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Carl Sagan’s wife on death & life…

“When my husband died, because he was so famous and known for not being a believer, many people would come up to me-it still sometimes happens-and ask me if Carl changed at the end and converted to a belief in an afterlife. They also frequently ask me if I think I will see him again. Carl faced his death with unflagging courage and never sought refuge in illusions. The tragedy was that we knew we would never see each other again. I don't ever expect to be reunited with Carl. But, the great thing is that when we were together, for nearly twenty years, we lived with a vivid appreciation of how brief and precious life is. We never trivialized the meaning of death by pretending it was anything other than a final parting. Every single moment that we were alive and we were together was miraculous-not miraculous in the sense of inexplicable or supernatural. We knew we were beneficiaries of chance. . . . That pure chance could be so generous and so kind. . . . That we could find each other, as Carl wrote so beautifully in Cosmos, you know, in the vastness of space and the immensity of time. . . . That we could be together for twenty years. That is something which sustains me and it’s much more meaningful. . . . The way he treated me and the way I treated him, the way we took care of each other and our family, while he lived. That is so much more important than the idea I will see him someday. I don't think I'll ever see Carl again. But I saw him. We saw each other. We found each other in the cosmos, and that was wonderful.”

― Ann Druyan

JonnaBononna 7 Dec 23
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19

It became obvious to both of us that my husband was dying soon. When I asked him questions about services he always responded with the fact that it didn't make any difference because he wouldn't know about it.

Funerals are for the living and help us say goodbye so we had a party with everything but speakers and a preacher. I always felt he would have liked what we did. I also know I will never see him again. Occasionally I wish I had been a more attentive wife but I know I made him happy and he knew he made me happy. His last words were I love you Jo. No one can ask for more than that.

I agree that funerals are for the living. My mother died of covid last year less than a year after my (estranged) sister died unexpectedly. We yielded to my sister's step-son to make her funeral arrangements-but he never did, thus when my mother died, I treated her service as if it was for both her and my sister, and that helped. I am an atheist to the core (as are most of the members of my immediate family) but what gave us the most comfort was to meet my mother's final wishes as close to what she had expressed as we could, which meant, in part, having a minister lead the service. It is funny that having a ceremony like that really does help one move forward. The grief I felt for both women was prolonged way too much because of the delay in holding the service. In my mother's case it was 16 months after her death. In my sister's case it was 26 months. I needed that final good bye to move past the grief.

14

This is how true adults think and speak.

14

Beautiful.

12

Thank you. My late partner was from Iran and a Moslem family. She was the only daughter with 4 brothers but her mother pushed, asking questions about everything. When she was young she thought religion silly. She saw what happened after the revolution to her country and realized it was also dangerous. At 64 she contracted an incurable brain tumor and opted for our states Death with Dignity program. It was an easy death and she knew she was lucky. From the very beginning she understood the life - death connection and accepted it without reservation. I felt as she. We had 16 wonderful years together. After she died I called the University of Wash., she had signed up for the willed body program and they came and got her. I too have signed up for this program. We both strongly felt life must go on. Had I died first I would have wanted her to find another and she, I. Actually I am glad she is not here to see the state of the world and the horrors wrought by 'silly' religions.

12

Wonderful words there by Ann Druyan. The real tragedy is that when non-believers like Carl Sagan die the believers start making up stories about them and claim they converted at the last minute. To me it is proof that they are jealous liars.

Yes, I have read that too that Sagan converted at the last minute. Converted meant accepted Jesus, none other.

Well, let's face it: truth and facts aren't exactly many religious people's strong suit.

12

I truly doubt most actual Atheists falter in their rationality at the end of life. Agnostics on the other hand may try to cover their bases. My Dad, though we never really discussed it, was I believe an Agnostic. At the end of his life he was fine with pastors coming to his room and praying with him. But I never remember him praying on his own. I have no illusion of any afterlife or savior.
Imagine some place with the billions of humans who have inhabited the earth! Just the thought makes me sick and claustrophobic! 😂

And you have to wonder, if they are so sure that this place is so amazing, why are they so hesitant to go there?

I have seen atheists who are in name only and have seen them converting in marriage, love and what they called enlightenment. I have watched atheists here who don't believe in God but they follow all other Christian traditions like Christmas tree, naming children after Biblical names, holiday lights, gift giving etc. To me they are not freethinkers. You cannot be a designer atheist who has one foot in the religious world.

@St-Sinner agnostics are more likely to waver than atheists, in my experience. After all , if your position is ' I don't know' it's easier to change your mind.

Agreed

@St-Sinner many of those traditions are rooted in pagan rituals and family traditions and have little to do with the religious aspect. Just as Labor Day and Presidents Day have little to do with either for most people. I myself love Thanksgiving Day, not because I am thankful to some invisible control freak. I enjoy being thankful to the joys of family get together, my health and the interesting life I have had. Nothing to do with god or religion, but of family and friends. I would hate to have my lack of religion affect my joy of relationships. If I did, I would be no better than those religious groups who shun non believers, or LGBT family members because of their beliefs. I would hate to be associated with them in any way.

@Barnie2years

The people I know celebrate it as Christmas, not as a pagan holiday. They were not brought up as pagans, the majority does not even know where the roots are. They are doing it because the Christian traditions are deep rooted in the minds. If you cannot get out of them, you are not a freethinker. We can defend and justify all we want but walking away is walking away. You cannot be a "designer atheist".

If you are celebrating Christmas, you are a half-atheist to me and certainly not a freethinker. We can justify and feel good about what we are doing but Christmas is about Jesus for 2,000 years. I haven't seen anyone celebrating Christmas other than Christians.

Losing friends and relationships? Try to have an atheist function, invite your religious friends and see if they show up to not lose you.

@St-Sinner I guess it’s a good thing your opinion means nothing to me then! But thanks for showing that you are the reason I took a long time to call myself an Atheist: you are as ragging mad at Christians as the worst of them are towards you! Lucky, as is evident on this site, Atheists come in many denominations and don’t require hating those who don’t think like they do to support their non belief.

@Barnie2years

Don't bother commenting. Your ignorance is annoying, first it was about Bernie, now it is stupidity. Don't show off any more. I cannot even forgive because you not 10 years old.

8

I have two kids that I love dearly. I could never imagine if they didn’t do everything I say then I would put them somewhere of extreme torture for eternity. That just makes no sense especially if you’re god and you actually made them have desires to actually sin

Exactly. That wouldn't make you a loving father by any stretch of the imagination

Oh, but if you arranged for your Favorite child to be tortured and killed so the rest of your kids could bypass your punishment IF the rest of your kids bow and scrape to your favorite.

Then you should have All your kids taken away and be locked up in the loony bin.

@RussRAB

That too tortured, dragged through the streets by a mere petty mortal called Marcus Pontius Pilatus. I like strong leaders.

@St-Sinner Clever parody there. Who said he liked people who were not prisoners of war.

@yvilletom

Not borrowed his line. It is mine.

8

perfect

7

A wise and thoughtful lady who is so positively human.

5

I am just in love with the guy and hats off to his loving wife who stood strong by him and his beliefs. How many of us have a union of minds like this? The majority is wrapped in property, money, vanities of love like gifts + flowers, taking out to places, showing off love, relationship, pda etc until the freaking near end.

I read that a family friend pastor was asking Carl and his wife until the end to believe in and accept Jesus and rest in peace and Carl Sagan kept saying he did not need belief, he needed proof.

Only the lucky have a partnership like this. If I dreamt, this would be this partnership.

5

Beautiful

I agree

5

That was very nice

Tejas Level 8 Dec 23, 2021
4

I'm 78 and I've told my son that when I die, there is a letter for him in the safe deposit box. I told him I want no funeral, no casket, no headstone, no visitations, no speeches, no celebration of life. Just put my ashes in an empty tuna can and be done with it.

Very well put and myfeelings as well…

I have no one, so I don't even think about. They can do what they will. It doesn't matter.

Mine is prepaid cremation with pretty much the same general directions. Only I have biodegradable urns with soil and a seed to plant which may grow a Maple tree if nothing eats it!

3

As someone who just lost the love of his life, I can relate to and appreciate what Ann said. It would be nice, but I can't believe what I can't believe. Thiests think it is easy being unable to believe. Not true. I wish all of those fairy tales were true. That is what makes the loss so much tougher. I can't buy into that "you'll see her again", blah, blah, blah. Reality is tough, uncompromising and a MF.

I'm so sorry for your loss. Yes, that is the bitch of it. The fairy tale story would be lovely, which is why it was created in the first place!

3

They met , matched, realized what they had together and made the most of it. Lucky...and smart them !
What else do you need? To meet again?...Highly unlikely.

Good read btw, thank you Jonna

twill Level 7 Dec 24, 2021
2

That's fine. It doesn't matter what anyone believes; Whatever the reality is, that's what it is. There's plenty of indicators reincarnation is real, at least for some people. Maybe that's an illusion; believe what you will.

God? Not a clue. So that's the attitude I'll have on my death bed. If I'm extinguished, fine, I'll never know. If I move on in some fashion, great.
People like Mrs. Sagan, in my opinion, should have an agnostic outlook and an open mind, for what it's worth. I don't think there's any way to prepare for death; it just happens,. No matter what our attitude is. So might as well have a good attitude and stay alert.

I read that Steve Jobs prepared for death, refused morphine and wanted to experience the last breath. When it came, he said... "Oh wow, Oh wow.. here it comes".

@St-Sinner Cool. When my time comes, I want do what Aldous Huxley did and time it just right and drop about 10 hits of acid a few hours beforehand. I'll be tripping like a motherf--ker!

@Storm1752

"When cancer brought him to his death bed, he asked his wife to inject him with “LSD, 100 µg, intramuscular.” He died later that day."

He was probably at home and he had his wife give the acid. I am not sure if it is legal. Also he did not die immediately, he died later in the day. So if he was not under morphine, it must be painful. Correct me if I am wrong.

@St-Sinner I just read his wife's account, and to the contrary, the doctors said it was the most peaceful death, under the circumstances and given his condition, they'd ever seen.

1

As an agnostic I told my wife and daughter I want no funeral and no wake .In regards to my father who died recently at 105 I complied with his wishes and held a wake ,church services and funeral .We should never think of ourselves but of the person who passes away and what they wanted

I don't know... funerals are for the living. The dead may have had certain expectations, but they won't even know what happens.

1

Wonderful words. ☀️

1

"Contrary to the fantasies of the fundamentalists, there was no deathbed conversion, no last-minute refuge taken in a comforting vision of a heaven or an afterlife. For Carl, what mattered most was what was true, not merely what would make us feel better." [ffrf.org]

She talked about religion and science quite widely but I couldn't find anywhere specifically including on her Wikipedia that she was an atheist. Maybe just a non-declared non-believer?

1

This is so on point about living your life with meaning and values - how you live your life, what you contribute, how you treat others, is what makes life worth living and is a legacy. We have our memories of those we've lost to keep with us, build new memories with those we love, live up to our own expectations, and make what difference we can - it's enough.

1

Thank you for sharing this. I think it is lovely.

It really is!!

1

Wonderful.

0

Great words. Thank you.

0

Lovely!!

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