Have been shot at, never hit. I was a bank teller back in the days when we had guns in our drawers. We gave them up voluntarily, in fact we imposed their removal on our employers. Less chance an armed robber will shoot you if he knows you are unarmed, plus the chance of your own gun being taken and used against you. Also, if I have a gun, and he doesn't and I get shot. Whose gun did I get shot by?
Most people who have a gun would be shot by the time they get to use it because there is a mentality about shooting someone that if not ingrained in the shooter would delay their response long enough to become the one shot. This has even occurred among police and in the military. Many who believe that just because they own a gun that they would be protected are just fooling themselves.It takes practice and a mental conditioning to shoot another .
I lived in Europe a long time and even though guns were not easy to come by every bank I went to had a thick plexiglass window in front of the teller. When I returned to the US nothing. I asked about this and was told it was about PR. They didn't want the customers to feel the tellers weren't open to the customers. Image before safety which is still the case of image prevailing.
@JackPedigo The same in Oz, we did have an incident in Melbourne years ago, a reasonably violent holdup, as the bandits were leaving with about 10 grand in cash, one of the staff fired off shutters that sealed the staff away from the public. One of the bandits had his arm caught and eventually received $400,000 in compensation.
@Marine I ask people as I point my finger "If you have a gun, are you capable of pulling the trigger and shooting a person". No what if scenarios, if you can not say yes, do not buy a gun.
@silverotter11 they did show this grandmother from this moon sect weapon madness clinging to her AH 15 ( or what's it called) saying she feels "save" with it. Insanity pure.
@Rugglesby I received nothing like that and was 36% crippled according to the biased American insurance tables used by Australian courts. Loss of an arm is only worth about 10%. I doubt that the bank thief lost his arm.
@FrayedBear no, from memory he got a broken shoulder. The laws have since changed, these days he may not get anything. For instance, if 2 guys rob a bank and one gets killed, the other is held accountable for his death. In Victoria now, victims of violent crime can only get $70,000 compensation, yet perps injured in Jail can get tens of thousands in compensation. Makes no sense.
@Rugglesby "One of the bandits had his arm caught and eventually received $400,000 in compensation."
That's one more broken parts of the system that needs fixed.
@Potsandpans I am pretty sure that has been addressed to some extent now, it was a long time ago, my opinion is people in prison should not get compensation.
@FrayedBear I take it you heard about the pensioner here (UK) who killed an armed intruder and is on trial for murder now? [telegraph.co.uk] It's a weird world!
@girlwithsmiles That is wrong, we had one here a few years ago, the guy was charged, but found not guilty and regarded rightfully as a bit of a hero. The guy was older and protecting his elderly wife as well form memory.
@girlwithsmiles What really disturbs me though is the fact the report says that he is still in gaol. The picture of the 6 blokes in blue suits does look like jobs for the boys.
@FrayedBear & @Rugglesby yes it's a sad case, the guy he killed was a career criminal and had a wife and kids living off the proceeds. But the pensioner was defending himself in his own home, I'd like to see him acquitted. Wow, the Aussie guy was over 78? that's a good effort!
@FrayedBear Oh sorry, was talking about Rugglesby's comment about the guy (in Australia) that was older and protecting his wife, as the guy in UK was 78: I thought the Aussie guy must have been pretty old!
School teachers signed up for a teaching job not a security job!
I know several teachers who are well qualified and would likely be more than a match for a kid with an AR15. Hell most mass shooters are cowards and wouldn’t even contemplate shooting up a place if they thought someone would be shooting back.
Besides the burden of being expected to handle a high-powered weapon and in crisis NOT accidentally shoot any of their students, there's the danger of how to secure their weapon. Students would certainly know the weapons were somewhere there in the classroom, increasing the odds that occasionally, one would find a way to get their hands on one.
I agree.....The info on which teacher has a weapon would not only be know by the students, but maybe the students family or friends. Now you have a teacher that is a high target of opportunity for robbery to get a weapon.
@DUCHESSA In the past? I have heard what a terrible idea that is because one shot through the skin of the plane could result in terrible consequences. These people will risk anyone in the pursuit of their idiocy.
@DUCHESSA Thank you. This is another example of communication issues. This is often problematic (for all sides). I was agreeing with you, not criticizing.
@DUCHESSA I agree and this is a part of one's body language. I am sometimes guilty of bad body language. I had a former partner that was an expert in grammar and she would read my letters/comments and point out where I went wrong. During the time we were together I got a lot of stuff printed.
I once heard where a number of people could be looking at a widow display and everyone would have a different thing they saw. We will and do have that problem here.
Totally agree! And who guarantees one of those armed teachers isn't going to have a psychotic break?!?! Perhaps we should have 2 armed teachers in each classroom.......??!!!
Apparently, unless they have a history of violence a psychotic episode alone is unlikely to make them kill: [psychologytoday.com]
@AnneWimsey bring kids into this world? Do you think I'm psychotic? Lols. It's the psychopaths I hate, and I don't live in the US.
I have shot a RPG and AR15, and ridden in an Abrams tank. Civilians don't need that crap, but the NRA and the military industrial complex keeps churning out this stuff and needs to find a market for it. We don't go to war for cause anymore, we go to war to support the business of war. Gabillionaires are making money off of war and misery. This needs to stop.
Agreed. Dumb idea.
I completely agree...the POWERS THAT BE, are grasping at straws! The country has gone mad! Can't you just see cross fire in a school full of scattering schoolchildren? If the gun is locked up by the time it could be retrieved, many people could die! What teacher can be focusing on her class room studies and keeping an eye out for someone that might show up with a gun? She/he would even get the blame if the shooter couldn't be stopped! This is a disaster and beyond shortsighted! And MORE IMPORTANTLY, what kind of message does it send to young kids...that they must have armed people protecting them at school, because it is a dangerous place! This is insane! This is not Barbarianville! And it may be a dark day, but...it is not the dark ages!
@AdorkableMe One thing is gun control and a very different is to disarm the population. Anyway, the kids will enter a gun to the school anytime they want..I could tell you the different ways they have to fool the metal detectors.
@DUCHESSA it just seems sad to me that the romanticism with guns...is a driving force in the media. It is no wonder that young men (mostly), behave as if it is a cool thing to 'show off,' with! Then, kids with developmental problems, pick them up and kill people when they are just struggling with growing up! Early education about guns and how they kill, might be in order!
@Freedompath If you think the kids in the schools get guns to show off....you live in another planet....Again, don't blame the decent people for what's going on and look for the root of the problem.
@DUCHESSA. What is your idea of the 'root of the problem?' I have 3 sons, who went through teen age years...and they came out ok in the end! But, their teen years was a nightmare! As well as many of their friends and this was not the glorified 'gun' years! I never blamed 'anyone' for what is taking place around the glorification of guns! And, decent people have killed right here in this very country, as well as the next ones around here! I keep a distance from anyone that promotes his gun ownership as a badge of honor! But, I am aware of the violent 'video games' and the constant 'call' on 'our second amendment rights' justifing gun ownership...'in order to protect one's self' from their enemy who most likely is their neighbor!
Because these people haven't been exposed to people much further than a 50-100 mile distance! In this area, people have no knowledge about people 2 counties over! If you believe that 'decent' people don't kill other people with their gun, you are the one who is living in la la, land and could use some knowledge on the nature of human beings! And, this did not cover the accidental gun deaths!
@Freedompath I was a NYC teacher for over 26 years; the root of the problem is -for instance- ignoring the bullying some kids endure, lack of discipline, no paying attention to the special needs of the kids, no crisis intervention, condoning bad behavior, no evaluating those kids who enjoy torturing their classmates and saying "I didn't mean it."....no expelling the students who shouldn't be in the school. The list is long
@DUCHESSA you named the problems, but the 'root' of the problem wasn't there! It is not so simple, is it?
There was a deputy at that school in Florida. A trained law enforcement professional with decades of experience. He had body armor, a variety of less than lethal weapons, and a pistol. This man was as prepared for a major event like that as any person there could be. He hesitated for 4 minutes. 240 seconds, 240 bullets, 12 dead children before he tried to do anything at all.
How in fuck is a social studies teacher supposed to fight off a gunman?
There would be more collateral damage, outnumbering the lives saved. Probably by a factor of 10.
Everyone is also saying that an Armed security guard is the answer. Obviously not, because parkland had one who did nothing!
And he is already answering to the authorities for his no-action. In NYC the assassin would have been killed right then and there.
OK, the idiots allow teachers to be armed and a school shooting like the last one in Florida where 17 students were killed goes down. What do the cops know when they invade the scene? I'm sure they will immediately recognize the black man with a gun as a teacher. Of course they will. Their extensive training gives them ESP. There is nothing to fear here, folks. Let's go ahead and arm the teachers.
The above is just one senario. There are more.
Obviously... There needs to be a very well thought out plan and questions like yours addressed... IF we are to arm teachers... Which I do not advocate. Where I live, schools all have a resource officer. This is a Sworn officer who is assigned to that school. He or she is a street cop in every way. Just reassigned. They get to know the kids and staff... The normal rythums of the day, and are attuned to it all. This was the case even back when I was in high school... What little time that amounted too. I hate to admit that was the late 60's and into 70-71. We knew where his office was, his name, what he looked like, and perhaps best of all... That he was not the enemy. ( think of the times)
I think a uniformed officer is a better choice. He or she may not be everywhere at all times... And represents an additional cost. Those are the cons. Ive already mentioned the pros. This officer has had training that teachers do not get even if they take serious firearms training. Ill take that any day.
And don't blame Trump for this idea. Is not his. After Columbine arming the teachers was an every day question / discussion in our schools.We, the teachers, refused this idea 100%.
Yes. ..we can hardly blame trump for any ideas...this brain had an empty space in that part of his brain!
This stuck out at me: "...According to an FBI study about active shooter situations, police officers who engaged the shooter were wounded or killed in 46.7 percent of the incidents. We’re talking about individuals who are specifically trained to respond to these situations and not teachers trained over the the weekend or during summer break...." And just so to complete the reference, here's the FBI document on that actual study (as linked by the article): [fbi.gov]
I'm hoping that this article managed to reach some on the pro-gun side. Although, as someone else on this site has said: "If they're not gonna budge with dead kids, they're not gonna budge."
Who is to say that a teacher won't have a head explosion and start shooting the pupils.
The whole ideal is just a sign of how insane this country has become, totally devoid of rational thought. The right is dragging us down because they are more and more running away from rational thought. Closing themselves in a bubble of a made up reality where facts are attacked and distorted so much that stupid ideals like these start to sound good. After a good dose of Fox news and Alex Jones they are ready to buy into anything thrown their way, the more hate the better.
I taught military cops and others as a small arms instructor during Vietnam. I haven't been shot... I know a lot of people who were shot at, sometimes hit, and at least one guy who blew most of his own bicep off pulling his cocked and locked service pistol. (1911) From my perspective, safety was and is the number one concern. A few years ago, we had a (civilian) instructor shot and killed demonstrating a poor practice. A year later, in the next class of potential troopers, another instructor was demonstrating what went wrong, and promptly shot himself, in the exact same way. There were people who really, REALLY should know better. Teachers are NOT cops, nor instructors of small arms or the use of deadly force. Not the ones we are talking about. Then there is the question of, how do you make damned sure the weapons are secured at all times? And if they ARE really secure, how do you use it in a unexpected hurry? You don't. If we MUST have deadly force in schools, I want it a fully trained and sworn peace officer. Not the gym teacher. My two cents.
That reasoning would also infer that only LEOs should be allowed to conceal carry. Are you saying do away with the second amendment then?
It galls me when someone says to own a gun is a GOD given right. Nobody has a right to own anything. I don't care what the founding fathers thought. They were wrong about so many things and times have changed. They also thought they had a GOD given right to own other people. Does that make it right?
The Constitution & BILL of Rights ALL 12 = handbook to steal land from natives and set up a ruling class of so called land&slave owners. ...Washington was a SURVEYOR not a philosopher king wannabe like Jefferson while Adams was a pure lawyer and hobby farmer
I'm not sure the Founding Fathers thought you had "god given rights" for anything. Most of them were Deists at best and had no mentioning of "gods" in our documents and writings. This is by design so church and state can always be separated. Fuck Pence, DeVos, and that bunch. Imaginary beings had nothing to do with our beginning.
@DenoPenno evangelical Christians would deny and go nuts if they could see the truth of the founding fathers, many of the religious ones were Unitarian, which even though considered Christian then, it was widely more accepting and way different from today's portrayals.
Watch an old George Carlin in which he says we have no rights, only privlagies, just ask 600000 Japanese Americans.
That is why god (lol) made Lexan.