I always thought that an atheist didn't believe in god, and an agnostic doubted the existence of god but was still open to the possibility of god existing. Anyone else thought this?

Look for a book called Atheism: The Case Against God, by George H. Smith. Read the first chapter where he defines atheism and variants of it, as well as agnosticism. It is beautifully simple, jarringly simple, but very important. And you will know why there are still some hotly contested discussions among non-believers. Don't rant about it. Figure out why.

The terminology seems like a contradiction because, in your mind, you have assigned excess meaning to a very simple word. I am an agnostic atheist. They are not mutually exclusive things at all. And both terms are used because they denote a very important distinction. I choose to label myself because it's accurate and it conveys information. That's what labels are for.... I'm not down with useless arguments. But I'm also not down with the whole, "Hey, we are all on the same side for the most part so why don't we just get along and forget about logic and meaning" mentality. That is more against "free thinking" than objective debate.

I like what the Dali lama said, which was in answer in an interview when asked, what if science proved there was no god? He said ( I paraphrase) then there’s no god. Be nice.

Penn Jillette, of all people, has a really logical way of explaining Atheist vs Agnostic.
Whether you question if a god exists or is knowable, if you lack a belief in a god, then you are an atheist. You don't have to actively believe is definitely no god. Only that you lack a belief in any particular one.

An agnostic is an atheist who has a more questioning philosophy. After all an agnostic also lacks a belief on any particular god, or you wouldn't be agnostic. It's not that the two aren't comparable or similar, but that one is a subsection of the other.

At least that is how it logically makes sense to me. I used to quibble of the semantics of the words until someone asked me a simple question:
Do you have an active belief in any kind of god?
No, than you're not a theist.

"I don't know" is a reasonable answer, but if you don't know if a god exists, then are you claiming he does? Saying a god is possible is not the same as saying I believe in a god.

Of course in the end it's more of a semantics based argument. To me, it's the difference between a Catholic and a Roman Catholic.

I’m a classical agnostic like you.

That one was a doozy

I'm not into labels, in the sense that I don't need to strongly identify as an atheist in order to have a meaningful life. On the other hand, language is important, because communication is important. So, here is my understanding of the terms:

A/theism is about belief in gods, in particular the absence or presence of such belief. If you don't believe, you're an atheist; if you do believe, you're a theist.

Agnosticism is about knowledge. An agnostic thinks that whether or not gods exist is inherently unknowable. For example, that there are agnostic theists: people who believe in a god, but do not claim to KNOW that there is a god.

Everyone is either an atheist or a theist: you either believe, or you don't. Agnosticism is not a special third choice, as it deals with a completely different aspect of the supernatural altogether.

Just came across this post. I can say that I do not believe in any organized religion, for various reasons. This does not mean that there is not a force in the Universe which can guide us to a better life. So far that is given us by the laws of Physics, we figure out all there is and can apply it towards a better life for all. Religion cannot.

Interesting but at the end of the day an agnostic cannot call themselves a theist so I kinda think the point is moot. For some of us who go so far as saying we are anti-theist, we are angry that the Lords prayer is said at beginning of parliament, swearing on bible in court and religious instruction in schools. I find religion divisive and feel the world would be a better, kinder place without it so I will proudly shout ATHEIST.

Thanks Silvereyes, and well said. I appreciate your putting into words what so many of us are feeling

A well composed,thought provoking post making a person re-examine long standing beliefs,perhaps shaking their foundations of what was steady,and strong.

What do you atheists not believe in? "God"? What the dickens is that? What do you agnostics withhold judgment on the existence of? "God"? What the dickens is that? An infinite omnipresent incorporeal spirit that created everything but the infinite omnipresent spirit that created everything but itself? What the dickens is that?

I am happy to say atheist until I find convincing proof otherwise. That is technically also agnostic, but not in the believer feels better because I am giving credence to their belief and they can assume I mean their higher power is true.

I often think of a better term ... That takes away the dogma we are opposed to ...

Language is so difficult a thing to use . To try to express what you want to mean can be taken rightly or wrongly. 2 +2 = 4 we know that. That is the language of maths, but when trying to debate finding the correct words, knowing one wrong word, even said with good intentions, can lead to disaster. That said language is a beautiful thing, poetry, songs, or even a simple letter to someone is truly wonderful

For me, it depends who is asking me. If its a religious person I say I'm an atheist so they don't think they can sway me with their testimony. It seems everyone else understands that the unknowable is a variable that can't be ruled out however unlikely, and they never ask me to define myself anyway.

I don't mind having "labels" to help define my beliefs to others. Personally, I'm both Agnostic and Atheist. I don't believe it is knowable whether there is or isn't a god, but I personally believe there isn't. I can no better prove there isn't a god, than anyone can prove there is one.

I sometimes describe myself as a "don't carist" because I simply don't care whether there is or isn't a god. I will live my life the best I can with the social mores and ethics that have been established over time, in the thousands of years since the concept of god/s crept into the minds of humankind.

There are many forms of literature to help form one's character. The bible doesn't help much in our modern society, as a moral compass. Neither Agnostic or Atheist describe how I get my morality and ethics. Humanist is a better label to further define my spiritual/religious beliefs

Basically, if we refer to the Webster definitions, all agnstics are atheists, but not all atheists are agnostics. That seems simple enough.

This was a really good post but I still prefer to label myself as an atheist because I see the Universe itself as coming out of nothing.

“The role played by time at the beginning of the universe is, I believe, the final key to removing the need for a Grand Designer, and revealing how the universe created itself. … Time itself must come to a stop. You can’t get to a time before the big bang, because there was no time before the big bang. We have finally found something that does not have a cause because there was no time for a cause to exist in. For me this means there is no possibility of a creator because there is no time for a creator to have existed. Since time itself began at the moment of the Big Bang, it was an event that could not have been caused or created by anyone or anything. … So when people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them the question itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the Big Bang, so there is no time for God to make the universe in. It’s like asking for directions to the edge of the Earth. The Earth is a sphere. It does not have an edge, so looking for it is a futile exercise.”
― Stephen Hawking

I've called myself Agnostic from about age 16. I can't and won't tell anyone that I somehow know that there's no "god". How can I prove that something does not exists? Have I really looked under every single rock? I can only promise that I've seen no proof... and not even any evidence that there is. Yup, very unlikely that such a thing exists, but EXTREMELY likely that man has invented all this to make life easier for some and vastly more profitable for some of them as they live off the believers. I'll beleive what science tells and shows me long before I'll believe the guy who says I just gotta believe the whole load on faith... and cuz he says so! But I live in rural WV where people "believe" and are steeped in it from birth. No sense in discussing it.

@EdwinMcCravy: You say meaningless for 'God' but other people do put their own meaning whenever they hear it. Any ideas about how to stop everyone hearing it ever again?
This is why I am not a secularist, people who believe in keeping it separate.I believe it will take so long to go away that it is a waste of effort to form partitions when we could be engaged in getting it to actually go away - however slowly.

I can’t really see much difference in Agnostic and atheist. I’m very disappointed that the atheist organizations are heavily biased toward the liberals. For that reason I can never support them as they are more radical than the Christain’s.

Excellent post.

I agree with your own named beliefs- I.e. about rejecting the Hebrew god idea, yet not being able to disprove other types of gods, etc., and stand by my self-definition as "agnostic."