"85% of people who call themselves Jew, have no Hebrew blood what so ever. "
No such thing as Hebrew blood despite their obsession with geneology.
Hebrew peoples are Semetic people, like the Philistines and Moabites (whose dna is still about)

Judasim is a religion, not a race of people. The reality that that reigion tracks geneology and use their own decent and bloodlines as part and parcel of that, does not make them magically a Race.

Proof?
I could convert to Judaism, think you can convert to Black, Asian, Native, or Latino?

Also comparing a genocide to a greater genocide committed over a longer period of time does not lessen the genocide attempt. Hitler was State sponsored genocide, as was Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and so on.

Where do I start?
Definitions; English is a living language words change, are added or modified by usage eg. "Chauvinist" modern usage says sexist but it was originally "an excessive devotion to any cause, person or ideal" This does not mean that the modern definition is wrong, just narrow.
So your baptist minister told you about "fake Jews!" Ffs really why the fuck would anyone want to join that club? A history of oppression and persecution "so lets pretend to be them" I suggest you keep wearing that aluminium hat.

@273kelvin
I am well versed in linguists. I was a teen when I was a babtist. No tin foil hat needed. English lives with about 550k terms. The French lexicon exists with about 250k terms. 48% of the the Eglish terms derive from French terms. So like the entire French lexicon lives in the English Language. I am very knowledgable in cognate pathology, etymology, morphology, and semantics. Sorry, not apart of the tin foil hat group, i keep an open mind an look at facts..... investigative jurnalism using systemic morphemes. I follow descriptive linguists because I studied under 1st generation chompsky.

@273kelvin, @Davesnothere
Ok so you know history how well do you know the bible? The hebrew people are most likely descended from the hyksos. The proto canaanite laguage and hebrew language are almost indistiguishable in written form. The jewish religion, is a geniological religion because back in the day they believed in reincarnation. Every 7 generations your spirit was reincarnated. The tree of life. Judaism is a male centric religion, the symbol of the star of david or sixpointed star shows the union of man an women. Triangle up represents male, triangle down represents female.

The jew have always been about themselves, and yes you can convert, but you will always be goyim. Goyim are slave to the jew, and the jew can do whatever they want to the goyim. The Askenazi Jew have no hebrew blood, if you have no hebrew blood, then you are not jew. The judiac religion is centered around yahweh and the covenant with the hebrew, and the 12 tribes of Israel, or the 12 signs of the Mazzorath.

You can call the color black blue, but if you are not black then you are blue.

So yes judaism is a religion. However it was designed for an ethnic group of people, not a race. An ethnic identity that have their own religion and are required to marry within the jewish/ hebrew bloodline. Though many stopped following that rule, but most do. Ethnical purity.

Yes they are Semetic, and speak an afro-asiatic language. As afore mention several scolars hold the hebrews evolved with the canaanites out of the Hyksos.

Shall we continue??

@Etre History is always written by the victors, but the issue is not the selectivness of historians, but the rampant evidence of the slaughter of millions.

You keep referencing "Fake Jews"
Would that not make each and every convert to Xtianity a fake as well, by that logic?

Juadism was and very much is a tribal religion, with tribes within tribes among them.
Only in certain sects of judaism would " Goyim are slave to the jew, and the jew can do whatever they want to the goyim." be viable.
That is kind of like calling all Christians Westboro Baptist or all Muslims Wahibbist isn't it?

You seem to carry a strong anti-semetic streak or feeling, is that so?

@Davesnothere
Not at all, my friend. Well versed in biblical chronology. I was a devout christian and believer. My uncle was a pastor, his father was a pastor. I have priests in my historical lineage. My last name denotes a priest/town/city/enclosure in the Anglo-Saxon vernacular.

I am versed in esoteric history and occult soceities.
Semiotics and Symbology

The premise of fake is derived from the historical knowledge and understanding how the kazars propgated their jewish ancestory, and entire populations of people support a historical lie.

The Balfore declaration set up the state of Israel for the jews to return to there biblical home. These jews are European, not Hebrew or Semetic.

So if it bothers you that I use the term Fake, well no apology given. Fake refers to the fact that they are not hebrew, they are not blood. I know its not their fault, social conditioning. But States know the History, and the world is being pushed into a war over a lie. To propagate the judiac/christian ideology.

The land was puchased by the English Crown through the Rothschild bank of England in what... 1945 circa. The palestinians have been pushed back, and there ancestrial lands taken from them for decades. Look at what is happening now.

Etre: You are a perfect example of a brainwashed dilletante who finds rubbish on the internet that supports his warped theories. From a baptist minister of all people.
That truly is rich in an agnostic community. You should seek conversation on a site like the Aryan Brotherhood, or even better, how about David Duke?

@Davesnothere, @Trueblueroo, @273kelvin

@Davesnothere, @Trueblueroo, @273kelvin

I do not know much about this guy but he lays out the facts and gives sources. Have Fun!!

@273kelvin, @Trueblueroo, @Davesnothere

@Etre A. Consider your source.
"Forbidden History is a British fringe history series modeled more or less explicitly on America Unearthed and now airing on the American Heroes Channel."

Second, talking about the Bolshenik revolution is a strawman as regards the holocaust,

your also using Vladimir Putin as a source with authority, someone telling you the truth?

"Putin was born in Leningrad in the Soviet Union. He studied law at Leningrad State University, graduating in 1975.[7] Putin was a KGB foreign intelligence officer for 16 years, rising to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel before resigning in 1991 to enter politics in Saint Petersburg. He moved to Moscow in 1996 and joined President Boris Yeltsin's administration, rising quickly through the ranks and becoming Acting President on 31 December 1999, when Yeltsin resigned."

So let me get this straight, you are MORE willing to believe that an intel officer the rank of Colonel (in the Damn KGB/FSB) of an adversairial Nation State, than say our own troops on the ground?

"The American liberators made sure that residents of Dachau and other towns were forced to confront the horrors of the concentration camps. According to Harold Marcuse, in his book "Legacies of Dachau," after the liberation "a group of Dachau Nazi elite was forced to tour the Dachau crematorium on 8 May 1945." There they were made to look at the naked, emaciated bodies of the innocent victims of Nazi barbarity, piled up in the mortuary room right next to the gas chamber. Young boys in the Hitler Youth were brought to the camp and forced to look at the corpses on the Death Train."

You seem very quick to adopt an Anti-Semetic position, based upon assertions.

@Davesnothere

When did I ever state the burnt offering did not happen. I think there is some confusion. Putin is confirming my previous statement about the "fake" jew argument. The Ashkenazi. You think I am anti semetic, however the issue is these Ashkenazi are not semetic, they are from Kazaria. Well known in the history books.

Pretty sure that is not a Brittish documentary. I think it is independently produced. I suggest you watch then form your conclusions. He gives tons of sources.

I have never seen that doc till a few hours ago. I already have the knowledge base. But this doc filled in a lot of unknown data.

Think. You are smart.

@Davesnothere

For the record, Jew/Jewish/Hebrew refers to an ethnicity of peoples who follow the judaic religion born from the covenant made with the supreme deity Yahweh. Yahweh made the covenant with the Hebrews and their lineage. This is why the Hebrew/Jewish term goyim refers to non Jewish people, not of the covenant with the creator. The Jewish/Hebrew language is Afro-Asiatic.

The Khazars are not of Hebrew descent, and therefore are goyim, not of the covenant. The Khazars lost their home land in Khazaria due to war. They were expelled and resettled in Russia where they took on the Jewish identity and religion. The Kharzars are a Turkic ethnicity and spoke an Altaic language. After taking on the Jewish Identity they merged hebrew with other language groups to form Yiddish.

The Bolsheviks are these faux-pas Jews, who took over in Russia around 1918. Through their beliefs in judaism and their false misconception of being hebrew, part of the covenant, they began to ethnically kill the goyim, or indigenous peoples from Russia and Ukrain. Some total the numbers around 100 mil between Lenin and Stalin. Governmental policy was written to protect the Askenazim Jew, while the ethnic cleansing, sacrifice, was offered of the goyim unto Yahweh.

@Etre Your INSIDE the religion already "Yahweh made the covenant with the Hebrews and their lineage. This is why the Hebrew/Jewish term goyim refers to non Jewish people"
To non Hebrew people, by blood, by lineage.

Judaism is a religion, its adherents are Jews. Hebrews are a Semtic people.
You can convert to Judaism (Jewish)
You cannot convert to Hebrew, they become your adopted tribe, and you are welcomed UNLESS your in hard fundie Judaism (then your Goyim)

@Davesnothere

I understand you knowledge of American Jewery, i know jews, i know the bible, you are dancing around the facts. Not all jews are hardcore. The history is right in front of your face. You are taking up for a mass manipulation, Israel is for the hebrews not the Ashkenazi. Several jews have told me about the Ashkenazi. The covenent was not with them. I know the bible very well. They are not real fake. Protocols of the Elders of Zion, look how they used their judaism to take control of Russia and comit genocide.

They brought the holocaust on themselves.

For every action there is an equal and oposite reaction. As above so below.

We are governed by the laws of motions.

Stop skating around facts, why are you fighting this fight.

The judaic religion is the root of all of our problems, what religions control the paradigm.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam

Yahwehism

Any questions??

The stage is being set for war, and you are defending the root cause!!

@Etre I just read most of the posts & waited to see how things "turned out", until now. "They brought the Holocaust on themselves." ??? Are you fucking serious?!? & you are going to use the "Protocols..." to base your crap on???? If there is a war I know one thing. I'm not on your side, you suck! The "Covenant" has nothing to do with those many that converted, they were considered Jewish by the countries they lived in, which brought down all the same disgusting bigotry that you show here. Please, don't pretend that you used to be xtian, by your actions & beliefs you prove it in so many ways. Now I have to go shower because reading your twisted 'history' has made me nauseous!

@phxbillcee

You look at things from a very linear path. I look at things in cycles. Life is not linear. Everything around us is in motion, cyclical. Those jews in the burnt offering were not jewish by blood. They where raised in the deception as the deception was given to mankind.

Look at what the Jews are doing to the Palistinians. Look at what Saudi Arabi is doing to Yemen, what 250k gone to date.

I am not condoning and or supporting Hitler and his actions. I am not a racist by any facts of any matter. I am a student of history, i look at facts. I call the kettle black. I have read Treblinka, i made it to the 7th chapter and had to stop. I was crying, i felt the emotion and pain of what occured. It deeply moved me.

You can call this warped history all you want. Ignorance does not make you right. I am not saying the act of sacrifice was right. But the Ashkenazim Jews called it a holocaust, a burnt offering unto god.

The Ashkenazim Slaughtered, murdered, sacrificed, around 100 million Russians and Ukrainians. Let me repeat that, 100 million between Stalin and Linen.

Hitler was an evil man. But he did not start out that way. He was an Artist. And a Brave Soldier. He learned about Ugenics from American Scientists. This is where his great race ideas came from. He was also Greatly envolved with esoteric soceities. Something you are not well versed in Secret Societies and Esoteric History.

There is nothing that can be done about the past. You and others have learned more about the history than most people on this planet living right now!! It is happening right in front of your face, but you can not see it. You are blind by your knowledge.

Albert pike wrote about the 3 world wars, and the 1st two happened as he wrote his Morals and Dogma for his Masonic Brothers.

You and the common herd watch history unfold not understanding the unseen movements behind the curtain. You believe history unfolds in an existential manner. And for most it does, except for the world stage.

Judaism and Christianity both have been used to supress human consciousness. Still being used to flock the Sheep to this day.

Do you know what a Papal Bull is? Papal Bulls are very old, they go way back. Papal Bulls are Spells, Craft Magic. They were written on infant human flesh for about 1500 years, until 1880s or so. I can explain the magic here, but I am not going to.

Its not about what you know, its about what you do not. If you choose to run the common consciousness, then so be it.

I am a student of History, my familial leanage traces back almost 1000 years. I do not care what you think. I care about what it is that I know. What I have researched. What I have been taught. What I have learned.

The federal reserve is not federal. Never has been. The United States is Bankrupt.

Israel cares not for the humans they murder. Yet I do not see you crying wolf for them. You look at the evidence for the ritual slaughter of the 6million Ashkenazim, and you see a foul but question not. You know something is wrong. Vast amounts of people were murdered in your eyes as a non believer. But to those who believe, the Ashkenazim call it a Holocaust. A burnt offering unto God/Yahweh.

The Ashkenazim Slaughtered all of those Russians to usurp control and protect themselves. Do I hear you crying foul for those 100 million Russian and Urkranian souls. Nope, you want to pick an argument with me because I showed how in what is called Yin/Yang Magic, the Karma was brought back upon the Ashkenazi.

I can show you videos right now of the Askenazim in Israel who talk about the time coming when they will be given 100 Goyim as Slaves. And you cast stones at me!! For pointing out the Facts.

I can show you video of jews in Jeruselem talking about the Palistians as if they were nothing. And you cast stones at me.

The Khazar took on the Jewish Identity and Religion to hide their nationality. They were not given that Identity they took it. And the formed a language.

The Covenent has to do with the Hebrews. Now do not be confused.... I am not saying its real, but its how these people think. Jews have committed as much attrocities on the world stage as anyone else. In fact some sects still practice ritual sacrifice. But you are without knowledge.

Therefore you judge.

There is so much more to cover here. You are versed in common consciousness alright. And if you can not see what is happening right now, then so be it.

@phxbillcee

@phxbillcee

@phxbillcee

@phxbillcee

@phxbillcee

@phxbillcee

Let me share this with you, so I might sleep in peace instead of disgust.

Isis- virgin birth to Horace ~ did miracles, healed sick, crucified resurrected.

Ra ~ sun god who merged with Horus

El ~ Canaanite/Hebrew main deity represented by the planet Saturn and so named El.

Do you see it??

Is..Ra..El

3 gods in one

The Trinity

Knowledge derives from the Greek Gnosis.

Gnosis ~ refers to mystical or inner spiritual learning.

Esoteric ~ hidden knowledge

Occult ~ hidden knowledge

The term God ~ derives from the term Zeus

Zodiac ~ a calendar used for measuring the 25900 year cycle of our Solar System on the Galactic Plain, also known as the Great Year and or the Plutonic Year.

4 main cults ~ Sun, Moon, Saturn, Dionysus

Christianity is Sun Worship ~ Astrotheologia

You can figure out the rest. Cults of the Snake #5.

They all exist to this day.

Did you ever ask yourself why they circle the black cube counter clockwise??

@Davesnothere The science of biology does not recognize the concept of race as it is commonly known among the laity. It turns out that there has always been a lot of mixing in the human population. It turns out that there is more natural variation of phenotypes within a so-called racial group than there is between these groups. This was understood even before modern DNA analysis, which now confirms the idea that there is only one race: the human race. Sorry to drag you into the semantic weeds, but I feel like the aforementioned race could benefit from a close parsing of this one bit of the lexicon. ?

@Flyingsaucesir I know and agree, I was using the term in the coloquial sense, (cultural, socital exc)

Dna also confirms the Bible in error, Moabites survived.

@phxbillcee

Its true I did not sleep yesterday... agreed.. and I associated All the Ashkenazim with the Bolsheviks, and that was wrong.

You do not know how secret societies have contibuted. We would not be where we are at if not for the Masons and their plight against Catholicism. The Medici also plaid a Great Role in Creating the Arts Education. The Rosicrucians Greatly advanced Cities with their Metropolitan Community Colleges.

I apologize to you for becoming upset and in being demeaning. I did not mean to associate all Ashkenazim with Bolshevism. I was wrong.

All of that data exists because it is known. To understand how mass manipulation was used to control populations, one first has to learn about the Egyptians and their Mystery Schools (occultism).

@skeptic99 , you are a mendacious liar. Period!

@Trueblueroo Oh, come now, Trueblue. Getting all huffed up and calling someone a "mendacious liar" proves nothing except you are in over your head.

@skeptic99

We all can agree on a round earth.

damn it stop being the voice of reason when we want to get mad about something

@engineer_in_nj aka "irrational"?

@FrayedBear no.

I never knew anyone that tattooed numbers like that on their arms for fun

@btroje It was also seen as a very major violation of scripture.

So it was not only a way to keep track of people, but to try to make them feel very violated in one more way.

@BufftonBeotch just to have a tattoo of any kind?

@btroje For the most orthodox it possibly was.

I have been to Auschwitz and the Holocaust Museum in DC. Very moving, saddening, but so crucial to understand it. My kids (19 and 22 at the time) chose the museum when we were in DC. I was so proud of them.

@HippieChick58 My daughter when visiting sites of historic tragedies is impacted very emotionally.

Ford's theater - Vietnam War memorial - Andersonville

She will go off by herself and weep quietly.

She's also fierce when the need comes though.

@BufftonBeotch Sounds like a success story Mom

@Storybook It mis a sad fact that they do not even teach American history correctly just remember what you were taught about the American Indian. Most likely nothing.

When I saw GW Bush on YouTube say 9/11 could have been an inside job. The State and bankers I trust the least.
Politic Authorities are the most inhumane, intimating, thieving and murdering group on the Planet.

I'm Not a Holocaust denier, just researched facts that tell a different story about 6 million Jews Murdered.

@Storybook
I have a different perspective in life.
Two most important things for happiness is your health and what you can forget.

There is ZERO correlation between Trump supporters and those who question the Holocaust. Most Trump supporters are Bible Thumpers who have had it pounded into their skulls by their Baptist preachers that "God will bless them who bless the Jews, and He will curse them who curse the Jews." Thus, most Trump supporters are ardent Christian Zionists who support neo-cons like John Bolton and are all for going to war against Iran, Iraq or anybody else Israel demands.

I naturally assume that most atheists are capable of critical thinking. If one can think their way out of believing in the Bible, they should also be able to understand the false propaganda supporting the absurd claims of the Holocaust. The Holocaust myth is no different than the Book of Exodus or Ruth. Just another Jewish fantasy designed to enable them to get over on the goyim and control them.

@skeptic99 You don't know the Christians in the South. Christians don't like the Jews because they killed Jesus. Evidently you haven't been paying attention. ☺

@Sticks48 I beg to differ. I was born in the South. Other than six years spent in the military I have lived my whole life in the South. I was indoctrinated in a Fundamentalist Baptist church. I know these people VERY well. Many are my family members.

There are few Jews living in the South; as a result, most Southern whites have no personal experience with Jews. The only stuff they think they know about Jews is what their preachers have told them from the Bible. They assume that the ancient Hebrews are just like the Jews living today in the US and Israel. None of these people blame the Jews for Jesus' death. Listen to what preachers like John Hagee are saying. They are indoctrinating southern and mid-western whites into Christian Zionism, which is why the Republican Party is so strongly pro-Israel in its foreign policy. Jerry Falwell spent fifty years indoctrinating his followers to be philo-Semites. Virtually all Evangelicals are like this. Sorry, Sticks, but you are decades behind the times. You believe in a stereotype that disappeared fifty years ago.

@skeptic99. I know what l see and what l hear.

@Sticks48 Do you live in the South, Sticks? I do. I grew up listening to Jerry Falwell. I know what these people are like. A lot of people in the North are familiar with Jews because Jews lie among them. They know them and come to dislike them. There are very few Southern Jews. As I have already pointed out, Southerners think of King David, and Moses and all the stories of the Old Testament when they think of Jews. It's all they have to go on. Southern and Mid-Western Evangelicals have no reason to dislike Jews because they have no personal experience with them.

@skeptic99 So, why do you dislike them? Your figures lie almost as much as you do. Please, go back to whatever fundie hole you crawled out of. This is not a matter of "looking at the evidence" so much as it is selective cherry picking of certain facts to promote your story. I still haven't heard you address the many US GI's that witnessed & liberated the camps. I have spoken to survivors, seen their tattoos, heard the anguish in their voices as they mourned lost family. You demean them & try to lessen the horror that was WWII & fascism! I can see why you voted for tRump, & I think you are disingenuous on your profile page as to why. I think you are birds of a feather!

Dachau was built before the war ever started. It was a prison where political prisoners, opponents of the Nazis, were sent. Communists, extreme liberals, Jews and other anti-Nazi activists were sent to Dachau. IT WAS NOT A DEATH CAMP. Proponents of the Holocaust now admit there were NO DEATH CAMPS ever located inside Germany. Proponents say the death camps were mostly located in Poland, which interestingly fell behind the Iron Curtain after the war so for decades it was impossible to go to any of the sites if you were from the West. Actually, the claimed death camps, like Auschwitz, were actually industrial work camps for the purpose of using slave labor (and local civilian labor) to produce goods for the war and the German military. This is why there were so many survivors from Auschwitz, such as both Elie Wiesel and his sister who were housed at two different "death camps," yet both of them survived both claimed death camps. Actually there were many thousands of survivors from these claimed factories of death. If six million Jews were actually gassed at these camps, then the state of Israel would not exist today, nor would there be so many Jews living in the US and Britain today.

Getting back to Dachau, it's worth noting that the only mass killings that ever took place there was when the US Army took the SS guards at the camp who had surrendered to the Americans and lined them up and machine-gunned them. Those who did not die immediately from the mass shootings were beaten to death with shovels by the Jewish inmates, including their guard dog. This actually happened. A book has been written about the liberation of Dachau and the mass killing of the German guards: "Dachau, Hour of the Avenger."[amazon.com]

"Alt truth" (a.k.a., a LIE).

Hitler greatly admired what European immigrants did in North America, clearing out an inferior people and taking their land to build a great new nation. The history of the US was the inspiration for most of his policies for Germany.

@skeptic99 Is that Hitler speaking or is that you speaking?

@Piece2YourPuzzle

It's true and known fact that Adolf Hitler studied many of the United States’ policies implemented against American Indian people, as models for how he would deal with Jewish people.

@Castlepaloma That's not my contention. Maybe you didn't "catch" the meaning of his words of which I replied. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

@Piece2YourPuzzle
I hope you are wrong, about what skeptic meant.

@CallMeDave I probably am. I shouldn't read into that statement like I did. I would ask him if he meant anything by it, but he doesn't seem to respond. Actually, I did ask him already.

This is typical. All the evidence you claim you have seen -- you have not seen. You have seen pictures of trivial things along with descriptions that suggest other things on a much grander scale. Once you really look at the evidence and engage your brain and ask basic questions, the Holocaust claims quickly fall apart.

@skeptic99 You can say that about most of history.

@PalacinkyPDX I never said it wasn't unique in history. I was just simply responding to the claims that there were "worse" atrocities.

@Piece2YourPuzzle

Yeah, like black salavery and native Americas genocide.

@skeptic99
Your assertion that "the foundational material supporting the holocaust comes from fictional accounts" is patently false and ridiculous. There are the testimonials of the survivors of the concentration camps, as well as those of the soldiers who liberated the camps. These are supported by films that were shot at the time. There are the artifacts, including written records and the camps themselves. The Germans (and Poles, and Hungarians, Armenians, Yuguslavians, and French, Begians, etc) were excellent records-keepers, and their own census data shows there were more than 6 million Jews in Europe before the holocaust.
By the way, to say you believe in climate science and evolutionary biology does not increase your credibility. Scientific facts are not things to be believed or disbelieved. Rather, the supporting evidence is to to be coldly assessed and either accepted or rejected based on its repeatability and logical cohesion. If the evidence stands up to scrutiny, then the conclusion it points to is accepted, always leaving the door open to modification if new evidence is brought to light. Emotion, belief, desire, caprice, and ideology have no place in either assessment of the evidence or analysis of the conclusion.
The emotion with which you write, together with your rejection of voluminous well-documented evidence leads me to suspect that you base your conclusions on ideology (conspiracy theory?) rather than facts. It sounds like you are looking for someone to blame the ills of the world (or your own misfortune?) on, and you have settled on a familiar old trope. Instead of wasting everyone's time with this nonsense, why don't you tell us what is really bothering you?

@Flyingsaucesir Well, Flyingsaucesir, I did not start this thread. HippieChick58 did. So the subject was not bothering me or on my mind. However, HippieChick 58 tossed it out there as a brief statement, a tactic it seems, to diss anyone who is not a conformist on this issue. It reminds me of Christians who say stuff like, "Jesus is REAL. Ain't it that a third of the people don't believe in Him?" I've looked at the evidence presented from both sides of this issue, and honestly, the arguments of the Christians, such as Creationists, are more convincing than those of the Holocaust promoters. Three things are going for the Holocaust story: 1. The story serves the interests of the establishment; 2. which results in massive group think; and 3. in most of the Western nations it is illegal to question any of the claimed truths about the Holocaust. So I get it that the majority of people believe in the Holocaust story. I'm surprised that a third of the people have doubts about it.

Regarding the evidence of the Holocaust, as I've pointed out already, the claims that were once made to support it years ago have been abandoned. Regarding Jewish global population figures over time, all the data I can find comes from Jewish sources, often directly from or cited from places like the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC or other organizations linked with the Holocaust. Data published in periodicals like Time Magazine cite the same sources. Pew Research has some numbers, almost all of which were based upon estimates and upon Jewish sources. One thing I did notice was there really were not that many Jews living in Germany, France and the rest of Western Europe at the start of the war. Most Jews fled Germany during the 1930s before the war started. The overwhelming majority of Europe's Jews lived in Poland, the rest of Eastern Europe and the USSR. The one issue that always sticks in my mind are the thousands and thousands of Jews who SURVIVED the Holocaust, who spent time at Auschwitz and other camps in Eastern Europe and who survived the ordeal and left Europe after the war and came to the US or Israel. If there was a methodical German industry devoted to the industrialized extermination of Jews, it was terribly inefficient.

@skeptic99 very well said. Stand by to be labelled a denyer, racist and nazi for stating some facts. I thought this site was for critical thinkers, maybe I was wrong.

@skeptic99, @TheMiddleWay I don't believe anyone is denying atrocities happened in the camps, but the scale is the question.

@TheMiddleWay Well, you're right there, a death camp is a death camp regardless of how many died.

Aren't there roomfuls of hair and sh-t?

I remember seeing people with a numbered on their arm as a kid.

I think very few survivors could exist to give testimony anymore. They'd have to have been very children at this point.

@BufftonBeotch I've been to Auschwitz. It's very sobering.

The problem is, the religious nutjobs who deny the Holocaust have likely never been out of their state of birth, much less travelled overseas.

They also support Israel not because of any altruistic streak or kinship with those of the Jewish faith (many of the racists hate Jews as much as non-whites), but simply because Armageddon won't happen (along with the Rapture) unless and until Israel rebuilds Temple Mount.

Hell of a way to run a foreign policy.

True. It was millions of others. Many more millions. Anyone sen as genetically inferior such as Down syndrome or many other things.

The brain washing was so deep that I understand many parents just handed over children deemed inferior to be killed on the spot.

Which is something I can not comprehend. The madness the can seize people's minds.

How can you love an idea of a shrieking madman more than your own child?

And I think Soviet citizens were in equal number to the Jewish people.

Slovaks----Romanians----homosexuals. Lots of others.

I'm afraid you underestimate greatly

This one disputes deniers in regards to Auschwitz and fuel for the ovens etc etc etc:

[phdn.org]

[hdot.org]

All the ovens were obviously for the Germans to be good hosts and have enough space to cook all those hamburgers and filet mignon steaks that they offered their guests with their 5 star accommodation.

@Piece2YourPuzzle what the ovens were used for is not in dispute, just the scale of the cremations. I believe it takes around 5 hours per corpse so one oven can only dispose of a maximum 5 corpses per day. There would have to be 657 ovens running continuously, 24/7/365 for 5 years to cremate 6m corpses. Even if half were buried, I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that it's open to question. Also could a country at war dedicate such fuel resources for body disposal?

@smoyle I don't deny that Nazi ideology had a goal of pushing a large percentage of the population of Poland and the lands east of it off that land, by whatever means could be employed. We are talking about an area where most of the world's Jews lived in the Pale of Settlement. I've done additional reading on the subject. Nazi SS units no doubt rounded up Jews in rural villages and shot them where they found them. The problem was that the majority of Jews lived in Polish cities. After the German conquest of the western half of Poland these urban Jews were pushed into confined ghettos. Many died of disease and starvation before they were ever removed. Others were sent to work camps, and some were probably sent to small temporary camps to be liquidated. How many people were killed this way is impossible to say with certainty. The German SS units probably demolished these sites before leaving the area. Then the area fell under the control of the Soviet Union for the next fifty years. Auschwitz was such a large facility that it remained largely intact; however, much of what we see in many of these camps was rebuilt later by the Soviets or the Polish government. There is a high likelihood that any crematory ovens or gas chambers one might visit today did not exist in 1943 and were not built by the Nazis. These places are much like museums are today. They represent recreations and approximations of what might have been used by the Nazis. There is simply so much about the Holocaust that we do not know. We may think we know, but finding the evidence to prove it 75 years later is the problem.

My issue with the Holocaust is that regardless of the actual extent of the killing, it has been packaged and marketed so shamelessly in recent decades. There have been obvious purposes to this. One is to provide a justification for Zionism and an excuse for Jews today doing similar things to Palestinians that Nazis did to Jews 75 years ago. The Holocaust industry is designed to create great sympathy for Jews from Americans and Europeans. And by using guilt it has been used to extort billions of dollars in reparations from Germany that have gone to the state of Israel and to millions of individual Jews. The Holocaust also has been used as a justification for massive financial support for Israel from the United States. This marketing of the Holocaust, this Holocaust "hustling" is what I find so offensive. According to Wikipedia ( One-Third of Americans Don't Believe 6 Million Jews Were Murdered During the Holocaust ) six-million Poles died in the war. Eight million Germans died in the war. 20 million Soviets died in the war. The US lost over 400,000 soldiers just in the war in Europe. So even if six million Jews did lose their lives in WW II, they were not the only people who died. But clearly they were the only people who mattered. 20 million dead Soviets don't seem to matter. Eight million dead Germans don't matter. Six million dead Poles don't seem to matter. And there seems to be little anguish about the 400,000 dead US soldiers. There is no thought or remembrance for any of these millions, not to mention the dead in all the other nations of Europe. There is just this focus and obsession on the six-million dead Jews. This is what rubs my fur the wrong way. Everyone else licks their wounds, and the survivors get on with life. Nobody else grand-stands and dramatizes their losses, their injustices, their suffering. But the Holocaust has become the defining event in all of human history for Jews, and they are using it for massive propaganda effect and advantage. Because I know I am clearly being manipulated by the Holocaust, it has generated resentment instead of sympathy. I never like to be played for a fool, and that is the effect the massive Holocaust propaganda campaign has on me... and I suspect on many other people, too. This hand has been greatly over played. That is the real issue with the Holocaust.

@smoyle Everything is answered in the links.

@skeptic99 QUOTE: "There is a high likelihood that any crematory ovens or gas chambers one might visit today did not exist in 1943 and were not built by the Nazis."

What the hell are you talking about?

QUOTE: "My issue with the Holocaust is that regardless of the actual extent of the killing, it has been packaged and marketed so shamelessly in recent decades. There have been obvious purposes to this. One is to provide a justification for Zionism and an excuse for Jews today doing similar things to Palestinians that Nazis did to Jews 75 years ago."

Regardless of the actual extent of the killing? Isn't that most of your argument? Lol

Packaged and marketed so shamelessly? Wow! Jews don't need an excuse to do what they do to Palestinians. They would do it regardless. Besides, they haven't murdered 6 million Palestinians in death camps. Although I do find both sides pretty disturbing with what is going on in the Middle East. I don't know which side is worse or who is more to blame though. It's not that simple.

How can anyone take your word for anything when you get simple dates of when Auschwitz was built and opened wrong? Denying there were any gas chambers or crematory ovens back in the 1940s and that the Germans didn't have them built is delusional. MOST OF THE WORLD has agreed these things happened and have verified them!!!

QUOTE: "The Holocaust industry is designed to create great sympathy for Jews from Americans and Europeans. And by using guilt it has been used to extort billions of dollars in reparations from Germany that have gone to the state of Israel and to millions of individual Jews. The Holocaust also has been used as a justification for massive financial support for Israel from the United States."

MASSIVE financial support from the U.S.? The U.S. gives Israel about $4-8b a year if I remember correctly, but Israel buys American goods and services. The U.S. wipes their ass with that amount of money compared to the total military and social programs budget we have. Reparations from Germany last as long as the last survivor. I think it's fair. Native Americans have also been paid reparations. Maybe there should also even be a one time reparation payment to African Americans. I'm not sure as I don't know the subject much deeper than an initial reading and analysis.

They also have military friggin' parades to remember the Soviet soldiers that died fighting the Nazis. I don't know where you get the Jews are the only ones that mattered in this issue. American soldiers are praised ad-nauseum in America. There are also remembrances and memorials for the Poles who lost their lives.

You are free to have your opinions though.

@smoyle they gassed people, and cremated the bodies by the hundreds at a time. I knew people who survived dachau.

@Judyt00 How did they cremate hundreds of bodies at a time? I don't think it's possible. Show me any evidence of a device that could do this.

@smoyle How about you start with the links I provided. You obviously don't care about "evidence" now do you?

@Piece2YourPuzzle OK, firstly let me reiterate my position, I am not a denier but I do question the numbers claimed. Up until now, nobody has shown any conclusive proof of these numbers. For the record, I don't count first hand reports of survivors necessarily as proof. The reason being, imagine the hell it was in those camps, how could you possibly come out with any accurate information. All I have seen is "He says this" or "They heard that". What makes it worse are false claims by people ignorant of the facts (like me) trying to enforce their beliefs of what happened (there's a term for that which escapes me for now). So I've read some (not all) of your links and there is the one letter from the oven manufacturer which indicates the numbers might be correct, so this would seem to be the evidence I asked for, you are the only person to supply ANY evidence. However, I'm not going to say "I read it on the internet so it must be true". I'm not going to research into this subject any further so you have the benefit of the doubt (and you have pried open a crack in my mind that it might have been possible which I will be mindful of if I ever get into this subject again).

@smoyle If you read about it and know what it says in the evidence I provided then why would you ask Judyt00 for evidence like you had none? Even the Nazis reported putting anywhere from 1 to 8 bodies in an oven at a time, but normally around 4 to 5 at a time. This is all depending on the size of the bodies including women, children, and men. They also had open fire pits outside. I don't know why this is so hard to understand for deniers. Denier is a broad term that includes outright deniers AND people who severely underestimate the numbers reported.

@Piece2YourPuzzle I replied to her post before I followed your links.

As for "Denier is a broad term that includes outright deniers AND people who severely underestimate the numbers reported" - who the hell are you to tell me what I deny and don't deny? A denier is someone who denies something - what ever that thing is and I don't deny a great many people were murdered, I don't think anybody does. You can't just re define a word because you want to insult those who question the numbers.

@smoyle So you replied to other comments and kept asking for evidence before you looked at my links presenting evidence A WEEK AGO? Lol

The term holocaust denier wasn't penned by ME, and it wasn't penned yesterday either. So your gripe about the definition isn't with me. Do you read comments at all? You are claiming that you don't think anybody denies that a "great many people were murdered", yet the person you have been conversing with claims he only thinks 250,000 - 600,000 Jews were murdered during WWII. Is that qualified as "anybody", and does that qualify as "a great many people"?

Like I said, the definition of holocaust denier isn't MY definition:

[slate.com]

[holocaustremembrance.com]

[adl.org]

[ushmm.org]

[en.wikipedia.org]

[rationalwiki.org]

[thelocal.de]

Maybe I'll come back in about a week when you read the definition in those links lol

@Piece2YourPuzzle Whatever dude, whatever. This conversation is going nowhere, I'm out.