Right on. You said that perfectly.

Of course this is all assuming that the teacher doesn't have some sort of breakdown and shoot kids anyway ... Who then shoots the teacher ? Armed pupils ?

what is your solution ? if you have any

@Laurastevens Allow the CDC to research gun violence.

There are many independent studies linking feelings of emasculation to displays of hyper masculinity in males. In other words, the social construct linking masculinity with gun use is very likely easily linkable to these catastrophes as well as the link to bullying and threats to social status as a triggering event.

Once we start funding actual research, we can find ways to deal with this that may be as simple as targeting gun advertising to women and the weak to decouple the link to displays of hyper masculinity. Perhaps we can find ways to effectively deal with bullying by teaching conflict resolution and communication to our youth.

No matter what, step one is government funded research into the area and the fact that the lobbyists bought something to prevent this is atrocious.

"Trump shilling for the NRA, who pays him millions in kickbacks for endorsements." What does "shilling for the NRA" mean? And, "kickbacks for endorsements."? What the hell does that mean? Trump likely got a sizable chunk of change for his presidential campaign, but I have no idea what your statement means.
Would you mind explaining in plain English?

@dahermit "Trump doesn't want to risk disturbing the NRA, which spent more than $30 million in 2016 to support him and defeat his opponent, Hillary Clinton. (These figures come from the Center for Responsive Politics.)"

[latimes.com]

@birdingnut JUST AS I POSTED...He got money from the NRA. How the f...k does that translate into, "shilling for the NRA", "kickbacks for endorsements"? You used a whole lot of words, unrelated to a simple: "NRA gave him money."

@dahermit Shill: an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others. I.e., when high school shooting survivors met with Trump and asked him to pass sensible gun laws, he told them he wanted to arm the teachers instead. He takes money from the NRA, so promotes their agenda.

To quote from the article link I just posted, "President Trump, in a pro-forma public statement on the Parkland, Fla., shooting, ordered flags on government buildings to be flown at half-mast through Monday, but didn't call for any reconsideration of the nation's inexcusably lax gun laws. Last February, he scrapped an Obama-era regulation making it tougher for people with mental illnesses to buy a gun.

The 2016 election marked a high point in electoral spending by the NRA and its affiliate, the NRA Institute for Legislative Action, with donations totaling $54 million. Much of that was devoted to the presidential campaign. The total so far this year comes to only $1.65 million, though the campaign season has not quite begun and the candidate roster for November is still in flux."

I second that hear, hear!

@atheist His act of cowardice will stain him the rest of his life. He will forever be the Barney Fife of all time in my mind.

@atheist Another factor for police to think about, the state population is a melting pot of 21 million permanent residents from all over the the world. Add to that 115 million tourists per year from all over the world. Anything can happen everyday. Where else in the world have you heard of a person getting their face eaten by a person high on Flakka? This stuff only happens in the movies or in Floriduh...

I’d say this ‘so called guard’ knew he was out gunned. I doubt he was lugging an M-16 around… It’s the weapons, not the kids ..or even the guard.. I was having a rough time during my stint in various classrooms ..divorce, loss of home… I’d occasionally wonder if the district knew ‘what a deal’ they had in me … as I’d have charged toward a shooter, expecting to die - but give it all I had. Sad shit … and until someone's witnessed an “Active Shooter Drill” in a large middle school, they may not know WTF they’re talking about..

@Varn The so called armed guard was a 30 year veteran armed police officer. He was a Deputy for the Broward County Sheriff's office on duty at the school. He was also a military veteran. He chose to do nothing against this kid. So he has blood on his hands because he chose retirement over being courageous. These people are trained to handle shooters with AR's. They wear body armor. He could have at least put a few rounds in the air to let the shooter know there was an armed person on the property. Anything would have been better than to do nothing.

[cnn.com]

@kensmile4u He’s a perfect example of why armed school employees can’t stop this, with their Glocks He was obviously no more courageous than our Republican President, Republican dominated House of Reps, Republican controlled Senate or our Republican slanted Supreme Court. They’re all cowards ~

I'll go volunteer as an armed guard. I am a firearms expert according to my degree. I've also been shot before and was able to keep my cool. I have had extensive training though.

@jayneonacobb Three questions Are not AR-15’s considered ‘long rifles,’ thus exempt from background checks, being classified as “hunting rifles?” I was in a Walmart a couple days ago where a guy walked out with shotgun, the conversation led me to believe that was also a ‘same day’ purchase.

Do AR-15’s cause their bullets to ‘tumble,’ causing more damage by ‘tearing through a body’ rather than punching a clean hole?

Third, I ‘was told’ around here there was “never really an assault weapons ban,” though every outside news source describes there having been one in place for 12 years I believe? ...I’m trusting you on these

@Varn all states require background checks, not all have waiting periods. The second amendment does not say hunting anywhere. It says arms. An AR is not responsible for the tumble, that is a property of the .223/.556 round. A mini 14 or bolt action chambered in either cartridge has the same Tumble effect because it is a property of the round. A .300 WSM on the other hand will blow a hole in a soft target big enough to put your head in. Assault weapons is a made up term. Any weapon used to commit assault is an assault weapon. Assault is illegal. The actual ban only limited the production of new fully automatic weapons. It did not stop people from buying or selling them with a class 3 FFL.

@jayneonacobb Good ol' questions ... often leading to more
I’d heard that imitation military weapons, like those most commonly used in school slaughters, have been designated ‘long rifles,’ thus having no waiting period. Do they also need background checks, or is that only for ‘hand’ guns?

...it’s been awhile, but yes, the mini-14 was what I’d been interested in, with it’s .223 ‘nato round.’ Decided I had all I needed to protect my family up our deadend road, so passed on it. In the 33 years I/ we lived up there, never once did I even need to brandish a weapon. I slept better knowing I had some, though..

I remember reading that the military concluded it was more detrimental to viciously wound the enemy, causing a greater amount of resources to be spent caring for them than ignoring a clean kill. I thought a ‘less aggressive’ rifling caused the tumble effect, not the bullet.. Man, if these civilian military imitations are further taring these kids apart like their military counterparts, that’s heinous…

I thought fully automatic weapons had been outlawed for decades now? I realize there are various ‘collector permits,’ and that both their cost and the intensive permitting process kept them from most mass murders.

So the former ‘ban’ had only covered fully auto anything, but as long as it was semi-auto, they were still made..? Boy, the banana clips and all… I’ve known for years that ‘kits’ were available that ‘easily’ converted semi to full auto, I guess “Good Guys” would never think of doing such a thing..

And yes, the Second Amendment is far too ambiguous, apparently long overdue for amending, clarification and modernizing. Otherwise, it remains almost biblical … with too many arguing over it’s many interpretations ~

@Varn oh where to begin... let's start with accurate terminology. The NATO rifle round is actually the .556. The difference is cartridge dimensions and performence. A .556 chamber can accept .556 and .223, a .223 can not accept .556.

Yes, all guns require a background check to purchase from an FFL dealer. That includes long guns. Some states have waiting periods, some don't.

I'm glad that you have never needed your gun to defend your self, family or property. I have had to draw my weapon seven times in order to do that. It is a terrible and horrifying experience which I will never get used to.

I can build any weapon I want. I don't build weapons that are currently illegal for me to posess though, even though I don't agree with many of those restrictions. I am a law abiding citizen, regardless of my beliefs.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

That is clear as a bell to me, but then again I looked up every word in that sentence before I formed my opinion of it.

@jayneonacobb Not too concerned about the NATO caliber, my interest had been 25 years ago… But the tumbling effect on the current militarized civilian accessible (in the USA) rifled weapons… I think this is a very important aspect of such weaponry; hunting rifles need not ‘tumble.’

So there is same-day-service with ‘instant background checks’ on the current militarized civilian accessible weapons used in the majority of US civilian shootings - dependant on which state you’re in. I though Federal firearm regulations applied to all states in our union...

So the fully auto conversion kits are readily available … and it’s a personal choice rather one follows the rules.. or not...

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” I hadn’t looked it up, but in reading - it completely meshes with a previously posted link: [rawstory.com]

A “State,” not ‘the Nation.’ Then said Militia enforcing slave checks with armed people making those checks … or ‘my state’s not gonna join this union!’ I’ll stop listening to ..that guy and his dog

...and, I’ve had enough.. If this debate’s boiled down to fewer fingers than on one hand ..is there a point … beyond my sickend anger over the continuing slaughter of our innocent youth ..so far beyond that of other countries as to be unique to our nation … under god ~

@Varn under God wasn't added until the 1950's. Those guns are actually demilitarized, an AR15 is a civilian version of a military firearm. You have to wait for a tax stamp for full auto, or get a class 3 FFL, which is expensive and requires a minimum of 6 months of red tape. A state is a country as defined by law. The United States is a confederation of states. Federal law is enforced on a state level, but most states require their own background checks in addition to the federal one. That interpritation way mesh with your feelings, but it is inaccurate as it does not use the definitions of the words used in the second amendment.

And we should consider these shooters, these antisocial psychopaths-in-waiting who for years fantasize then plot such atrocities… They know the school, how to get the weapon in, where the most vulnerable students are, where the campus officer is … as well as which teacher to kill, which period, which floor, which hallway… This proposal is a crime in itself!

Can we remove security from the Whitehouse and Congress and just arm 20% of the employees?

@DJVJ311 The government can do whatever it wants. Would that be effective, no. For me, it would just make more sense to remove the guns. Security is likely a lot easier when people are fighting with tasers and machetes.

Australia hasn't had a fatal mass shooting since 1996. Here's what it did [usat.ly] via @usatoday

@birdingnut oh no. Not Australia again. This is the US. Different country, culture, political structure, constitution, bill of right, population density, social make up, independence which was earned through war, economy, etc. ad nauseum. I really wish people would stop trying to make one dimensional comparisons.

Armed bears would be a big threat once they got hungry

@birdingnut Did Australia have 315,000,000 guns in civilian hands before the ban?

I support your right to have a shot gun for hunting. What part of "well regulated militia" are you?

An armed bear would have been just as useful as the police officer who did not confront the gunman.

even drop bears?

Arm the bears and bear hunting would be be more exciting

@Taijiguy LOL! You sound like a Trump person! The US has one of the highest rates of death by firearm in the developed world, according to World Health Organization data. [cnn.com]

@birdingnut and guess what? If you take out four cities, we drop to 3rd in the world.

@HippieChick58 there's a, very important comma that is being ignored by people who interpret the 2nd that way

@Taijiguy Then what are US citizens doing with anything more than cap & ball muskets..? And where’d slavery go..? And what of the current voters who aren’t 21 year old landed gentry.? Our constitution was meant to evolve; it’s time...

@Varn then evolve it, but stop trying to violate it. But here's a warning; as soon as you establish "inalienable rights" as something the government can give and take, you establish them all similarly. You should think about that. The 2nd is what offers protection for all the rest. I realize that takes a mental cognizance that exceeds most people's capabilities in an elevated emotional state, but it's worth trying.

@Taijiguy I’m envisioning a paranoia loop… How’d this nation survive for two centuries without machine guns in the hands of psychopaths..? Hunting rifles and the occasional handgun, if needed. The ‘all or nothing’ argument and it’s aftermath is a failed example of selective interpretation. We govern ourselves with an evolving constitution by the will of the people; those incapable of understanding evolution or insisting we live for eternity by the words on a stone tablet are the very kind of people we’re ‘here’ to get beyond.

@Varn I've said this before, and I'll say it again: this is why gun rights activists ignore your arguments, you're so completely uninformed on the facts. I challenge you to Google "machine gun laws". I'll wait.

@Taijiguy Seems you’re good at ignoring a lot more than facts … as the bodies pile up for ..freedom ~

@Varn says the guy claiming we need to outlaw guns that have been outlawed since 1934.

...and it’s not just a school setting.. If a battlefield of country music concert goers didn’t have enough concealed fire power to ‘take down the bad guy,’ who could..?

@Varn My brother and I I used to hunt together. The last time we went we met other hunters who explained that they were "sound hunters." We had never heard the term so we asked. "Oh. That's what the really good hunters do. We hear a sound, we shoot it." Which explained the falling branches we'd noticed a few minutes earlier. We immediately left the woods and never went hunting again.

@Varn that was a "gun free zone" those people didn't have the ability to be armed, despite the law being. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

@Dick_Martin those people are idiots. Safe gun handeling and operations dictates that you must visually confirm a target before firing upon it. If they went through the hunters safety course and passed they know better. I doubt the veracity of your story.

@jayneonacobb ...there had to have been metal detectors and pat-downs to have that been a ‘gun free zone.’ Guess there shouldn’t be any ‘gun free zones’? Funny, the Republican Convention was a “Gun Free Zone!” … I wonder why..? As for the antiquated & ambiguous wording of the second amendment, it needs amending ~

@jayneonacobb There ya go. I ask you to provide backup for your statements and you attack me. So I tell a story and you attack me again. It's all you know how to do. First, yes they were idiots. Second, that would have been way back in the 1950s when rules were a lot different everywhere. Third, I know people who have taken safety courses and their attitude was "those stupid f'n fags and libtards..I know what I am doin'. I don't need no lessons. Think I'm stoopid???" well, yes. I do think they're stupid.

@jayneonacobb you raise a good point. What do you feel about "gun free zones"? Should they be allowed? If so, wouldn't a school and a concert be two really good places to be gun free? If not, why should the NRA have their headquarters and their conventions be gun free? Shouldn't they walk the walk if they are going to talk the talk?

@Dick_Martin I don't like the idea of gun free zones. They are easy targets for criminals. Hence why you never hear about a mass shooting at the shot show.

@Dick_Martin I didn't attack you, I just stated that I don't believe you.

@Varn well, no, a gun free zone is only a place where you are not allowed to have a gun. Like a bank. My bank doesn't have a metal detector or a pat down procedure, but it is a felony to possess a gun in one without being a security guard or police officer. As for the hypocrisy of that party, it disgusts me. Just like the left's hypocrisy of supporting gun control, but having armed security.

@jayneonacobb by the way, has it occurred to you to wonder why banks are gun-free and their security people don't have guns? Have you ever thought through how that policy came to be?

@jayneonacobb huh? that makes no sense.

@Dick_Martin I'm sorry you don't follow. Brinks security routinely enters my bank with guns on their hips. It makes sense to me that you would want responsible, law abiding armed citizens to have guns everywhere. Has it occurred to you that because the second amendment explicitly states that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed means exactly that?

This is the reason for automatic firing guns. They each have a machine gun now.This is great for jungle warfare and city fighting.

This officer was a military veteran. Afterwards he spent 30 years as a Broward County deputy. They wear body armor. They are trained how to respond in school shooter situations. He actually chose to do nothing. He was fired today because his Boss explained that the officer was trained and sworn to attack and kill the gunman. Instead he did nothing. It is a supreme act of cowardice for a police officer to let all those kids get shot without doing a single thing. I have family who are police officers. They are ashamed of the officer's cowardice.

@kensmile4u Do you have a source that mentions military service? I can't find any reference to it.

[sun-sentinel.com]

@DJVJ311 I'm glad to help. Here is a link to a CNN article I provided in a comment elsewhere on this post. It clearly states he was a military veteran. This fact was also stated again in the Orlando Sentinel newspaper today.
[cnn.com]

I'm pleasantly surprised by your defense of this man. My one bit of criticism though is; hand guns have a distinct advantage over a long gun in enclosed spaces. They are more maneuverable. That being said, the first rule ever is go home alive. If he had no back up then he is not capable of safely neutralizing the threat.

@jayneonacobb I'm not saying he's necessarily in the clear, just not enough information yet. There are just too many people who haven't really considered the situation and passing judgment. It is really easy and comforting to blame people when you haven't run through scenarios. As far as handgun vs rifle, I personally think in this situation there are enough factors to give the rifle the advantage, but that's really neither here nor there.

@jayneonacobb people, in particular those who endorse gun control, should be aware of the fact that cops have no obligation to protect you! None! [mobile.nytimes.com]

@Taijiguy yup. They often show up after you're dead anyway. Useless. (Not cops, just people's expectations of them.)

Or they shot to wound and only when confronted one to one may they have fired directly at someone else.

Are you one of those Russian Trolls I’ve been hearing about … stirring the pot, hoping someone like me will admit or describe how fucked up my nation is … making it appear to the world that ‘our’ form of democracy doesn't work … so we might pretend to elect a so-called president … who can steal election after election … even installing a literal puppet placeholder till he’s ‘legally’ able to run again … prior to eliminating term limits soas to become the Czar.? Honestly, you look the part

You have to be 18 to buy a scratch ticket or long gun in the US. It's not "over the counter" as a background check and state ID are required to purchase a firearm from a store. Even in private sales the buyer is legally required to provide ID to the seller. I make them sing a contract which states that they are not a felon or otherwise incapable of owning a gun according to us law. just in case I need to defend my self in court.

@jayneonacobb
[facebook.com]

@wotsthat it is not legal to purchase a firearm if you are under 18. They both committed a felony. I've always been ID when buying guns at gun shows. If his mom bought the gun for him which she probably did off camera, as we do not see an excange of money, then it is perfectly legal. I bought my first gun at 11. My dad had to physically hand the seller my money. That makes it a legal transaction.

It’s also his NRA backers way of creating a diversion.. Get us debating over some bullshit plan ..while diverting our attention from the logical goal - of removing military weaponry from circulation.

Talk about the school to prison pipeline. lets eliminate one step, the school part.

Well, we could just institue reasonable gun control? Instead the republicans seem to think that an old west attitude towards self protection is best. Hell, let’s just arm the kids. No one will get hurt then!@HippieChick58

Nothing’s perfect and a person with antisocial personality is disturbed by definition, but hardly stupid. Active gun law enforcement would reduce the number of incidents if the law addressed the mentally ill. However, no matter what you do, if someone wants to hurt students, they can. That doesn’t mean you can’t reduce the number of incidents.@atheist

Not enough I have seen people who carried a weapon all their life freeze when it came to shoot.. It takes mental training and a willingness to acept the results which could be criminal charges. This is what makes me laugh about the people who go armed to the mall and think now they are safe. There is a great deal that goes into a shooting and long court cases can be one of them.

I've been shot too, that doesn't make me an expert on guns, my degree does. I am far more educated on guns than any soldier is required to be. Their op-ed is just that, an opinion. Opinions don't require facts to support them. Experties, on the other hand, does.

@jayneonacobb Semper Fi