Agnostic.com

59 14

Does anyone truly "believe"?

One of my main gripes with organized religion is the hypocrisy of it all. It is quite convenient to cherry pick which words of god apply you and/ or others. Wouldn't someone that truly believes want to live it all without questioning, ignoring, or omitting unpleasantries?

Bunnista 4 Sep 28
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

59 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

If they did that, nobody would be left alive..the Old Testament commands people to be stoned for so many things that nobody could survive..picking up sticks or walking anywhere on Saturday, children who talk back, etc.

And the New Testament commands women to be veiled, stay at home, obey their husbands, have children, and be quiet.

9

From the late great Carl Sagan, "I don't want to believe, I want to know".

I live by that.

6

Yes, cherry picking is one problem, an even bigger problem is proving to actually not believe the good things they picked either. Examples?

If they truly believe in afterlife and paradise, why do they cry and grieve their loved ones when they die? Shouldn’t they celebrate the fact the wait is finally over and the ascension to heaven? Shouldn’t they have no worries about losing loved ones? ultimately, it’s just a matter of waiting a few years before seeing them again in paradise. Shouldn’t they embrace their own death? Shouldn’t they show no interest in the progress of medicine? Why do they even bother to cure their diseases? How come they don’t look forward to death? How come they all try to live as long as possible? Isn’t this life just an insignificant waiting room?

I know why. Deep down they all know it’s bullshit.

Yes, I have often wondered if the reason theists grieve over death so much is because they secretly fear that they and their loved ones are going to hell.

6

I prefer the Norse gods. They mostly die in Ragnarok. At least there is entertainment.

4

I for one have always struggled with the fact of life that I can't be certain of things and don't have a source of the truth. When studying Epistomology, philosophy and religion is was disheartening to see that you can subjectively cherry pick to optimize your life. That is for me the reverse of finding the firm truth and live with and by it.

No caring father would let his children live in a situation where they don't know where they live, how they came about, how their house works etc.. No region passes the simple human test of being a good father. This is one reason I do not believe in Gods - even though some like the Norse gods have some coolness to them and it's fun to watch the movies.

Stig Level 5 Sep 30, 2018

@Hercules3000 Which then became a powerful tool used by leaders of countries and empires for population behavior control.

@Hercules3000 I started but stopped soon thereafter....

4

It's worse than that. They get so upset about people not pretending to believe because they're embarrassed that they've been lying about believing their whole lives. Almost nobody actually believes.

Religion is the Emperor's New Clothes.

4

Yes, there are people who truly believe; I was one of them. Guilt by indoctrination is one of the evolutionary advantages of ideologies like Islam and Catholicism. Not being able to follow all the impossible tenets of the "faith" requires continual repentance, or death by martyrdom, in order to avoid the eternal agony of Hell. I was such a person (a Catholic) It took four decades for me to become comfortable with my secularism.

Islam indoctrination is worse (more effective) than is Catholic indoctrination, making is today's fastest growing "religion". I have extreme respect for those former followers of "the prophet" who somehow manage to apostatize.

4

The phenomenon you're talking about is a good piece of evidence that religions are an expression of human nature rather than the other way around. People don't follow religions; religions follow human beings (in the big picture). It's not really hypocrisy to believe what you believe, and then associate with the organization that comes closest to those beliefs. My experience on this site has taught me that non-believers are no less varied in their interpretation of atheism/agnosticism. People are just not that monolithic. But I think most, on all sides, are sincere, to the best of their understanding.

skado Level 9 Sep 29, 2018
3

99% of so called Christian believers have zero idea what that would truly mean..the majority Cherry Pick the bible..to suit their own personal agendas

Have you ever been around someone who is studding to be come a preacher, they have a book as large as Danial Webster's largest that is nothing but rebuttal's to address a non believer and turn them around them around!

@bandit321 I actually had an old friend..who was born again and we would debate bible passages..all the time

3

I think belief and faith are both synonymous with gullibility.

3

That's one of the reasons I left the church. I guess I read too much of the Bible and did research and paid attention to the people in the church. It became clear that all of the contradictions added up to a very flawed logic.

So one could say the church wants you to read the headlines only - not the body of the text and even less the fine print?

3

Cognitive dissonance.

3

The nature and scope of belief extends a long way beyond the concept of organized religions. Given that we have more than sixty thousands thoughts a day, it has been said that we harbor all kind of unexamined beliefs about other people, ourselves and the world in general.

3

Can anyone truly believe? I mean without being completely delusional, the bible contradicts itself!

2

A very GOOD question there.
As a wise man, can't actually remember who it was atm, once said, " Religious belief/faith is akin to a Blind Person stumbling around in a darkened room seeking the light switch in the vain hope that he/she will be able to see."
Or, as put forward by Karl Marx, " Religion is the Opiate of the Masses."

I think Marks definition was more pragmatic. But you lost me on the blind looking for the light switch . Unless he was partially blind

@Slava3 Think about the metaphor/analogy I was attempting to put across.
By blind, I meant fully blind and sightless.

2

Thats why it's called a leap of faith.. logic has very little to do with it.

2

In some case, people who truly believes is his/her own prophet. If you count yourself part of Christianity, then it stands to reason you - with the true spiritual connection - sees God for what he is and understands more clearly what he wants than other Christians; whom are confused just like Muslims and Jews.

In the case of hypocrites, there is a simple explanation for maintaining the ruse.
Imagination is a double edged sword. For all it's benefits, it can delude our minds and bodies, much like dreams do when we sleep.
What organized religious followers have realized - same as people who play dungeons and dragons, read fiction and watch movies - is that thinking super-happy thoughts makes you feel better. If you pretend to be someone/something else in a narrative supported by other people, the fantasy feels much more real.

I believe there is a link between narcissism and religious "belief".
The central message in the Abrahamic religions, as far as i understand it; is how special you (the believer) are.
Literally, the purpose of creation is YOU.

Wild beasts groom each other. It serves a practical function but it's also comfort. I believe that is what religion comes down to. Animals comforting each other by stroking their egos, instead of their bodies.
By itself, the addiction to this stimulation can warp the mind; compelling the addicts to defend the source of their buzz against all logic.

Plus, religion has had time to evolve it's game.
Adding sly parts into the doctrine, for example; "people will mock you". Then when sane people inevitably do because what you're saying is completely irrational, somehow, this anticipated overlap of fiction and reality strengthens the delusion. Validates it.

Of course, this is all guesswork

Actually, I do not think that it is all guesswork. I think that there are valid scientific reasons, logical reasons and explanations for the way people act in the religion I think psychology has addressed it well and so have people like Dawkins who understand the religious delusion and the need for reinforcements in that false idea less it fall away from there conscience.

@HumanistSinger It's guesswork for me. I have done no in-dept research nor have any experience with religious beliefs. So I am left with guesswork from casual interactions.

2

drive by an abortion clinic see old men picketing

2

Oh, yes, there are many religious "true believers" who have made absolute beliefs in a religious dogma the defining core of their definition of self and of their entire life.That commitment is so strong that they are able to rationalize questions and discrepancies away easily with illogic and false reasoning.

2

It's almost as if the big bluster of the believers is all there to keep them believing and not to convert you. It's like they say all this stuff because they need reinforcement in order to believe.

2

There are true believers, but the problem with the ambiguity of most (all?) religious dogma is that they are not even internally consistent, and often are self-contradictory. By definition, you cannot follow everything that the religion says because they tell you to do contradictory things.

If anyone followed biblical law, they would be in prison.

2

Atheists can be just as hypocritical as Believers.

I personally can't call myself an atheist but Agnostic seems to fit just fine.

@frisbee212 I normally don't call myself anything, I just don't think there really has to be a name for it.
But if I had to put a lable to it, I would call myself and agnostic atheist.
Atheist, because I don't believe in anything supernatural or any type of diety.
the agnostic part is because I can't prove it either way.

2

It seems that most people create their own idea of what god is and what he/she/it cares about. Coincidentally, their god always agrees with them.

Marz Level 7 Sep 29, 2018
2

I have found that most "believers" are insurance believers that use religion as their bludgeon to repel their fears and insecurities.

1

Sadly they do truly believe because that's the basis of all religion. You can't have an imaginary friend without believing that you do. As for the end result, if the afterlife is supposed to be so great you'd think they'd all be committing suicide to get there as soon as possible.

lerlo Level 8 Oct 7, 2018
1

I do think the are powers outside of our understanding, whether they are gods aliens or some other form of spirit or energy who knows

Big times yes. But it isa deep subject.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:189310
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.