Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

And when you understand that morality is a work product of society, not of religious faith ... then religious faith cannot depart very much from societal morality or it would be censured by society as ... immoral. As the Catholic Church is currently finding out.

The Bible is a vague template that is "timeless" in the sense that it can be adapted to the needs of the moment, so I think a lot of its moral teachings are just cherry-picked and have the host society's values projected onto them. "Thou shalt not kill" for example is such a universal concept across all societies that it's really not profound, it's kind of a "well, duh" sort of admonition.

Then there's the problem that the Bible is full of bad moral concepts. For example it doesn't decry slavery, it assumes it as a given and provides instructions to be both a good slave and a good slave-owner. In other words it's a product of its time and leads from behind. It's blind to the injustices of its era.

That said, sure, there are passages one can admire. I memorized Romans 13 as a child (the so-called "love chapter" ) and still admire its teaching for what it is. There are various Biblical aphorisms I can agree with. But neither is there any extraordinary wisdom or morality in its pages. It's just another book.

The bible isn't the standard, it's a collection of stories. I no more value 'teachings ' in the bible than I do from a Harry Potter novel.

I also take issue with the notion that we can take values from religious communities, they take values from the good aspects of humanity.

It's a good history book. It may be a little biased. The difference is which version you have.

There are universal ethics that have squat to do with the bible. No indiscriminate killing, etc. The other nitpicky crap in the bible is mostly used for evil. The lessons of the bible include being pro-rape, pro-slavery, pro-genocide, and generally just a reflection of some of the worst ideas floating around the mediterranean a few thousand years ago.

Only the kind teachings of the Bible. mostly seen in the New Testament. I am all for the don't hit people in the head with a big stick, forgiveness, judge not lest you be judged, charity, love the sinner, hate the sin and love thy neighbor. These are things one can learn from parents. However, the Bible was the most violent book I have ever read. I read it for Western Civilization when I was in getting my undergrad.

i do not find mostly good teachings in the bible (and of course you have not said which bible; i have not read the christian one, but everything i've heard about it seems awfully confused). the bible with which i am familiar has a story in it that teaches one to welcome strangers -- but these days everyone interprets that story as teaching one to be homophobic. the same bible teaches one that it's okay to murder one's innocent son as long as one hears voices. come to think of it, it's also okay to get one's father drunk and rape him. i like the story of david and tamar, but onan is confusing. i don't think of the bible as a book of teachings. i think of it as a sometimes interesting, sometimes less so book of fantabulous stories, most of them with anti-morals. so "values" is the wrong word here, for me at least. you can probably find better teachings in a stephen king novel (i can't swear to that, as i don't enjoy the horror genre, but king seems like a nice, smart man, and i don't know a lot about the guys who wrote the bible).

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Yes, it's all in the interpretation. As a U.U we believe there is much to learn from the Bible. I definitely don't believe it is infallible, but it is a very interesting piece of literature that can be interpreted in a very Progressive Way.

No. No.

I could reject Harry Potter's supernatural elements and still get more from the series than I could from the Bible

It's no wonder they overlap. The "divine wisdom" of the religious was simply stolen from, or modeled after, the common sense of common people.
One of the more annoying assertions from the religious is that non-believers get their morals from Christianity, when in actual reality it's the other way around.
Communities don't function because religion imposes values onto people. Religion flourishes in communities with strong social connections, and then takes credit for the prosperity, as it does for each and every single positive achievement of good people.

I value plenty of things in the bible. No murder, no theft, no flaunting your faith, etc.
Not as divine wisdom or authoritarian ethics. It just oh, so coincidentally happens to overlap with my conscience as a social mammal.

Nah, I gave up on using religion as a source of morals. Too much hate, ignorance and corruption. The only reason Christianity seems to have developed ethics is becuase the societies they exist in demand ethical progress.

The loving thy enemy as thyself parts? The do unto others as you would have them do unto you parts? Sure. I can go along with that stuff. The selling your wives and daughters in to slavery parts? The divinely sanctioned genocide parts? Not so much.

The only thing I really took from the bible is "Treat others as you want to be treated." That pretty much says it all. I disregard the rest.

I find bits of it helpful because I already know the Bible and I'm able to use it to help my friends consider higher perspectives since they believe in it, but I would never recommend it to anyone looking for truth. I wouldn't suggest any of my children read it to gain good insights. The problem comes that there are some powerful truths mixed in with the truly bad stuff and people tend to believe it's the infallibe word of God. That's what makes it dangerous because people are justifying things that they could easily understand are wrong. We would be better off if every copy of the Bible was burned.

There are sociological elements in the bible that are of a pragmatic nature. "Judge not, lest ye be judged.", "Do not bear false witness against your neighbor." (lying AND gossiping...if you did not see it yourself, you are "bearing false witness" when you pass it on as fact.

I used to think that the Bible had a positive message but then I really started looking at what was in the Bible and it is mostly evil. People who haven't read the Bible but just listen to what others say about it can be easily fooled.

I didn't read the book. I'm into Pratchett and Cornwell.

Definitely, and fwiw trust that God hates religion even more than we do. Virtually none of the things that Christians even believe are anywhere to be found in the Bible. [abarim-publications.com] is one good source imo

I particularly like the part where it's okay to beat your slave as long as that slave doesn't die, but the part where the greatest of Israel's kings orders a soldier to his death in order to bang his wife is interesting too.

There are so many good morality lessons....

The best principles (obviously my opinion) apply universally and aren't differentiated by whether one is male or female. The 'Ten Commandments' for example, embody some valid moral principles, all of which are instinctual and self-regulating anyway. Commandments are directed at men and as though men are natural human monitors.

I believe that all of our 'social ills' are directly or indirectly rooted in the advent of male domination and exclusivity in leadership about 6,000 years ago. The supernatural elements of Biblical 'teachings' are less damaging than the rules of conduct for males and societies propagated by patriarch's claiming supernatural bases.

I think stories are valuable in and of themselves so I would say yes, we can learn from the Bible’s stories. It’s all in the interpretation of the reader though, not some authority who is dictating to you it’s message.

The bit about beating yout slave was very informative ....

I think there are good proverbs and things, same as most religions, just convincing people to take them at that and leave the rest is tough. And where do you draw your line between love your neighbor and hate you family?

I value all cultural artifacts when understood in the context of the time and place in which they were created.

There are certain values which are universal; the Bible is not the only authority for them. The prohibition on killing people, for instance. There are other values in the Bible which most people reject, and rightly so. Support for slavery and genocide, for instance. You really have to cherry pick which ones you support and which ones you reject.