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What if you are wrong and there IS a god

Im atheist . And I get asked this often . Was curious to know other non believers answer to this . Without getting into to much detail my answer is simple. If I am wrong and im hell doomed for not believing then thats fine with me . Maybe hell is where I belong . Because there is just to many things in the bible itself I can't justify . Too many evilness . God murdered o don't know how many people including kids . He tortures gay people . Ect. I will not bow down before such an evil being . I also have questions for him as well. One being why has remain hidden ? Why did he leave behind no evidance of his existance? And even more confusing leave more evidence of him NOT existing and then throw us in flames for eternal torment for not believeing him ? If he does exist we have a mad man on charge and we should all be fearful of this lunitic . So send me to hell god because I would never follow you anyways

By DavidDeLa89
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174 comments

33

This is known as Pascal's Wager.

The believer may say:

"Suppose you are right. Suppose there is no God.
Then when I die, as a believer, I have lost nothing.
I just die, as a man that devoted his life to love and morals.
But if you, as a non-believer, are wrong and I am right, you have to spend an eternity in hell.
See, I have nothing to lose, but you have everything to lose."

But the believer neglects a third scenario in which neither of us are correct. Perhaps upon death we are met with a deity whose identity, over the history of the universe, has yet to be known by the living. A deity who judges the worshiper of false idols more harshly than one who worshiped none altogether.

After all, this deity is unknown to all and they decreed to themselves that anyone who would rather follow false prophets than to accept the unknown deserves no peace beyond death. As such the unknown deity inflicts upon the believer torment after death that makes hell but a trivial mockery of what awaits the follower of false beliefs.

There is also other scenarios in which neither of us are correct. Perhaps Zeus, Osiris, Vishnu, Allah, or any one of the various other deities that are or ever have been believed in exist.

DreadlySmart Level 5 Jan 9, 2018
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Very interesting point of view. I once thought the same and heard from a few others that scenerio . What if there is a being that wed identify as " god " but hes a being that has yet to be dicovered ? And where both wrong ? And we BOTH get judged harshly .? This sir is exackly why i joined this sight to hear other ideas and have interesting convos . smile001.gif

The older I get the more I honestly feel that IF... huge IF there, but IF there is a god at all, there has to be several. There is just too much that conflicts and doesn't seem to quite make sense for there only to be one.

Historically for far longer than not it was believe there were many. Even in Christianity there was the idea of, though there are many, only one should be worshipped. It seems only the last few hundred years that the idea developed that there really is only one and it has become common to think all the others are false. What brought that idea to me was the commandment not to hold any other deity before him. Ok... if there were no others, then why bother mentioning them at all? When they are mentioned then why make a commandment that would make them lesser gods or at least insist they not be held as important?

Either way, to me science has ways of explaining things or provides methods of finding evidence where holy books tend to lay down the law without proof. Anyone who remembers their parents saying "because I said so" has to remember how far that went.

Ah, Pascal's Wager, the most misunderstood wager in the history of gambling.
Some people believe that Pascal wrote this as a CYA with the Catholic Church because of his controversial writings that led some to question his faith. However, I like to think that Pascal was playing with us, tongue-in-cheek, and having a bit of fun. Note that this is not a theological argument, at all, but rather a "theological na-na-na-na-na!" as in "I'm going to heaven and you're going to hell, na-na-na-na-na!" Pascal, being a lifelong Catholic, knew very well that the primary cardinal sin was Pride, such as the Pride of Satan. Such arrogant schadenfreude would never be practiced by true Christians, and to do so would not get you into heaven...but into hell! smile001.gif

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22

Personally, I would have no qualms with that. I grew up Catholic, and entered college with the earnest intent to understand God. At not point did I think that I would become atheist. But by the time I graduated with my degree in religion, I no longer believed in anything. 10 years later, I am even more disillusioned with the idea.

If God is testing me to believe in something that I spent over a decade pursuing, yet it yielded no good reason for me to believe, then he/she/it is absurd. I can face God with a clear conscience. If that is how God operates, a being of that nature would not be worthy of my worship anyhow.

I used to really want there to be a God, but as I've grown older, I have changed my mind on that. There is a comfort with absolute freedom that I really enjoy. The air smells crisper, beauty becomes more beautiful, and my choices have more value. To live like there is no puppet master pulling any strings makes life a lot more exciting. So even if there is a God, at this point, I want to be left alone.

Loudpaintings Level 5 Jan 9, 2018
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Especially loved your last paragraph, and totally in sympathy with the rest of your statement having had much the same experience.

I have come to disbelieve in the Puppetmaster; when I did, it was because I was TAUGHT each Sunday to "rely in God for everything and thank him for everything".

Then, I began to ask: If some do that, then what is the difference from that and BLAMING God for everything?

Both concepts encourage us to avoid accountability for our actions, laziness, and lack of ambition; to discourage us from Independant decision-making and following others blindly without critical thinking of our own. Hey, that sure worked for the Catholic church until the Age of Enlightment!

I can see your point.

16

@DavidDela89... My answer isn't really all that much different than yours, although I've never been asked that by anyone. If any god were real yet did nothing while millions of innocent people suffered, starved, and were subjected to genocide then that god is evil. Any god that would not even protect children within that god's own church/temple and allow children to be sexually molested by priests is evil. Any god that would create horrible diseases and allow babies to be born with terrible physical deformities is evil.

And if a god created me and gave me the intelligence and reasoning to use logic and I determined for myself that god is not real, then that god made me that way. Any all-knowing god knows exactly what would be required for me to believe in him/her/it. No god has ever provided such proof that I would require, so god is therefore willfully allowing me to go to hell where I will be punished for eternity simply for being a rational person.

Charles1971 Level 6 Jan 9, 2018
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Very interesting

Exacly . I agree 100 % . If he does exist he set us up for failure

Very erudite reasoning you have there, Charles. I don't believe it, but simultaneously I can't prove my ideas are correct; but you've certainly given me something to think about! Got any furture writings on this?

When I have reasoned with people about this point, Charles, I have gotten the standard "it's God's will." That's the end of the discussion.

@poetdi56 If you or I were to walk past a child lying in a gutter or ignore a grievously injured person because we were "too busy" to stop we would be labeled as horrible people, cruel and heartless. If the Christian god does this, somehow it's perfectly fine because somehow these people were meant to suffer.

I suppose that makes sense to Christians but it doesn't work for me. Allowing pain and suffering to happen when you could EASILY stop it is characteristic of someone who is pitiless and immoral at best and utterly reprehensible and evil at worst. "It's God's will" is a pathetic and ignorant excuse for people who are unwilling to think for themselves.

Greek philosopher Epicurus stated...

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

13

If there is God, he/she/it has a lot to answer for.

blago84 Level 5 Jan 9, 2018
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Thats what im saying

13

There's no evidence of any god. Don't worry about it.

sassygirl3869 Level 9 Jan 9, 2018
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Its all about what we choose to believe, hopefully, by critical thinking. Some would say there is evidence, some say not.

At one time, people thought the sun and planets rotated around the earth; all disease was demonic (they had no concept of germs); an atomic bomb or atoms didn't exist in their world; and any child born so severely deformed to survive was evidence that it was a spawn of Satan due from the mother having sex with the devil.

My grandmother didn't believe man could never get to the moon because God would shoot them down before they could get there ("God will not be mocked" ). Then, when they succeeded, Satan had "outsmarted God". But if God is all-knowing.....well, you get my drift.

11

I get this a lot too.

I always say, "If I'm wrong and a god exists he will either A. reward me for being a good person without needing threat of damnation or promise of reward or B. He's a cunt and I'll be punished for not kissing his ass. Either way, I'll have lived my life my way."

Crimson67 Level 8 Jan 11, 2018
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I never thought of it like that wow .

11

I could provide a detailed response, but I think it would be superfluous when Homer Simpson gave such a fine answer to this question:

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resserts Level 8 Jan 9, 2018
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Lol. Never thought of it that way

Lol!

Excellent!
LOL

9

Then if I meet said deity, I say immediately, "you're fired."

Meiliken Level 5 Jan 9, 2018
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Nice one! smile001.gif

Its going to be 'yuge'

8

That depends. Which god?

firecracker Level 6 Jan 9, 2018
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any - all

8

Lets say one day the existence of god is proven. That day I will say: "I was wrong, god exist." Period.

DUCHESSA Level 7 Jan 9, 2018
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IAW, I was trying to say (without words) that if one day the NO existence of god is proven the believers will refuse to accept the evidence.

Due to the existence of Flat Earthers im starting to wonder if anything can be proven without a reasonable doubt, there will always bee those who say its blue when its red.

@DUCHESSA I'm a Christian, but if God were scientifically and incontrovrtably proven to not exist, I would have to change my thinking, obviously; however, I'd still live my life trying to practice the teachings of the10 Commandments 3-8, and the teachings of Christ regarding love, mercy, forgiveness, and NOT JUDGING OTHERS different from me. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are many that believe Jesus was just a revolutionary rabbi with some good advice on life. I could live with that. I'm a lover, not a fighter, lol!

@Lewellyn33 Besides the fact that is obvious that you reason...are you aware the10 Commandments were not "" invented"" but appropriated by the Christian? They also stole many Pagan celebrations.

@DUCHESSA Oh yes! They were in the Ugaretic texts of the Syrians and Sumerians hundreds of years before Moses brought them down from Sinai. Many of Jesus' teachings are direct quotes from Aristotle and Socrates! I have notes somewhere that I traced which scriptures were first spoken by which Greek philosopher; there were several listed, but I can't remember where I put them for the life of me!

Much of the stories in the Bible were in earlier texts of earlier pagan religions, some archaeologists date back 500-1000 years before the Dead Sea Scrolls There are some scriptures very similar to the Phoenitians.

In Ugarit, ancient Syria and in the Caananite religion, Baal was only outranked by El, the chief God. But Baal ran all El's affairs and was called "king of the the gods" and "most high" in Ugaretic texts. Yet, in the Bible, Baal is the evil god. He was also called "prince, lord of the underworld" (zbl ba'al 'arts) in Ugaretic text. He becomes Baal Zebul, later Baal Zebub, associated with Satan in Jewish literature. Where most scholars agree there is association, they disagree on the precise etymological development and conceptual relationships between Baal ("lord and master" in Ugaretic and Hebrew) and Baal Zebub.

There is still uncertainty whether or not Baal had his own separate divine council like El, (and later, Yahweh had) serving as El's vice-regent.At any rate, El had an underling god named Yahweh, also known as El Shaddai. Supposedly, El divided up the kingdoms of the world (the world as they knew, not the entire globe) to minor gods to rule for him. Yahweh was assigned to the areas of Israel and Palestine today, along with Mesopotamia, a pagan land.

Abraham was a Mesopotamian, so he was most likely from a pagan family. When he was visited by Yahweh and told he'd be the father of many nations, Yahweh identified himself not as Yahweh, but El Shaddai. Some scholars believe Yahweh was a son of El, some believe they are the same god - even though in Psalm 82, Yahweh and El are clearly separate gods. Studying this is like going down a rabbit hole, or studying a family :thth but it has fascinated me for years. So, sorry for the rant!

@OrbitalResonance Yes! Flat earthers - now those people I just don't understand! I thought they were joking, at first!

7

My favorite question. I can usually easily shut them up just by asking, "Which God?"

JohnnyMiller Level 5 Jan 21, 2018
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Lol ohhh I’ve done that .... and the butt hurt is terribly amusingsmile001.gif

@HeidiBC It usually is.

Im added this defense to my arsenal lol

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7

Which god? The god that watches as children die of cancer? The god that watches as a gunman shoots up its believers in a church, and does nothing to stop it? Why would I not only want to spend an eternity with a disgusting entity like that, but worship it as well?

Sethy Level 4 Jan 15, 2018
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7

I'll take my chances, thanks.

evergreen Level 7 Jan 9, 2018
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6

I have been asked this and I would tell people that if they believe that god created me... then I was created perfect in his image. I ask them to affirm this. They have to do so... and then I say then I am groovy. If I was created by him, then he knows me quite well. smile001.gif I have no fear of the mythical creator. If there is one, then he should be cool as he made me. I know I'm cool with me. smile001.gif

Be your own god smile007.gif

Knitfreak Level 7 Jan 9, 2018
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6

One religious person I once talked to said God wanted no evidence of his existence because then everyone would believe in him . So I said what’s wrong with that . He then said that God wants to test people’s faith in him without proof . I then said why didn’t he just create people with faith ,with out the ability to question it . He then came up with the answer all brainwashed religious people come up with when there is no logical answer which is ( you do not question Gods actions )

richiegtt Level 7 Jan 9, 2018
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Ya this whole god thang just makes zero semse to me

Ah, the great 'mystery'

God gave us brains for a reason. If not, then God made a mistake. If God made a mistake, then he is not God.

5

If I'm wrong, then I have some serious questions about God's role as a leader!

CedrickMoore Level 3 Apr 21, 2018
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5

The entire concept of Christianity sets you up for failure to start with. It's a guide to obedience. You might call the bible The Goat and Sheep Herders Guide to the Universe.

DenoPenno Level 7 Feb 12, 2018
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5

I just point out that S/He is supposed to be pretty big on forgiveness, so I'll probably be let off the hook.

Jnei Level 8 Jan 9, 2018
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Lol

4

Would very politely tell God "Oops, sorry God but you were really not very convincing until you came out"

JayTea Level 6 May 16, 2018
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4

I just ask "What if you're wrong and the real God is Zeus? ready for the thunderbolt up the bum hole are we?"

LenHazell53 Level 7 May 7, 2018
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4

Even if god exists, religion is still a bunch of phony, baloney nonsense made up to control the disadvantaged.

PhoebeCat Level 7 Feb 7, 2018
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4

If I survive after death then I will also be supernatural so I'll stir up a supernatural revolution and kick his supernatural ass and hold him to account for all the shit he's caused to life on the planet I love.

Failing that, at least I'll be bloody warm. It's freezing here tonight.

Uncorrugated Level 7 Jan 12, 2018
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Ya ill meet u in the afterlife and well get all our supernatural entities amd try and over ride his ass lol

3

I am open to being wrong. I find that is the major difference between me and believers. If you can prove it as truth, existing in reality, then I have to agree, or be just as irrational as anyone who believes in the unprovable as truth. I can't say one way or the other because that information is not available. It is like the question, who's the greatest "whatever" of all time?. All time isn't over, so how can anyone know?

McVinegar Level 7 May 2, 2018
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3

If I die and find myself brought before a god, that god is gonna have a whole lot of explaining to do.

Deb57 Level 7 Apr 16, 2018
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3

I always say. What if you are wrong and Hindus are right or the buddhist maybe the Greeks were right. With that logic there are over 3000 gods that man have invented you better get to praying to all of them to cover your ass

Donto101 Level 7 Mar 8, 2018
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