I find it better as a second date question

@NerdyOkieDude i wasn't making stuff up. Someone actually asked me that! This guy was looking for a girl to buy a house with, as he hated his flat. I got terribly angry!

@NerdyOkieDude I've had experiences even worse than that. People asking me on a first date whether I've got a mortgage or a car. !!! Very flattering right.

@AdriaBack I don't think they are worse than savings balance. With cars in particular, lots of guys are quite into cars and are interested in whether/what you have, just like they might be interested if you have a pet or if you have a do much traveling.

@JoeC NO, NO, NO! if someone's asking about my job, mortgage, pay scale etc., before they can barely pronounce my name it's always going to be a No/No. Even if it means that I'm going to remain single for the rest of my life.

@JoeC And yes I have a very well paid job and don't mind sharing my money with a partner. But if that's the main reason you want to be with me, NO!!!

@AdriaBack Your earnings wouldn't be the reason I might want to be with you; and I agree mortgage, pay scale and bank balance are odd things to ask about for that reason. However, I might ask about your job and car even though I am not interested in your finances I suspect other guys may act similarly. I am also aware that some people just bring up mortgages as small talk whether or not they are interested in someone as a prospective partner, I wouldn't do this because it sounds boring but others do. When rejecting people because you think they are only interested in your money you may be rejecting people who are not interested in money but just trying to make small talk. Of course if you are aware of that and comfortable with it that is fine, but if you hadn't considered it I thought it worth letting you know.

@JoeC I have never rejected anyone purely because they were talking too much about money, and that's probably why I ended up with an incredibly materialistic, self centered person with a massive sense of entitlement! Anyway, I had to leave them in the end. Now, I will reject someone because of talking too much about money, so that I don't repeat the bad experience.

@AdriaBack My point was that talking about a job or a car is different to talking about money.

What brings you here today?
How's your day been so far?
Have you been to this venue before?
How did you hear of it?
How do you like to spend your free time?

All of these questions get answers that lead to more questions. Sometimes people volunteer their profession. You always get there, but if it's first question you ask, it says something about you.

@Athena I think 'how do you spend your free time' would be worse as a first question. It would feel a bit overwhelming to me in terms of options, and feels a bit like an interview. The others might work well depending on the situation but might result in one word answers not leading to more questions (eg why are you at this stand-up gig? To see the comedy. How did you hear about it? Facebook).
It's interesting that you think it says something about me. What does it say? Might you be jumping to conclusions?

@JoeC
These are questions I presented as an alternative to asking what someone does for a living. There is a natural flow to conversation, that doesn't sound like you're in an interview.

Asking what someone does for a living does tell me something about a person. It tells me, either interesting conversation is a struggle, or that occupation is very important to a person. As a first or second question? It tells me it's part of a process of elimination.

I have a job that I'm extremely proud of and I love. I'm not avoiding talking about it, but I think from the answers here, it will tell you that some people do think it's fine to ask, within seconds, in order to determine whether someone is worth your time.

Isn't being around someone for a few minutes, seeing their facial expressions, demeanour, warmth etc., a determinant in itself? Or, does it always come down to occupation, right away? I appreciate people who have more depth when "choosing" people, for just a conversation, or more.

I have met the most wonderful people who, upon first glance, would not be considered potential friends, or partners. I have friends of all ages, races and income brackets. Life is richer that way, as people are rich with contradictions.

@Athena I got that they were alternatives. They don't seem conducive to a natural flow to me.

I do struggle with starting interesting conversations with strangers when I don't initially know whether we have anything in common. I have interesting conversations with people I know. Is that a characteristic you don't want?

I also think it might be a bit weird watching someone's facial expressions etc would be a bit weird if we weren't having a conversation.

@JoeC
I meant reading their facial expressions during a conversation, not while hiding in the bushes.

It's bad form to ask someone the question right away... I mean, right away.

I find it really difficult to get the point across that I'm not referring to asking the question. There's simply more to ask and more polite things to ask initially.

It comes down to this. If you're good at true connection, the questions to find that out, are not found in THAT one. I've had friends for 20+ years and I couldn't tell you anything about their job description.. but I can tell you everything about what they love to do, how they think, what brings them joy, and what makes them tick.

Hate to even mention this... I've given courses on the art of conversation.. and the entire time is spent teaching people how to avoid the usual go-to questions that make conversation ordinary.

Some guys seem to worry about being taken advantage of financially so I try to be considerate of that. (Like their idea of a bad date is paying for a nice dinner & not even getting a peck on the cheek. Our idea of a bad date is being raped &/or murdered. But oh well.)

Same, i do not.work in my field right now either

I understand that is why someone appears to ask - I was hoping for a reason I can relate to, as I don't see it as a way to know. It misses so many aspects of someone. I work in an industry that is considered, by many, antithetical to who I am, my world view and the things I value.

I believe it possibly suggests two other things; either the person doesn't have much else to ask, or a limited ability for conversation (and not a person who understands how to build rapport and eventually real connection, i.e, why you do, versus what you do..), or they are trying to determine things about me by my occupation, and/or assessing whether they are interested in me based on my occupation.

Neither of these are of interest to me. I wouldn't fault anyone for thinking how they think. However, these reasons you mention are ones that I assume raise the question of occupation. You'll note, I specified that this is a question I find puzzling as an initial question. How someone spends their time is important, indeed. But at what point do you decide that?

If it's right away, I'm not that interested in getting to know you.

@Athena Well I hear you, but I don't think you can assume anymore from demonstrated curiosity about your occupation than the man can assume from your answer. Seems like a pretty innocuous question to me, and I would assume it to be so absent other evidence. Not everyone backs into building rapport and connection like you do. In fact, I can just about guarantee most men will not do it that way. We go from the concrete to the subjective, women tend to do the inverse. Vive la difference.

You seem defensive about how your profession is perceived. I can't speak for all men, but speaking for myself, particularly in this day and age, I don't assume much about what a woman does (or doesn't) do for a living. I had breakfast out this morning, at a little eatery next to a construction site, and a young lady in a hard hat sat at the table across from me to have coffee and breakfast. I did not assume that she was "not very bright" nor was I at all surprised that she was quite attractive. In other words I had no particular expectations of a female construction worker. I suppose a generation or two ago I might have expected more of a "Rosie the riveter" type in that role, but that has changed.

I have a son-in-law who is a house-husband and my daughter wears the pants in the family, as they used to say ... she is by far the major, nearly the sole, bread-winner. She's a nurse; that in itself is not a highly stereotyped and constrained role, and there are many men who are nurses today.

So it goes. I think you may be over-estimating how consequential particular jobs are, or how many are on a list of deal-breakers, in men's minds. Then again ... maybe I'm out of touch at my age or mis-extrapolating how younger men than I would think about this. That's just my $0.02 plus inflation, for what it's worth.

@HotAlutiiq Yeah there's that too. Seems like if you're striking up a potential intimate relationship with someone, what occupies a great deal of their time and how they feel about it is pretty consequential and also, not incidentally, a great way to express genuine interest in their life and experience. [shrug]

I'm stealing that line.

You missing the point. The question wouldn’t be about bills, but about who they are. Besides, it’s hard to figure out someone unless you ask direct questions and verify the answers. You know, we people lie.

@Ladislaver
I think you might be missing the point. Building rapport is about getting to know someone without interviewing them. How someone feels while speaking with another is important. You find out these things eventually, but asking immediately is a sign of, either poor conversation skills, or something the asker is using as a process of elimination.

Which you stated is the reason you do it. If that's the case, I'm happy to be eliminated.

I think it happens in some places more than others, yes.

I'm Canadian and live in a large cosmopolitan city. It happens here a lot, and much more than it would in a rural area of another province.

@Athena I wonder if it's just part of the urban mating dance then? Also there are fewer options in rural areas so it has less impact unless your at an extreme end of the scale.

@geist171
I think it may be that and what you already mentioned; the importance we place on status and money in larger cities where it seems to matter more.

Forgive me for my repetition as I replied just above a moment ago.

Please see (if you're interested) my follow up post with the title, "8 Questions...Other than What Do you Do?"

Exactly Crikk

That's fair. Occupation is a part of someone's life.. but I'm curious; how do you feel when it's the first question a woman asks you?

@Ladislaver
Can't come up with anything else?

I like reading the different views as well. I think everyone is in agreement that how someone spends their time is important, so eventually you'd want to know and understand many areas of a person's life.

The question is, at one point do you ask? Is it within the first 20 seconds, the first 10 minutes.. after an hour?

Sometime after the first 20 seconds would be more polite.

@Athena oh definitely...ugh...I try to give people a break on trying to find "safe" things to talk about, but, bringing it up too quickly tells me that communication is going to be a problem down the road...lol...20 seconds? UGH

@thinktwice

Two thumbs up to that!

Thank you very much for the generosity in your words and sentiment.
I'm currently single but haven't made any efforts to change that, as I ended an engagement not that long ago. Although things ended well and I don't feel I'm in recovery, so to speak, I've always taken long pauses between relationships. That probably has something to do with enjoying the state of being on my own, combined with giving the relationship the respect it deserves, i.e. metaphorically allowing the scent of one man to leave my home, before bringing in another.

These encounters I've had with men have been somewhat incidental. They range from friends arranging blind dates (initial phone call), to pulling up a stagnant online dating account to "see what the wind blows in."

Interestingly, the subject of occupation doesn't come up as quickly when I'm in social settings. It's only when they haven't met me yet, perhaps learning what they can, to decide if they'd like to. Occupation seems to be one criterion that needs to be met, in that decision making process, and therefore known immediately.

In the case where I have a written profile available, I would imagine that would provide adequate information to determine whether I'm someone of interest to them. This question they ask about my work, is so off-putting to me, that it's a non starter.
Many of my male friends haven't understand why, until I flipped the question as one posed to them by a woman.

When I'm in a healthy relationship or when I'm completely unattached, I'm in a state of pure gratitude and joy.. the process of meeting someone new just makes me want to take a nap!

Thanks again for your kind words.

@Athena I see, you are subscribing to only the dating part of this place.

@Ladislaver
No, I'm not dating. I'm only here for community.
This has nothing to do with this site.

@Akfishlady I've had those experiences. It's sad when people utterly lose their passions to be purely practical.

Even if you don't have much time, I think it's important to maintain things you love. Spending 10 minutes before bed reading or playing an instrument can do a lot to keep your spirit alive.

Forgive me for the repetition as I've responded similarly here.

I think we're all in agreement that it's very important to learn how someone spends the majority of their time. This is especially if you'd be interested in dating them!

However, at one point does the question become appropriate?
"Hi Maverick, I'm Athena."
"Hi Athena, what do you do for a living?"

My question was about the need to find out immediately. I'm not asked this in social settings - maybe due to the banter being distracting and entertaining. It happens often through social media or, in past, on dating sites.

The only reasons I can think of, that a guy would ask me this so quickly, is that he has poor conversation skills (not knowing how to get to know someone outside of that question - I do find a strong correlation), or this is a quick screening question for them to decide if I'm someone with whom it's worth "moving on to the next round" based on income or status.
Things in common or occupations that hold morally opposed implications are a concern, absolutely.

Maybe wait 5 minutes to ask? Let a person know you're interested in learning who she is, independent of her profession? Maybe show her you're an interesting person who doesn't have to rely on the answer to "what do you do" in order to have anything at all to say.

Also, my work is often very intimidating for men, in ways that surface later in conversation. I love what I do, but it says nothing about my morality or value system in any broad sense - at all.

@Athena Very True. Most of the interesting stuff I do has nothing to do with my employment. The art of conversation has really been lost on many people. I myself have often found myself resorting to cliche questions simply to attempt to start a conversation.

You sound like a really worthwhile person! & you explained it so well.

@Carin
That is so amazingly sweet of you to say!! (Blushing). I tend to feel like I over explain things sometimes.

I don't believe it's a good question to ask right away, no. I know men who feel the same way.

"Hi, I'm Jack."

"Hi Jack, I'm Jill, what do you do?"

Thought bubble:

"I'm the guy who's about to toss you down that hill."

@Athena Actually, that is a good question to ask anyone to establish bases for conversation. For example, you answer that you work for one o the mega churches, or that you serve a God. I wouldn’t continue to talk. On other hand, if you say that you work for Sam Harris, or are physics teacher, I would know where the conversation will be headed. Between us atheists, I think it’s okay to skip niceties.

Thank you for your answer.

I think this is exactly the point. Right away a person, man or woman, may feel they are being interviewed to earn more time.
When I meet a person, anyone, I don't want to feel like I'm on an audition to move to the next round.

Interestingly, this doesn't happen nearly as often when I meet someone in person. It more typically occurs within a social media or online forum.

@Athena But doesn't this happen all the time, in every situation? Sizing up can be either positive or negative, but it's how we are wired. In the getting-to-know someone phase, I am not being judgemental but I am curious. If the meeting is in person I'll have already done pre-work and have enough interest to meet. If not, more information gathering within the bounds of polite civility.

Exactly. When someone places the conduct of a person, their demeanour, their sincerity, thoughts, or ability to make conversation, above the importance of his or her profession, this is someone I'd like to know.

@Athena I couldn't agree more. That quality in a person indicates that they're able to see beyond labels and superficial trappings and appreciate the CHARACTER of others.

I agree.

Why a lawyer in particular?

An acquaintance of mine recently said she met a really terrific guy on vacation, then added "But then I found out he was a waiter, so there is absolutely NO way!"

I said "Oh my goodness, he was a pedophile?"

"No no, I said he's a waiter."

"Oh.. from your extreme reaction to not dating him, I thought that's what you said."

True story.

@Athena I have never met a lawyer I really trusted or liked of either gender. They spend years learning to lie and twist the truth.

Or would like to become accustomed to!

I'm adding gormless to my vocabulary!!

I like that. The "why" is more indicative of things that matter.

"I became a doctor because my parents made me go to medical school" is different from "my little sister died of a rare disease and I wanted to save other children."

I think the moment someone brings up their work, the question is fine, as in the example you gave about working nights.

I usually will ask what made them choose their occupation, or if they enjoy what they do, even before "what do you do." You see what people appear to be, but I'm interested in the meat of what makes them tick.

There's a huge difference between "I'm a lawyer because both my parents are and they really wanted that for me too." And, "When I was a kid my father was wrongly convicted of a crime and spent 2 years in jail before they discovered he was innocent. He said he had a really bad lawyer."

I just wrote the same answers before I read yours. You must be a genius.

For some, their jobs will heavily influence their life. I belive that is important to a relationship.

This^^^^ I have also worked in sales and concur.