Agnostic.com

31 5

What is something (besides religion) commonly believed to be true that is actually not?

My favorite example of this is the "plants-good, meat-bad" nonsense so prevalent in the mainstream media. Many of the so-called examples you see supporting this position are based on observational epidemiology, and a good dose of religious woo-woo specifically from the Seventh Day Adventists.The link will take you to an article with some discussion of the role of the self-proclaimed SDA prophetess Ellen G. White. If you are not familiar with her role in the position of the SDA's on nutrition, and the role the church plays to this day, you should learn about it. (Note you can find better articles than this one, but it gets the point across. Do your own investigation)

[isupportgary.com]

Mitch07102 8 Aug 30
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

31 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

Collectivism is good, individualism is bad.

Neither one is intrinsically good or bad. It all depends on whether there's any moderation involved. Extremism is bad.

13

As I recently posted on another thread.

Whenever ANYONE having ANYTHING to do with law enforcement says, "If you're innocent, you have nothing to worry about."

That is one of the singlemost dishonest statements of all time.

Innocent until guilty is a great concept, but we’ve all seen those movies where evidence is planted to discredit people or get the collar rates up.
Movies are scary!

@girlwithsmiles It happens far more frequently in real life than it does in the movies.
Especially for POC.
If you are a person of color, proving your innocence is a much more difficult job than
the prosecution has in proving your guilt.
There is no "presumption of innocence" in the system for people of color, or the poor.

That is one of the ways this nation has always favored rich white people over everyone else.

I really wouldn’t know, but i guess it comes down to that old sociology question, ‘Who polices the police?’. If true, that’s even more scary!

@girlwithsmiles It's not just the police. It's the legal system and the courts, too.
Prosecutors have been known to overlook evidence which would clear an accused
person, simply because they want convictions to make their records look better.
Judges rule similarly.
If anyone holding office is subjected to having to run for it, there will always be those
who believe in "win at any cost". They're more interested in maintaining their positions and power than they are in the law and people's innocence.
Poor people, people of color, and women have all historically been victimized by the
system. This has been happening since those institutions were instituted.

Countless people, both men and women, have been put to death for crimes they
didn't commit.
The news is full of stories about black men being exonerated after having been
convicted of crimes they never committed.
Organizations like The Innocence Project are kept busy re-examining cases where
prosecutorial misconduct, mishandling of evidence by the police, jury tampering, etc., have resulted in numerous innocent people being convicted.

Not to mention the practice of "Civil Asset Forfeiture". The police can seize people's
property, citing "probable cause", or nothing at all, not bring charges against them, and
not have to return said property. The victims of these seizures have to retain legal counsel and sue for the return of their property, and they aren't always successful.
This is one method with which many departments have been supplementing their
annual budgets. This has been occurring for years.
Most of the time, they employ racial profiling when determining who to target.

There is so much that far too many Americans are completely unaware of.
Worse yet, some know and have no problem with it.

@KKGator i watched a program about a man who was black explaining how he and the police use profiling and why. It was very interesting. Have tried to find it since, but can’t unfortunately. (Oh, this was the UK, by the way).

@girlwithsmiles It happens far more frequently than most in those fields would care to admit.
People's rights are being trampled all the time.

@KKGator that’s very sad, I always think of police as people that protect us.

@girlwithsmiles Depending on circumstances, they still can be.
Unfortunately for some, that isn't always the case.

@KKGator yes, that’s sad. People who are BAM or have serious mental health problems seem to definitely have a different experience. But although I feel pretty safe in my Countries I’m afraid I have no desire to go to the US, even though I hear San Francisco especially is great.

@girlwithsmiles Can't blame you. Although, it's true, San Francisco is one of my most favorite cities.

10

Ummmmm. That Canadians are friendly people. LOL. I'm proof that isn't true.

And meh. I'm vegan but it's because I love animals, not for my health.

that's a good reason too

10

I am a proud vegetarian. Not because any church taught me to be one. I simply love my fellow animals, and I refuse to kill or eat them. 🙂

6

Good question. My gripe is the misconception that America is the land of equal opportunity. That's the delusion that a kid born and raised in Westchester has the same chance to become a doctor as a kid born in the ghetto.

All Countries are the same, a lot depends on who your parents are. There’s some weird misconception that the rich are better and more deserving than others, much like the beautiful. Hollywood and books perpetuate this. Many people are blinkered to other realities, it’s convenient to believe the recipe knowledge of mainstream media; plus it makes you part of the herd, which is comforting for people.

@girlwithsmiles We're touching on one of the reasons I'm so angry about the Bible and religion. The sin of my remote ancestor, Adam, makes me born evil. I didn't even know the guy..

@Aristippus i prefer Stevie Wonder’s Ebony and Ivory, much more healthy words to live by and not much to it 🙂

6

The USA is the greatest country in the world.

Sarcasm? If not just wondering how many Countries have you been to?

@girlwithsmiles "What is something commonly believed to be true that is actually not?"

@LovinLarge ah, sorry and thank you 🙂

6

Over the counter medications is 100% safe...

6

Art. Not works of art, but high art, the idea that some works of human craft are somehow 'spiritual' (another meaningless word) while others are mere crafts.

Organic. The idea that you can use a chemical from a plant, which probably evolved the chemical to kill animals in the first place, with safety. But a chemical devised in a lab and tested though the most stringent safety standards must be dangerous, ( OK, sometimes they are, but prove that all plants etc. are safe.)

5

As a personal choice, I don't eat mammals and I eat vegetarian more often than not.

The problem for me is not eating meat so much as it is how we treat animals prior to eating them. We evolved to be meat eaters, but we also evolved to have empathy and the ability to understand suffering.

A lion does not know that its prey suffers, we do. So, we must do all we can to make sure that animals used for our benefit do not suffer at our hand.

As far as our health, if we don't eat any animal protein, we need to make sure that we eat the right combinations of plants to get what we need. The problem isn't eating meat, it is eating too much of it and eating animals that are fed artificial diets and pumped up with antibiotics.

Your points are excellent, and yes, we do need to treat animals far better than we do. Whenever possible, which is nearly always, I purchase my meat from ethically run farms that practice regenerative livestock raising practices.

I am skeptical of the ability, long-term, so use supplements to offset what one misses by not eating animals. Evolution is smarter than us. I particularly worry about the lack of animal nutrients and the impact on brain function.

You may wish to read the book The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith. Lierre is a self-described radical feminist, whip-smart, and was a long-term vegan. It damaged her. The book is thoughtful and addresses all of the issues from nutrition to the ethics of eating animals.

@Mitch07102 The main reason that I have not gone full on vegetarian ( I would never even consider being vegan) is that I think we do need some meat in our diets. And, I am not disciplined enough to eat all the right combinations of what I would need to replace that meat. Also, I agree, human brains were able to evolve as they did because our pre-human ancestors ate meat.

The best way to ensure the ethical treatment of an animal is to do as you are, or to raise them one's self.

I have chickens and ducks, but I don't raise them for meat. I get too attached to animals and I could never kill something I have looked in the eyes, and named, and hugged, and most likely kissed on occasion 🙂.

They are first and foremost pets and secondarily supply me with more eggs than I know what to do with (I give a lot away). Which reminds me, one of my ducks laid a rather strange looking egg this morning and its still in my pocket. Last time I forgot an egg was in my pocket I leaned against the counter and got a not so nice gooey surprise. 😮

5

I like veggies and fruit... One doesn't need to base their diet on large amounts of meat to be healthy.

I luvs 'em !

5

Modern decorating practices:
Gray and white = classy (boring and conformist)
Brightly colored by individual taste = bad (express yourself!)

In case you’re wondering 😏

I am afraid that I am solidly boring 🙂

@RobinGray I don't know looks fine to me. 🤔😁

@RobinGray I love color!! That room is amazing

@Mitch07102 Maybe your favorite colors are Gray and white. I love color but at 1 time I had lots of Gray carpet and silver Gray walls. I'm in my yellow and blue period now.

@RobinGray Your floors are wonderful. Is your Room circular?

@Lorajay no it’s a panoramic picture. These are original floors from 1904.

@Lorajay a straighter shot

@Fred_Snerd that’s cool 😎

@RobinGray Wow , beautiful.

@Lorajay Gray, black, white.

@RobinGray Even without the curves they are beautiful floors.

@RobinGray, @Fred_Snerd Super cool way to change your color scheme.

4

That Trump has done more more for women and blacks than any other president.

4

My pet peeve is the myth that all chemicals are bad for you. Statements regarding products such as "does not contain chemicals" is misleading. Water (H20) is a chemical, for example.

Then people say, well I mean it doesn't contain bad chemicals. Well, water can be harmful if your lungs become full of it.

Okay, then they say I mean man-made chemicals...Yes, some substances are harmful and some are healthful, but not all chemicals are harmful. There are many naturally occuring substances (chemical elements) that harmful, and many combined chemical elements that are healthful.

Best just to list the ingredients and maybe add a statement as to whether any of the substances have been proven by scientists to be harmful. Some of the statements are misleading and people make assumptions by the way things are worded. Not all chemicals are bad.

I used to have a friend who tried everything Dr.Oz or Sally Jesse Raphael pushed.....her watchword was, "oh, but it's NAAATURAL! Yeah, okay, so is heroin, uranium, lead, asbestos, arsenic, cocaine, and etc.......

4

"You are what you eat. Your diet helps control the diversity and stability of you microbiome. If you eat a plant-based diet, studies show you are going to have a healthier microbiome with less inflammation and a lower risk of diseases like cancer.

"Also, you need to know your family history of disease, particularly cancer. Colon cancer is one of the most common cancers in the U.S. If a family member had it, you should be screened, potentially at a younger age and more often than those without a family history."

"Exercise is a key strategy for maintaining GI health and preventing disease like stroke, diabetes and cancer. Exercise is critical because it releases endorphins, decreases the levels of stress hormones in your body, and controls weight. It also helps reduce harmful substances like cytokines that cause inflammation and make cancer cells grow."

  • Carol Burke, M.D., a leading gastroenterologist at Cleveland Clinic. Shape Magazine, Sept. 2020

I respectfully suggest you read The Carnivore Code by Dr. Paul Saladino. Not because I'd expect you to eat more meat (I recall it causes you inflammation. He discusses the gut microbiome issue. You may rethink Dr. Burke's POV.

@Mitch07102

My father died of colon cancer at 51.

@LiterateHiker Sorry to hear it.

4

Bottled water is always safe.

Or bottled water is safer than what comes out of your tap.

I say this even though I survived the Milwaukee Cryptosporidium outbreak.

4

In order to see whether a particular nutrition science theory is good or bad for you you must not only study the science but how it exactly applies to you. Also there must be much self testing done in a science way. Mixing that difficulty with religion makes that process, I imagine, impossibly confusing, but would probably cause people to give up thinking and just accept in general terms what other people with different internal biology have found . Useless to anyone else. In fact all science needs to be applied very carefully to each individual. That is why i promote PERSONAL science. Think for yourself and do not accept anyone else's conclusions.

3

There's actually quite a bit of research demonstrating that the less animal products you consume over your lifetime, the longer you live. Plus, it's just evil to support factory farming. Here is a simple to follow video of research reviews by a world-renowned nutritionist:

& here is a good research article: [ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - it is a study ABOUT adventists, not BY adventists. It was actually conducted by several Ph.D's & M.D.'s.
Nunya Level 6 Aug 31, 2020

Regarding factory farming, I agree.

Regarding longevity, not. I am starting my workday so will have to come back to this study. I can almost guarantee that it is based on observational epidemiology and there are a number of confounders.

Just a tidbit for you: People in Hong Kong lead the world in meat consumption, and they are long-lived. If meat is "bad" for you, how can this be? Maybe there are other factors at work?

@Mitch07102 Yes I know. And the people who still consume the traditional diet in Okinawa eat small amounts of meat as well. The trend across studies shows: 1. that the more whole foods you eat, the longer you live; and 2. the less meat you regularly consume, the longer you live. These are statistical trends, that does not automatically prove that eating less meat is the sole indicator of longevity. But, in cross longitudinal studies, the meat consumption factor appears to be statistically significant.

@Nunya Actually, not.

"Essentially, the investigators concluded that the evidence for adverse outcomes associated with meat consumption is too weak to recommend reducing its consumption.2"

[peterattiamd.com]

3

To me all the arguments about healthier or not, are moot points.

I have chosen a plant based diet for many years. Why ? Because I love animals, am concerned about their welfare, and believe they have as much a right to their alloted lives as any humans.
The generally accepted processing from farm-to-package, for all so called "food" species is inexcusably cruel, and environmentally disastrous.
Even casual research will yield numerous supporting facts on these points.

I see any health benefits (which become obvious after eliminating flesh), as an added bonus !
Huzzah

Actually, casual research, and more rigorous research, will counter much of what you say. Nonetheless, if a plant-based diet works for you, good.

@Mitch07102 Predictable response. This debate long ago became like the ones in politics. True or not, folks are able to find whatever it is they need to support their views. Onward ...

@evergreen "Essentially, the investigators concluded that the evidence for adverse outcomes associated with meat consumption is too weak to recommend reducing its consumption.2"

[peterattiamd.com]

@Mitch07102 The animals who are dying beg to differ.

@evergreen In order for humans to live, other living things must die. It isn't nice, and yes factory farms are awful, but even the strictest vegans cause death. It isn't nice, but it is reality.

You may wish to read The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith. Lierre is brilliant, intense, a self-described radical feminist, and one-time staunch vegan. She severely impacted her health. She does a very good job addressing the ethics of eating meat.

@Mitch07102 "and yes factory farms are awful, but ... "
"Who gives a shit, right ? - it's not effecting you "

Your opinion has been noted ...

@evergreen order all of my animal protein from farms that practice regenerative agriculture practices, organic, grass-fed, etc. I make no apologies for eating animals.

3

Your support of a meat-based diet is about as intelligent as advocating for the continuation of fossil fuel for energy. There are many sensible reasons for adopting a plant-based diet, one of which is health (for us and the planet we call home). Grow up, move on, the only consistency in this life is change.

I am grown up. Read The Carnivore Code chapter where there is a discussion of the actual impact on the climate. It is different than what you self-righteously assert.

i agree I love my meat based diet but eating more veggies and having meatless days is a good thing for the body and the planet

@Mitch07102 Nope. I believe in science. I suppose you don't wear a mask either?

@ReadyforaChange Actually, I do.

Don't confuse dogma with science. Nutrition is full of the former.

@Mitch07102 @Mitch07102 Good for you, wearing a mask is a responsible and adult thing to do. FYI I have researched for 20 years. I am never eating meat again. PERIOD.

@ReadyforaChange I have researched for 60 years and live it it. Impossible to obtain necessary nutrients from plants, plus plants contain lectins that are damaging to plant predators to protect themselves from being eaten, such as gluten. Read The Plant Paradox, The Vegetarian Myth and The Vegan Betrayal and get back to me. As a doctor for over 45 years, have never met a vegan or vegetarian who didn't have significant nutritional issues.

3

I do not kill animals but I am still a meat eater. Animals are my friends and I think they know I do not kill them. OK, I confess. The squirrels on my roof could become an exception if they eat into my wires or mess with my car. I remind them of this in hopes that we stay friends.

3

Well, you know what they say.....

twill Level 7 Aug 30, 2020

Money talks, bullshit walks? 😂😁😱

2

Another one being toxic positivity culture. That if you just think happy thoughts over and over and have a positive outlook on life, your mental illness/disorders will be cured! And that it is just your perception of events that harms you, not the actual traumatic event itself! These people are so bloody ignorant and have either no or limited experience with trauma and need to take their shitty, well intentioned advice and shove it you know where.

2

I despise the New Age brigade that are all about all natural and no chemicals (all food has chemicals in it ya fools) and against pharmaceuticals. What a privileged position one must have if they can be healthy WITHOUT the use of medication. But to then use their own experiences and stigmatize those of us that need meds to live or function properly is a cowardly and immature approach to life. They add to the stigma of medication and make life for us non healthy people harder than it already is! THANKS ASSHOLES!! :/

2

Apparently that saturated fat leads to higher cholesterol. According to the movie, Fat it’s not true at all. The idea of not eating fat is so ingrained into our culture now though, I remember loving dripping out of the grill pan as a child.
Here’s the movie trailer:

The lipid theory of heart disease has been disproven repeatedly. Natural fats are fine. Treat all industrial oils like poison. They are.

@Mitch07102 that’s interesting, thanks.

@girlwithsmiles You are welcome.

I am one of those rare people that many years ago (over 20) lost a good amount of weight and have kept it off. At 65, my weight is good, I exercise regularly, and my biomarkers are excellent. I have the strength of a much younger man. I'm not bragging; it saddens me that so many people, because of their lifestyle, suffer ill-health. I've already lived to an older age than my father and grandfather.

When asked "what should I do", I advise:

-Keep your weight check. Be rigorous about this. If you slip and your weight goes up 2 or 3 pounds, stop eating until it comes back down. You won't die 🙂
-Maintain strength. It is essential. Sarcopenia is a risk as you age.
-Avoid the standard American diet, it is called SAD for a reason. There are many ways to do this, though I strongly advise against a vegan diet. I see too many people who at some point develop serious nutrient deficiencies. The initial good feelings and improved health are usually because they were eating poorly, maybe using too many substances, etc.
-Two absolutes regarding diet: no added sugar or any of its equivalents, sparse on other refined carbs (best to avoid, bread and pasta are not your friends), and repeating what I said above, treat industrial oils like poison. Coming into the1900's, they were used to lubricate machinery. Why would you eat them?
-Calories matter, but if you are eating nutrient-dense real food it is easy to avoid over-eating
-Alcohol and drugs are not your friends
-Practice fasting on a regular basis. I frequently go a day or two without eating, and nearly always eat in no more than a 6-hour window. It keeps insulin low, which is important. When fasting for a full day or more, drink water with sodium and potassium chloride (no salt) in it, about a teaspoon of each in a couple of liters of water. It is important to keep your electrolytes up.

@Mitch07102 very interesting, I too try to be careful with sugars and regard a lot of what is popular in supermarkets as non foods, although i do have a weakness for crisps as a treat and enjoy 3 cubes of good quality, ( fair trade), dark chocolate with my afternoon coffee most days. I used to have a spray bottle and sprayed virgin olive oil instead of marg, but that’s gone. (Here’s an article about sodium vs salt that i found informative [sodiumbreakup.heart.org].

@girlwithsmiles Good for you, and a controlled amount of just about anything, like dark chocolate, so long as you are reasonably good is fine. Just like a glass of wine is OK, even though I advocate no alcohol at all as optimal for health. Of course, rare is the person who actually just has "a glass of wine." Good luck.

2

That sex is some kind of dirty and disrespectful thing unless it's only pursued within the context of a committed relationship
That being a virgin in your 20s makes you a dysfunctional reject
That attraction is some kind of universal and static thing and that some people will be eternally alone unless people give up on their natural physical inclinations
And all 3 of those things are due in part, to religion and it's repressive attitude towards the desires of the flesh and dutiful attitude towards marriage and children.

1

Trump supports the troops

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:529232
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.