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What do you guys think.

So , i was recently at a funeral service, my mother's. I have been an atheist my entire life. and my siblings are non "believers" as well. My mother had discovered jehovah in later years. I really don't know much about that sect. The only thing I do know is that they think/beleive is that only 150.000 people will allowed into heaven. That always made me wonder why anyone would really want that???. My question is that during the service the pastor seemed to be using Jehovah and Jesus Christ in the same sentence, he refered to jehovah as god and JC as the holey son. Now i do know a good deal about christianity and the whole think just seemed odd, even flawed, but idk, what do you guys think.

Carla1963 5 Sep 10

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7

Well, what that fellow was saying is in keeping with what they believe. They don't buy into the trinity thing at all, so they consider the Big Boy in the Attic as the supreme creator dude and the Dead Jew on a Stick is the son. They are not one in the same and there is no holy spirit per se.

They only celebrate one holiday and that is in recognition of how the Nazareth Kid got to be the Dead Jew on a Stick. Because this was supposed to have occurred on Passover, they celebrate once a year on the 14 day of the Hebrew month of Nisan (the Jewish calendar). They commemorate this fabled death as a ransom or 'propitiatory sacrifice.' They call it the Lord's Evening Meal or Memorial. No other celebrations are recognized.

That number is 144,000. 144,000 will go to the Great Foreverland Park in the Sky. The remainder of the 'saved' will enjoy Forever After Blissful Life on a perfect Earth without global warming and no threat of the sun ever going nova. This all has to be true because the guys at the Watchtower Society say it is.

Aren't they also the one's who believe g_d has a wife? I mean in heaven. Not all those virgins on earth he's raped.

@BufftonBeotch -- You're talking about Asherah. She is mentioned in the OT, and there is considerable controversy over the idea of her being the wife of the Dominant Dude in the Clouds. As for the JWs, I don't know if they believe in that.

I know that some of them think that the Nazareth Kid hitched up with Mary Magdalene and they had children and that, supposedly, comes from the 'Lost Gospel.' I don't know much about that, either. Sorry.

@evidentialist I love the way you talk about this bullshit.
Last bit also somewhat dramatized in that "Last Temptation" movie that made people lose the damn minds.

Almost forgot: The Mormons (the second 'm' is silent) do believe that their Supreme Schmuck is married to the Mother in Heaven (she's where the souls come from). They got this from the alcoholic con man who invented their religion.

Dead Jew on a stick!!! Heavens to Betsy, that made me laugh!

@Holli , me too! I am gonna use that one.

@Holli, Betsy does not get Heaven.

@evidentialist your pronouns are hilarious, and your assessment of JW is correct. Glad read this thread.

@GlyndonD -- Why? What did Betsy do?

@evidentialist Betsy died.

@GlyndonD -- And she doesn't get heaven. Poor Betsy.

5

They don't vote. That's a positive thing about them, anyway.

I did not know that

@DavidAckerman Some do not concern yourself with "worldly" things.

Or whatever shit.

@BufftonBeotch american base belief crazy bunch

that was one of the MANY hypocrisies that bothered me, the no celebration of holidays / yet wanted to be invitied to xmas, shows up without gifts for the kids ( with the oxymoron excuse of " i don't celebrate xmas", complaining about world issues, yet no voting, etc, etc. There were many "discussions" especially when she first converted as we had ALWAYS been an agnostic / atheist family, and we all though she had lost her mind.

3

Why waste any effort figuring out their BS?

just asked because i thought the guy had messed up

3

Sorry about your mom.
JWs are a weird lot. I mean, all believers are fairly weird, but the JWs take it
to another level. Like Mormons.
They're ALL cults.

some of those cults have ALOT of numbers, i learned very early just smile and nod.........

@Carla1963 I don't do that anymore. I have NO respect for the delusions of others. I don't pretend to, either. I will never do anything to make any of them feel comfortable to demonstrate their delusions ever again.
I have to tolerate them by law, I do not have to respect them.

2

Well its religion of course its flawed. That's one of my main points when someone says anything about a God. I ask which one? There response is normally there is only one, which I say so you believe in the same God ad someone in the middle east? Or in Asia? Which they get a puzzled look on there faces.

2

yes 144000 to rule in heaven with god and jc a sort of priest class if you will most being already there the remainder to be called (i think this means some sort of end of times last pick not sure been a while since i lost my jw friend).also yes god(jehovah) is the father jc his son every other saved soul resides on an eden type earth for ever the rest are just destroyed for eternity. finally yes it would seem odd and flawed get people together to write a story then others to interpret the true meaning of said story and you have the beginnings of a shit storm of contradictions that we all know and love as religious teachings.
hope you are doing ok take care

2

I'm sorry for your loss. We only have one mom.

First off it is 144,000 destined for heaven. Jehovah and JC in the same sentence and JC as the holy son. Certainly. The Witnesses do not believe in the Holy Goat of the Trinity. Why does it all seem odd or flawed? Maybe because all religion is odd and flawed. You dig further and you find that Jesus was really Michael the Archangel. Mainstream religions hate them for these reasons and the fact that they deny existence of a soul, and they have to have the soul because this is the way people are instantly in heaven or hell regardless of what happens when they did. Religion cannot stand death and is largely a fear of death to start with. Like the song "where the soul of man never dies" we have to have eternal life before we even get there. There are a lot of quirks in the Jehovah Witness belief but in the end they are just as quirky as any of the rest of them. Gods and religion are imaginary.

I agree, I have always believed that religions are a crutch stemming from fear of death, or even fear of responsibility ( just pray for an answer / god will provide, etc). I can't keep them all straight is all, lol

2

The first thing I think is I am so so sorry for your loss. As for the funeral service I had to attend a JW-based one last month. I am lucky in that I was able to just sit there and remember the deceased in my own way in my own mind. I don't think I will ever get the 'god' stuff at all even though I was brought up catholic (even through those years I never really understood the point). I hope you manage to move forward with your life with some sort of happiness, I know that's not the right word. My thoughts are with you and with everyone else going through a loss.

thank you, the loss is hard. my mother did live a long life and none of us ended up as serial killers, so she had a good life

1

The number is 144,000. It's in that ergot-induced nightmare, Revelations. Just ask yourself, given the Earth's population of 7 billion people, are you the best person out of 55,000 of your closest friends? No? Then you're going to hell.

But it's actually worse than that. That 144,000 is not general admission seating. All of those spots are reserved for the 12 tribes of Israel, 12,000 each. So the bible actually says that not a single Christian gets to go to heaven. So why would anyone be a Christian?

Source:

Revelations 7:4-8

1

It's all a crock of shit so it doesn't matter if they get some of it wrong, it's only a story. Sorry to hear about your mum.

1

There a millions of JW's. If you are not in the 150,000 what then. i don't like the odds here so I'll pass.

The 144k will have an infinite spiritual body up in heaven. Everyone else lives in an eternal body (food/sleep needed) on Paradise Earth (aka Fantasy Island) with Mr. Roarke and Tattoo.

@jondspen Hmmm, well maybe I'll reconsider. - not.

1

People like to think that they are part of a chosen elite group. Thinking you are a member of the chosen elite also makes it easier to ignore those who disagree with you.

1

Sorry for your loss. I am an xjw and I have been out of the cult for many years. In jw dogma 144,000 go to heaven. For the rest of jws they must obey without question everything that the governing body tells them. These commands are non negotiable, question them and you are out! Huge consequences follow, if your family are jws then you will be shunned by them. All other jws will treat you as though you are dead. No contact in any form because if they do then they are in big trouble also. They see god as the almighty and jesus as a separate and very inferior being. Like all religions it's all horse shit.

1

I'm so sorry you lost your mom!

Carin Level 8 Sep 11, 2018
1

The loss of a mother is hard. I focus on the good memories of those I have lost and it helps. Hope your memories are warm of your mom. Take care of yourself. In direct answer to your question, what the preacher was saying really does not matter. He works from flawed texts with flawed reasoning.

1

Jehovah is just another word for the Abrahamic god like Allah or Yewelea (whatever Jews call it).
Just another Christian spinoff if JC's his boy.

1

Sorry for your loss 😟. I personally have not been presented with evidence of any god or gods.

1

Sorry that you lost your mother.
On the Witnesses, they have a lot of really strange beliefs so trying to figure them out will most likely give you a migraine.

1

The whole thing is really just double talk anyhow.

1

The Trinity concept (which I don't believe Jehovahs accept) says "the father, the son, and the holy ghost are separate manifistations of the same one god. It is a very confused concept that says you get three gods in one, but who ever said any form of religion was rational. I think (not totally sure but reasonably sure) Jehovah's Witnesses sat the father and the son are separate entities.

1

Jehovah is a poor translation of the Hebrew "yahweh", regardless.... the jw are nontrinitarian. They believe that jesus is the son of yahweh, not the same spirit... jesus is the Arch Angel Michael incarnate and sent by jehovah. They are not a death cult, they are considered an end times religion like 7th day adventist.

Feel free to ask questions about this area i am well versed.

Etre Level 7 Sep 11, 2018

It takes a stupid religion to have different names for the same person. Why couldn't he always have been Jesus?

1

I am very sorry for your loss. You only get one mom. ? Wouldn't you think that quota of 150,000 people was filled a few centuries ago? These folks might as well party their fannies off. The inn is full.

144 000 are ment to be the rulers over the other saved ones

@beerhungry, it looks like Michael has a problem with VW bugs, too.

@GlyndonD I don't think these people like us very much.

That was so funny.

1

When it comes to death cults, I really, really like those Jehovas Witinesses followers. The organization is something else. Like all other death cult spin-offs of the Abrahamic theologies, the 'Witnesses' are overseen by males. They also base their entire perspective on allegedly inspired determinations of what is and is not 'scripture'; scripture being an unquestionable level of dictates originating with their god.

One of the most corrupt proceedings in the ancient world was the council at Nicaea and it was the determiner of which ancient writings qualified as 'scripture'. It was also glaringly consistent with all major religions since that era of being entirely male dominated.

The witnesses are scholarly and well meaning folks. The fatal flaws with them are shared with all other major cults in that males lead them.

My beliefs differ from all such cults in that I believe women to be humanity's better natural leaders and that males are vital to the protection and support of that status.

1

Why do so many religions seem to want to find a way to keep believers out of heaven, just one of the many things that make me wonder why anyone wants to believe, especially the jehovah’s with that limit on heaven, would have to think it’s getting pretty full already, I mean i’m No mathematician but we have about 8billion people, 150,000 goes into that what like half a billion times, at least some of those people have to be good enough for jehovah, and that’s only the people alive now how about all the people from say the last 2000 years, and also all the future people, not sure this number is going to be as big as everyone expects, so ya nobodies odds are good at getting into jehovah’s heaven, but hey if your a good jehovah and you don’t get in, you can always get into catholic heaven with a few hail mary’s And an our father
My condolanced on you mom

1

I'm sorry for your loss. Run away jw bs. You will be better off. JW is most messed religion in christainity. Followed by the mormons and catholics.

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