I had one of those burgers and it was good. When I gave up beef and pork years ago, a hamburger was one thing I really missed. I had given up steak a few years earlier, as it was like trying to digest a bowling ball.

@bigpawbullets

Same here. I eat fish, poultry and lean pork.

I choose meats without pesticides, growth hormones, sodium injections and other unhealthy chemicals.

Same here. More fruits and vegetables, and fish and lean meat, but less of it. Moderation is key.

Google is your friend. Lol
[cnbc.com]

Mackey has apparently eaten plant based for twenty years. Whole Foods Beyond Meat burger brand is taking off but the article says Mackey isn't entirely convinced.

@BeerAndWine seems to support the commercial theory. Reading the other comments that seems to be the general consensus about the actual interview, although everyone seems to agree that processed = bad.

@JackPedigo

In the interview John Mackey said, "plant-based meat is better for the environment."

@LiterateHiker what, you expected him to read and then post his opinion?

I remember that Smithsonian story. If remember right they analyzed remains from Roman graves and identified the skeletons as from gladiators by the (often healed) wounds they carried. And they looked at the chemical makeup of the bones to discover what they ate.

Didn't the article speculate that these were the professional athletes of their time and they were likely motivated and able to get the most healthy foods their culture had? They apparently chose their vegetarian lifestyle quite intentionally.

BTW... I totally agree with you about a plant based diet. My wife and I have no questions health-wise, morally, economically, all around. It's been an easy choice for us for over 20 years so far.

I've seen studies of gladiators diets where the focus was on mass and layers of fat for protection - so they could be cut and bleed for a good show without risking death as much. Training and supporting gladiators was expensive and fights to the death between them were rarer than historical fiction would have us believe.

So basically they were eating that way to be fatter, not sure that's the model of a meat free diet you want.

@LiterateHiker, 1of5 Duh, it would help if I could read. I guess it was just a little more emphasis on my part.

@1of5 Not according to the article. A gladiator training camp in Austria was studied. See comment from RichCC

@LiterateHiker I just discovered the 'other side of the coin'. I will post it.

@JackPedigo yes, I saw it, and I can redig up my sources too. That that was the diet isn't in question, the purpose of the diet is. Gladiators were top athletes, but they were also blood sport entertainers who's exisistance was to put on a good show. Anyone who watches fights will tell you that a good show is one where the fighters trade blows with each other. While thier diet sustained them and allowed them to be the best gladiators they could be, part of that is being able to take abuse. Scant armor was used - can't hide what people want to see, blood - the only protection they actually had was extra mass/padding a layer of fat would provide, and the diet enabled them to add that.

The diet wasn't designed to get them to a ripe old age or to be a statuesque symbol of fitness, it was to put on the best show possible. That includes being cut, stabbed, and hit, which you need protection from.

That's not to say they were fat slobs or anything, they were athletes with a very high activity level. They put on fat and muscle while eating this way and training, quite literally, hard enough to save thier lives.

@1of5 Their existence was to stay alive pure and simple. No one went into the arena thinking I need to die to put on a good show. It was a battle of the fittest and everything (especially diet) was considered. We have top athletes, weight lifters and fighters who are vegan. They all say it is their diet that has given them the edge. Here's a little something I once read. [cbc.ca]

Yes; good protein. I've eaten crickets prepared by a nonprofit concerned with world hunger. Just need to get past the gag factor.

I agree but would add since when do or should we follow our nature? We are not meant to fly, or do a myriad of other things but we do. The 2 driving forces of life are procreation and survival yet to do those things means that mother nature will seek a balance. 7.6+Billion of us and the destruction of our environment shows what can happen when a species simply follows its nature.

I agree in general but would point out that a single sacrificed cow can feed many while a single sacrificed chicken can feed just a few, so overall, it could be more humane to take less lives.

@itsmedammit From what I have been learning, raising cattle for beef is much more harmful to the environment than other sources of animal protein. [cbsnews.com]

@JackPedigo If it were not in our nature to build machines that enable us to fly, we would not have done so. Everything we do is following some aspect of our nature. Sometimes the consequences are positive and other times downright harmful. I do agree, however, that nature will seek a balance (not in any cognitive way); and that might mean that we will see a drastic reduction in human population through wars, drought, famine, unleashed diseases--who knows? Or, we might have a collective awakening and see that our survival depends on more cooperation and much less abuse of the planet.

Everything has 2 sides. The above statement is, of course, true. One of the reasons why humans are going extinct. The pollution and habitat destruction are why most large species are going extinct with humans. Hopefully, it will happen before humans are smart enough to be able to infect some other planet.
But for all the misery there is only one cause, [people breed like rats and now infected beyond redemption every niche of our planet.

too bad climate change is killing all the insects, and it's a huge problem.
[theconversation.com]

I don't think I could eat insects - don't ask why as I don't have a clue except it scares me.

What we eat and don't eat are learned behaviors passed down through generations. I like your ideas but not sure how we would approach people conditioned to believe that insects can't be food. I would happily eat imitation meat patties made from insects personally but I would be curious to poll the public and see how they respond after being better informed

@Happy_Killbot

Well, I guess will just have to eat the oil stock holders and executives. When they are gone we can eat their attorneys.

When they are gone, there are others to feast on. There is the timber industry, the pharmacy industry, the prison industry, some politicians, the Duponts, the war industrialis as well as many others.

Come to think of it, there isn't a food shortage.

@Heathenman What about all the customers of oil, timber, pharmacy, prisons (inmates/guards) anyone who ever voted, duponts, and everyone who lived in a stable society not under constant threat of war?

Isn't everyone who drives a car the reason the oil tycoons got rich?

@Happy_Killbot

To a degree. But, a small one.

The oil industry hasn't stuck around because they are not complete shit bags. They still exist because they have actively thwarted energy technology You have to be a complete idiot if you don't think what you pay for fuel isn't artificially high because the oligopies are fucking around with pricing.

@Heathenman Actually, I don't think it's artificially high. In fact I think it's artificially low.

Like, way, way, way, low.

If you go to other countries the price is significantly higher than in the US.

[globalpetrolprices.com]

@Happy_Killbot

I have been to other countries, your right the fuel prices were much higher in Germany and France. Planning on going to the UK. Think you will be right on the money there as well.

I consider myself a Republican. I believe in defense and strong economy first. I strongly believe in the U.S. Constitution. The government exists for the people. It doesn't mention sticking up for the petroleum industry.

I gave up on the Republican Party years ago. It's a joke. Even Trump, in the primaries, said it was controlled by big oil. He was right. They are the bitches and marrionetts of a few industries.

When I was a child I read Sun Tzu The Art of War. I strongly believe the best way to destroy your enemy is economically and with a degree of subtle which makes a mouse come off as a parade.

The U.S. electric grid is a joke. If I was king for a day, I would kick the day off by bankrupting Russia and Iran. This would begin by putting in a grid which makes oil worthless.

You seem really pro oil.

Tell me Happy Kill Bot, When did protecting the environment stop being part of protecting the country and it's people? Is there an answer which doesn't include sucking the dick of the oil industry?

@Heathenman Slow down with the personal attacks there buddy.

Politically, I don't fit into either the "left" or the "right" neatly, I am however a FANATIC PROGRESSIVE: (link at bottom of this post)
[agnostic.com]

The only things I am "pro" is truth even if its unpleasant, for example your misconception about oil prices,
[agnostic.com]

and science, no matter what, even if its disturbing or dehumanizing
[agnostic.com]

I hate misinformation in every form, even if its for "The greater good" and I will correct people if they say something wrong, and I expect the same in return.
[agnostic.com]

My stance on the environment? Let's just say I wrote a small book about it.
[agnostic.com]

I don't expect you will read all of that, I like long posts and there is a lot of reading there.

As for sucking off oil companies? You got it all backwards. I want to STARVE them. You have read Sun Tzo's masterpiece, I am sure you are aware of this strategy.

Its really simple:

people spend money and get oil.
The oil companies sell oil and get money.
Oil company spends some money to get more oil.
the people burn the oil for heating, transportation, power, and industry.
rinse, wash, repeat until the oil companies are rich, people are literally driving (as in a car) themselves into slavery, and the atmosphere is toxic.

We don't have any control over what the companies do. We do have control over what we buy and therefore the revenue of the oil tycoons.

don't like buying gas? get an electric car, or better yet don't drive.
Tired of paying to much for electricity? turn of your lights and unplug everything you aren't using.
Want to keep plastic out of the oceans? Recycle or don't buy disposable plastic goods in the first place.
Want to lower your carbon footprint? Never buy or pour concrete and eat less meat.
Want an improved energy grid? based on your location there is a 71% chance you get your power from a not for profit energy co-op and you can become a shareholder if you aren't already. This is the first step in achieving that goal.

Its easy to point fingers. Its hard to accept blame. No person on this planet is without blame. At the end of the day, the decision to release CO2 to the environment comes from individual choices, and companies just enable that decision, and they are only doing it for profit. change the profit motive, change the company.

The hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance of people in this country is disgusting. If you want change, BE THE CHANGE!

@Happy_Killbot

Happy Killbot y o u insulted the majority of people on this website when yo. u opened this discussion by insulting anyone who believes in global warming.

If I was going to say something like, Only a completely brainwashed, obstinate du m, b as. s would state energy pricing isn't crooked. That may be considered rude and insulting, but it wouldn't be a personal attack.

If I were to say

" EVERYONE BLOCK KILLBOT. He is insulting everyone who believes global warming is real. He is making passive aggressive insults and arguments. He is a troll who is pushing a pro oil agenda. If enough people report or block him, he will get kicked off this site. ".

That would be a personal attack.

But, of course I wouldn't do that to you smarty.

Hey, Why would you be upset about it anyway? Your a violent machine with a happy bloody face. Your name is Happy Kill_Bott. Gee, I completely misjudged you. For a moment I thought you would be a dude with a beer belly, polishing his guns to reenforce his fleeting masculinity.

So, again Happy Killbot. When did sticking up for the environment stop being considered part of defending the country? When did the oil industry fully brainwash the Republican and oil robots?

@Heathenman I blocked Killbot a long time ago. I gain nothing listening to morons.

Stopping malnutrition and famines may not be a bad idea. It will lead to accelerated planet destruction, faster human population explosion and faster human species extinction. I am sure that we will see it in our lifetime. Our children will hate us, soon and for a valid reason. The suffering we prepared them people cannot vision, yet.

@Arizonajerry

I used to think that as well.

Now I don't. The logic stems from, if we don't die, we will overpopulate.

I no longer agree with that fear.

Even if you buy organic you can't get away from the use of pesticides. For certain crops, pesticides are used more liberally than on GMO crops, because the GMO crops typically don't need pesticides at all, because the genetic modifications we gave them either allow them to be poisonous to insects or immunity to more potent chemicals that have high effectiveness but decay quickly

[blogs.scientificamerican.com]

@Happy_Killbot I do agree that organic is a come on with the exception of some very small local farmers who really do follow the code. I also know of some organic farms that are rather close to other fields that do use heavy pesticides. GMO's are scary - think about the fact that corn, soy beans, alfalfa are at the top of GMO crops. These are all the things used in sileage for the cows who produce our milk. I am very sceptical about organic because everyone is out for the buck and organic farming is not a big producer of cold hard cash.

@AmelieMatisse I don't think there is anything scary about GMO crops, just people and companies such as Whole foods who make them scary to keep people buying their overpriced non sense. We have been "Genetically modifying" foods for thousands of years through selective breeding and it hasn't caused any problems. Now we can take a more direct approach and add the genes we want to get the desired traits much faster.

The wild "organic" varieties of plants and fruits we commonly eat are not very healthy or particularly edible. We breed them to be what they are today. The same is true with animals.

GMO's are important because the world's populations are growing and we need to feed everybody. Organic crops produce far less food and aren't any better for the environment or your health, despite what some may claim.

@Happy_Killbot Well I feel about GMO and its relative GE the same as I would feel about cloning humans so I guess we can agree to disagree.

Some meat alternatives are being made entirely with plant products. Apparently the key to the Impossible Burger's taste and texture is a plant-based heme. I don't know what else is in there but there is nothing from animal stem cells.

@Fred_Snerd That’s about the size of it! Good on you!

There are so many brands and types of plant-based meats these days that it's impossible to try them all. There has also been much improvement in the texture and flavour in the last few years that many meat eaters can't tell the difference from real meat. That said, I don't normally eat the processed stuff either. I especially don't want to eat any of the plant-based processed food that look or taste or have texture so much like meat you can't tell the difference. It's not for me but hey, if others want to eat it and eat less meat, go for it.

When people talk about foods being processed, they are typically referring to chemical processing, usually the addition of preservatives. Normally heavily processed foods are safe for consumption, however lots of certain preservatives, especially salt and sodium nitrate, can lead to increased lifetime risk of certain heart and blood conditions such as increased risk of heart disease, high blood pressure, and obesity.

[lhsfna.org]

I wish people were advanced enough when my parents were making me to build me like a car from parts. It is coming, I applaud, unfortunately not soon enough for me. I surely could do without some hereditary problems. If my parent knew, I would surely sue them for making me. If I did not exist I would certainly not miss myself.
I hope that all the hereditary "special needs" people will be able to sue soon, just as suing parents who mutilate boys penises or do other atrocities because the believed some medieval idiot that did not even exist.
GMO? Not for me. If it kills a caterpillar I am not so much different not to kill me, also at a much slower rate because of weight difference. We need to eat what occurs locally. It is idiocy to grow cotton in a desert, make banana, oil palm or pineapple plantations or grow strawberries in the humid climate like Florida. If we would not poison the strawberries they would never make it to Ohio. And of course, they are just suitable for a hazardous waste dump. We can never wash our fungicide which is made to stick to fruit and not be washed by rain.

Dangerously healthy. You're going to live to be a million. Will your retirement last??

@bigpawbullets With luck. Two thirds of it is cost of living linked. It's the people who have to live with my presence that I pity.

@BeerAndWine not him,that the more processed the food the better it is

@BeerAndWine it is the plant based foods they talk about are highly processed and chemical flavors