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Dogs should be banned from stores except for certified, seeing-eye dogs.

I am so tired of insensitive, selfish dog owners. People are not training their dogs to behave.

On Thursday, a woman brought a small dog into Macy's while I was returning a shirt. I was behind her in line. She let her dog poop in front of the main check stand where customers stand! Disgusting. Asking for a paper towel, she picked up the main wet turds, smearing the rest into the carpet.

Appalled, I told the clerk what happened. "I'm going to call the manager," she said.

"I haven't had him trained as a support dog yet," I overheard the woman say in the shoe area. Her dog lunged at me as I walked by.

Except for certified seeing-eye dogs for the blind, I believe all dogs should be banned from stores and grocery stores. Dogs should be left at home, not in public places where they could bother people and do harm.

This whole "emotional support dog” nonsense is just another example how weak they have become. They can’t leave the house without their “support animal.”

LiterateHiker 9 July 28
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34 comments

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8

I agree that untrained dogs don’t belong in stores—the dog owner you mentioned was a disaster.
But....I traveled around the US for 3 months with my dog. Heat was a huge concern because dogs can die in cars when it’s over 70 degrees outside. It’s scary to have to run into a gas station bathroom or grocery store for 5 minutes while hoping no one takes it upon themselves to smash your car windows and “rescue” your beloved pet. I would have appreciated more dog-friendly places.

UUNJ Level 8 July 28, 2019
7

Okay literate hiker. I look forward to your posts. I think your great. I hate every man who has done wrong by you.

But, there are two sides to every story. To me, IMO, the problem isn't pets being allowed in stores. The problem is a lack of regulations ,and assignment of liabilities, monitoring those bringing non humans into human establishments.

I like it when people bring their pets into a store. I also love watching the reactions of people when things go horribly wrong. For example, when a wet dog turd hits the floor.

7

I will always be on the side of dogs.. humans, not so much..

7

Dog feces are loaded with bacteria (as are ours). Disgusting.

I agree, except for properly trained service animals all others should be left at home. Bringing animals into anyplace with food is especially vile.

MizJ Level 8 July 28, 2019
6

I love my dogs and like most other dogs. My dogs have never been fully trained as guard, attack, emotional support or assistance dogs, but they do adopt those roles.
If you come onto my property - my dog knows and ensures I know
If I do not like you - my dog knows and stands ready
If you attack me - my dog will help me defend
If I feel depressed - my dog helps me carry on
If I cry, or scream, in my sleep - my dog licks away my tears and gently wakes me
If I need solitude - my dog remains beside

I could not live without my dogs - I would not be alive had my dogs not been around

My dogs are not formally trained, yet do follow my instructions and a word is enough. They do not pee or poop indoors, unless ill, when they stay home with doors open and always go outside to poop I take my current dog Gaia to many shops, restaurants, bank, bars etc ... she is socialised with people and behaves as I do, courteous, friendly and calm .. usually .. we have on occasion prevented violence - a simple low growl does catch attention and makes most stop and think before acting.

I wish all children were as well behaved.

And there is the problem - too many owners (of dogs and children) do not take responsibility for teaching what is and is not expected and acceptable in social circles, the basics of social living.......where do we go from here?

My niece has a dog she has used for emotional support. This dog has traveled by plane with zero issues. She is truly properly trained. And I don't think she would have survived without her at the point at which she entered her life?
She still goes with her to many of the places you mention. No incidents ever.
I'm so damn in love with that dog. And her second dog. Who isn't quite as well mannered - but pretty darn good. (I'm a dog person so I have zero issues with the second one). She's just got a ton of energy. lol She doesn't go to the bank and the restaurants with her.
I'm amazed by what dogs can do for humans.

I'm glad you have yours.

6

From my understanding of the current laws, you can not ask to see the certification of the "support animal" nor can you ask what the disability is that requires you to use one. That law needs to changed so the animals that have been properly trained can do their job.

There is also a difference between emotional support animals and service animals. I believe properly trained service animals should be allowed, while emotional support animals shouldn't. Laws need to be changed to show the difference.

Just to show how out of control this has gotten, my daughter used to have a friend who went no where without her emotional support Transformers (yes, I said transformers. She had emotional support toys).

If emotional support toys worked for her? Why not allow her to have them? I imagine that's why they were labeled so she could have them when she needed them - in any circumstance.

@RavenCT It wouldn't have been a problem except she insisted on bringing them and then refusing to let my grandson get close to them. It's very difficult to explain to a 5yr old autistic child why he couldn't touch them (at the time his obsession was Transformer toys), while she sat there and smiled.

@kiramea
Was she an adult? (I guess I'm presuming that) If so that's just odd. (Not the dolls but sitting there smiling without explanation).

I mean even people with emotional support animals would take into account the needs of an autistic child.

Unless she was severely impaired herself?

Just as a considerate dog owner doesn't foist their dog on someone who is terrified of dogs.

Consideration. It's possible even with impairment. So I guess the question is "Just how impaired was this woman?".

Just as I will ask a service person before they enter the house - "Are you afraid of cats? I have three". I don't want to have to pull anyone off the ceiling. Phobias exist and accommodations exist.

Also autism often trumps other disorders (temporarily at least).
That had to be a miserable visit.

I can't say the doll idea is a bad one if it worked (Though I would think it would apply more to a child?) - but that she in some way abused the use of that tool? That's not appropriate.

And that is not the purpose of therapeutic tools. Her therapist would have been displeased. I know that much.

@RavenCT The woman was nuts. At one time she was a very good friend of my daughter, but that changed when she told my grandson she was going to cut off his nuts if he didn't stop touching them (she said that in front of me which I obviously lost it). And yes, she was an adult in her mid-late twenties.

I understand psychiatric issues as I have issues myself. The issue I had with this woman was that she was told that she would have to share the toys or at least bring some so my grandson could play. When she got to the house she would always say she "forgot" them.

She was also a veteran, and transgender but I personally believe that had nothing to do with the therapy toys. What was more disturbing was that from what I was told she refused to get therapy. I followed her on facebook for a while but stopped because she always blamed everyone else for her problems. I can't handle people who refuse to take responsibility for their own happiness.

@kiramea I'm in agreement there. You don't get to make excuses and not seek treatment if you need therapy dolls/pets. Those are indicators that continued help is needed.

I can't imagine any therapist saying "Get a dog instead of me". Nope - not gonna happen. Certainly not going to happen with a doll!

Sounds like you did precisely what needed doing.

Threatening children isn't allowed. Period.

5

I agree with you in the vast number of inconsiderate dog owners, but might I point out that guide dogs are NOT the only service dogs that should be allowed everywhere with their owners?!? There are service dogs for a number of ailments and situations: hearing dogs, seizure and diabetic alert dogs, (yes) emotional support dogs, and so on.

  • Actual "Service Dogs" are vastly different from "therapy dogs"...

I (as a long-time dog breeder) have produced dogs who have gone into service in myriad manners (including Guide Dogs, Canine Companions for Independence, Therapy Dogs, etc), and would like to say that many service dogs help their humans in ways most people do not understand, but they are every bit as important as a guide dog! The "emotional support dog” can be abused, no question, but there ARE dogs who by virtue of being with their human can offer silent support for situations that could completely overwhelm or emotionally cripple their person. Please be aware that many "handicaps" are not visible, but that does not mean they are any less "crippling" than something obvious!

As an aside, I remember (several years ago) using the power button to open a door, and a woman caustically told me that those buttons were "only for handicapped people". My first reaction was the desire to tell her that it was none of her business, unless she was the "power button police", but I managed to not respond to her rudeness, and instead THANKED her for pointing out that my handicaps were not OBVIOUS!! Probably the best possible response, and I hope that the woman never again assumed to be able to judge someone's handicap!

Rustee Level 7 July 29, 2019
4

My dog would die of shame if he ever pooped indoors. I only take him stores like Home Depot that keep dog treats at the cash register.

4

I love dogs. I don't understand people's obsession with bringing dogs everywhere they go! And for God's sake train your dogs!

4

Nope you are wrong. There are people with dogs that need them to alert someone if they are having a stroke or heart attack or having a seizure. If anyone thinks having a health condition makes one weak, they are a privileged healthy cnt and seriously need to check their privilege.

If you have never experienced something traumatic in your life or have not been negatively impacted by something traumatic, it is not your place to speak of weaknesses. Again, speaking from a place of ignorance and of privilege.

As for doggies in general, I would say allow doggies in if you carry them in a carrier or put a muzzle on them and ensure they go potty outside before entering the store. Leaving dogs in hot cars can kill them and tying badly behaved dogs outside stores will have its own set of problems. Were that dog to be tied outside, it would still lunge at you.

4

Wow do I disagree. There are people who require support or therapy animals.

Thank goodness there are stores who allow service dogs to be trained on the premises - poop and all.

This was one case of a person sliding one by - so you want all support animals banned? Hard nope to that.

Did you know there are dogs trained for seizure patients? Who will alert when they are going to have an episode? And help cushion the head while they seize?

They even go for help if the person remains down.

Or support animals for children with special needs?

It helps many folks with PTSD interact because they trust the dog to alert correctly when they can't.

Was that woman wrong? Yes. Are all helpful service animals wrong? Heck no!

I would love to be on a flight with someone with a pet rat as a therapy animal. We'd have a lot to chat about.

And I spoken to folks training dogs in WalMart more than once (when they had the dog on a sit/stay command).

Dogs have been helping humankind for a long time. A turd isn't going to end that relationship.

I love seeing a tiny therapy dog when I go to my Pain clinic. That one rides is a purse! It's awesome! 💜💜💜

Dogs are also trained to warn of an impending low blood sugar attack of a diabetic which could save a life.

@starwatcher-al how could I forget? They do so much!

I have a cat who learned to wake me that f my sugar went too low. I lived alone at that time and my sugar took time to stabilize.

Those service animals are invaluable too!

4

I think support animals are a great idea. I'm not so sure issuing prescriptions and getting special treatment for them is a great idea. If you want a pet for support, get one. If you can't for some reason, like your landlord doesn't allow them, find another way to get the support you need.

As for animals in stores, I agree that they shouldn't be there, particularly if they aren't even house broken. The problem with that woman's dog wasn't that it wasn't trained as a support animal, it apparently wasn't trained at all. Either that or the lady had neglected to give it a bathroom break for so long that it couldn't help itself. Sounds like the dog might be the one who needs support.

4

I would never bring a dog into a store like Macy's! I work at a big box home center with a liberal dog policy. I love it actually. We have dog regulars. We also have a rare, but occasional accident. No problem. We are prepared. Also concrete floors makes clean up easy. As for other retailers... No!

4

For clarity.
Also, a quick and easy way to tell if it’s a real service animal is asking to pet it. If the owner says no then it’s real. Especially for business that don’t want to deal with lawsuits.

Thank you for sharing this, it is spot-on!

@Paracosm - DURING actual training, the handler rarely allows petting. These dogs are in TRAINING, and should not be allowed to be distracted by petting and socializing while being trained. While not being trained is a different scenario, but when the dog has its training jacket on, and is being trained, OR when they are working (on duty!), they should never be petted!

@Rustee I was allowed to pet a working dog once. It had worked in explosives in it's youth. It was in semi-retirement. (On call only perhaps?). lol So wearing it's gear to the store as a support animal to keep in training. It was in a sit stay and I was allowed to pet it as it wasn't working. (Or if it was it was as a therapy animal to it's owner who might have had some PTSD). Therapy dogs sometimes can be petted as they provide emotional support and can help people make social contacts. It varies.
I always ask. You can't go wrong with asking an owner ever.

4

i disagree. it is irresponsible dog-owners who should be banned. there are well-behaved dogs who would never poop or piddle in a store because they've been trained not to and/or their owners made sure they had done so out of doors before entering the shop. there are others whose owners would immediately clean up if an accident occurred. i wouldn't ban the dogs, but i'd post clear signs about what is required and ban humans who do not comply.

g

@genessa

Dogs are obnoxious, they stick their nose in your crotch, they bark, and are occasionally dangerous.

I have been attacked by eight unleashed dogs while hiking and snowshoeing in the last 10 years. None of the owners apologized.

"Call your dog!" I yelled. "Grab his collar! Dogs are required to be on a leash!"

'He's friendly," they lamely replied, and did not control their dog. Now I feel terrified of strange dogs.

It took six months for my knee to heal after one dog attack.

If I carried pepper spray, I'd be tempted to spray the owners.

@LiterateHiker i am sorry about your experience. mine is different and i do not find dogs obnoxious, not have i ever been bitten by one, my own or those of others. none of mine has ever bitten anyone, either.i blame the humans. dogs are not naturally obnoxious but obnoxious people raise dogs badly, just as some do children. i understand that you find dogs obnoxious and that you have had bad experiences with them. nothing i say will change that and probably therefore nothing i say will change your feelings about dogs. however, realistically, this is not most people's experience, nor most dogs' characters or behavior. you cited only the poop problem in your post. i suggested a solution to that. naturally, people with vicious dogs should not be allowed to bring said dogs into shops (or into public at all, for that matter). people who raise vicious dogs should not be allowed to raise dogs at all. exception: people who adopt a dog raised to be vicious and try to change that dog with love and patience. kudos to them -- but they still have to be responsible about exposing the public to such dogs. the people who would not leash their dog and claimed he was friendly should be prosecuted for their irresponsibility and your injury. however, they are the exception, just as all lawbreakers are.

g

@genessa

I grew up with two, gentle, loving, extremely well-behaved Labrador Retrievers. Lady won the Michigan State Obedience Championship twice. My mother took both dogs to obedience training.

So, I loved dogs until being repeatedly attacked. Now I'm terrified of strange dogs.

One of the women Karen hikes with (I refuse) has an out-of-control large dog that bit her own four-year-old granddaughter TWICE.

Yet this woman refuses to put down her dog. "He's my emotional support animal," she says. I don't understand it.

@LiterateHiker her keeping the dog is her business. her exposing the public to that dog is not her business; it's the public's business.

i totally understand your fear. i think from what you just said that you also understand that your fear cannot be the criterion for how shop owners (for example) run their shops -- but there is logic too to controlling how dogs behave in public, and which dogs get to BE in public. i am sorry that your fear interferes with some of your enjoying of hiking (for example) and being in public in general, since from time to time there will be dogs. i am truly sorry. look, i have a phobia myself -- ptds from awakening during an eye operation when i was three. i am terrified of needles and of anyone's touching my eye, and of anesthesia while we're at it. this makes my medical care precarious. lots of people are scared of needles; they do what they need to do anyway. no one likes surgery; they have it when they need it. i am actually not getting care i desperately need due to my ptsd-induced phobias. i'm working on it, not with much success so far but still. so i getcha. i really do. all i can do is wish you the best. i don't know the solution, if there even is one.

g

@K9Kohle789 true enough, and i was assuming hiker knew that since she had known and loved dogs at one time, but it doesn't hurt to remind, of course. this is only true of normal dogs though. some owners really do raise their dogs to be vicious, regardless of fear or lack thereof. not many -- but some.

g

@K9Kohle789 those people were indeed insane.

g

3

I love dogs but I don't assume everyone does...kind of like a child...yours is great but everyone else's, not so much.

I take my dog where dogs are welcome...in the park on a leash, dog park without a leash but fenced, walking in my neighborhood, outdoor cafes specifically known for welcoming dogs, PetSmart...

People like that make responsible dog owners look bad...support dogs for those that need them are trained BEFORE they are given over, so she was a faker...

3

Was interesting to see dogs allowed in many, many stores and restaurants in Germany, when I visited back in the 90's, before the concept of support or service dogs was popular. They were just allowed as a matter of custom. Different country, different perspective.

bet very few would pee and poop indoors there

@ShadowAmicus True dat.

3

When My older brother was still able to live at home with his wife, he had a support dog. He had Altzheimer's for the last several years. He died this May 14th at age 79. I will not comment as to if his "emotional support dog" was a frivolous indulgence or not.

3

@Happy_Killbot

Gross. Geese constantly shit. You should see the Riverfront Trail slippery with goose shit. I refuse to run there.

It got so bad, the city shipped a shitload (a technical term) of Canadian Geese north to Okanogan County.

@LiterateHiker is a shitlod more or less thsn a fuckton?

My problem with the goose is it isn't leashed. But it seems really responsive to it's human and under it's human's control. Better than some dogs I've met.

I actually know of someone who lives near my sister in MA who walks their pet Goose with a special vest and lead. In a shopping center parking lot. Much like you would a dog. I see no reason they can't. Bird fly where they want too. lol I'd rather see the poop land on the ground from a few inches than come from above!

3

People want to bring "support animals" everywhere and even on a plane. It's ridiculous! Can I bring my support ostrich?

Most airlines have restrictions and animals must be certified. Or, for emotional support they may need a doctor's note. Airlines DO restrict types of animals allowed onboard.

3

I agree with you that people should not take dogs everywhere, however I do feel different about support dogs. In that I have to say that support dogs are trained they would never disgrace themselves like that dog did. I don't know but perhaps they have different training for support dogs in the US than we have here in Australia. Actually when we talk about dogs not being allowed everywhere I feel like that about kids sometimes. I think there should be a kid free day that they are not allowed into shopping centers, libraries and other public places.

2

There has been a lot of abuse of the service animal title.
It's disgusting how easy the vests are to acquire online.
It hurts those who HAVE LEGITIMATE SERVICE ANIMALS.

Qualia Level 8 July 30, 2019

@Qualia

Exactly.

2

I agree with the caveat that any trained licensed assistant dog should be allowed access. The problem with emotional support animals is they are not trained or vetted rather its just signed off by a doctor etc. The airlines are struggling with the difference and the ease of people getting emotional support animals.

Quarm Level 6 July 29, 2019
2

I have no problems with people bringing their pets in to stores. However, people need to be be prepared to take 100% accountability for their pets behavior if they choose to take such action. This includes paying for any damage their pet does to the property. Stores should also not be held accountable if a pet whose human has no control over them is killed or injured.

I would personally never bring a pet in to a store. It’s too much of a distraction. I’m there to get my shopping done. Not to make sure that my dog isn’t running around knocking over displays and tearing in to packages of beef jerky.

2

Agreed and agreed and agreed and agreed.

Dogs should be banned.......(period/ full stop)

Yes I'm not a "dog person".

Cat person?

@Jolanta Guilty!

@David1955 Me too.

Okay, I do make an exception for dogs for the blind. They are nice animals doing a very good thing.

@David1955 And service dogs for people with seizures and with diabetes (who also get seizures) do they get exceptions too?

@demifeministgal Yes, well, where a medically allocated dog is prescribed to a person, well, ok, but neurotic people walking around with their support poodle on planes, no.

@David1955 So you are against those with PTSD or major anxiety/depression having support dogs in public places? 😕

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