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Are you in favor of UBI ? Why/not ?

Universal basic income seems to improve employment and well-being

[newscientist.com]

FearlessFly 9 May 8
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16 comments

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5

NO!!

fedup Level 6 May 8, 2020
6

Absolutely not .Takes away incentive

. . . credible evidence for that claim ?

@FearlessFly since when does members comments and OPINIONS need evidence you nitwit

@godlessguy . . . fallacy :

[en.wikipedia.org]

2

I am philosophically opposed to any kind of hand out. However, I could be OK with a Universally Guaranteed Minimum level of employment.

I've just seen too many cases, acquaintances, and relatives, who make bad choices in life and every hand out just encourages more bad choices. However, when they have to work for what they get, they tend to be a little less frivolous, plus I believe just showing up for work demands a minimum level of self care, which is also a good thing.

. . . anecdotes are not data. 😛

@FearlessFly Well, in fact they are, but an extremely limited set. Why? What data do you have on the matter?

@Normanbites It is the burden of the one (you) making the claim(s) to provide credible source(s).

@FearlessFly Well, let's see ... I have an extremely limited set of data, but data none the less. You got nuttin. . ... Go Fish!!

0

Before addressing UBI, a concept my avatar strongly advocated, perhaps we should address two basic rights (which many view as privileges) that have been underscored in the aftermath of COVID-19: universal health care and universal housing.

[pnhp.org]

1

A big benefit of a UBI, and a big reason the elites will fight it, is that it gives people "fuck you" money if it provides a basic level of subsistence. If your employer screws you, you're less likely to be so hand to mouth that you can't quit on the spot and take a little time to find another job. Right now people are dependent on their employer, often in a hand-to-mouth way, and employers know it and take advantage of it.

The other missing piece is to decouple health care from employment. Many, many people stay with jobs they hate because they need the health insurance.

The "elites" are vastly outnumbered.
Folks have been trying to change the US healthcare systems for a hundred years, 😮

[pnhp.org]

0

How much would you say UBI should be per month?

If you are asking me, I would leave that to someone more qualified. 😮 😛

1
I think it could work in a positive way in our constitutional republic without driving us into a Marxist style society. A UBI in an amount that assures only nutrition, shelter and basic clothing ought to be doable.  Unfortunately, a bit late...  We are submerged in a drug and other addictives existence.  Anything a UBI might otherwise soften would certainly be abused and pipelined to purveyors of addictive substitutes for satisfaction of secondary needs and drives.  WE are terminal.
3

UBI is a needed thing to help with the general welfare of the people. Just enough of it to get you by and also provide you with the necessary healthcare. One reason it is proposed is that we have too many products and apps and those that make them want to continue making a profit. They are willing to cave for a bit less and help citizens out in order to keep going with business as usual. Where will the money come from? Those who view us as the product will be making this happen. Beyond all that you can start a business and make all the capital that you like. Other countries have this sort of system now and it helps to take care of many people.

1

I am, but in this country (US), we will figure out how to ruin it. Imagine a democratic President gets a UBI bill passed. When the Republicans get back in power (in whatever form the bourgeoisie takes), they will simply modify it so that it doesn't provide enough real help to the masses. They could make sure it isn't matched to inflation, for example, and then let inflation run wild, effectively making a UBI worthless. If not this, then something, but the ruling class will ensure that they game this in their favor as everything else.
No I am not interested in Andrew Yang (preemptive strike).

Sadly, we have to let nature take its course (death) to get rid of the patriarchy. I cannot stomach another old white man in the oval. My pipe dream? VP Stacy Abrahms and after 2 years Biden hands it off confident we are in good hands. Speaker of the House Katie Porter,. DOJ Kamala Harris, head of state, Mayor Pete. ....

3

Affirmative. A correctly configured UBI will eliminate the need for social welfare programs, employment insurance, minimum wages, etc., and will be a net zero cost to society. It will allow youth to accept low paying jobs, thereby gaining valuable experience and qualifications. It will eliminate the financial incentive to form fatherless families. It will lessen the power of the "Nanny State" and restore that power to individuals.

0

If and only if one receives it after being certified as receiving reversible birth control. That should be the caveat requirement for getting most government services and voting privileges.

In the US, voting is NOT a privilege :

[en.wikipedia.org]

@creative51 . . . fallacy :

[en.wikipedia.org]

@creative51 . . . regardless, it is still fallacious. 😛

@FearlessFly (Thanks)

Yeah, identifying me as a white privileged elitist demonstrates the troll's bias (Fallacy of abusive ad hominem). We are all racist, and speciesist.

It is Humanity's speciesist bias toward itself, at the expense of the rest of the natural world, that my post addresses.

I am in favor of negative population growth; I would favor measures that minimize racial impact and address the existing racial economic disparity.

Qualification to vote in the US has and continues to have qualifications: age limits, felony conviction in seven states, etc., These qualifications have grown from a class of land-owning males. Recent elections argue strongly that allowing everyone to vote enfranchises voter manipulation, votor control, and thus power back in the hands of a wealthy few. The continued support of a corrupt disloyal opposition demonstrates that democracy is flawed without reasoned, fair revision and oversight. Or, we can sell it all to Putin for the price of some strong rope.

@racocn8 "that allowing everyone to vote enfranchises voter manipulation" -- credible source(s) for that claim ?

9

Such schemes are not just unrealistic and ineffective, they are also suspect on Democratic grounds.But UBI is a flawed idea, not least because it would be prohibitively expensive unless accompanied by deep cuts to the rest of the safety net. In the US (population 327 million), a UBI of just $1000 per month would cost around $4 trillion per year, which is close to the entire federal budget in 2018.Without major cost savings, federal tax revenues would have to be doubled which would impose massive distortionary costs on the economy. And, no ,a permanent UBI could not be financed with government debt or newly printed currency. Sacrificing all of the social programs for the sake of a UBI is a terrible idea. Finally, much of the enthusiasm for UBI is based on a miss reading of employment trends in advanced economies.

. . . there are 'arguments' on both sides.

[intelligencesquaredus.org]

[niskanencenter.org]

@richiegtt One of the few comments that makes sense .Of course dimwits will always agree on handouts without knowing or caring about the Consequences involving a stupid idea.That’s all this country needs now is more debt .What a joke

@granny @richiegtt It is hard not to notice that neither of you have given credible source(s) to bolster your claim(s).

@FearlessFly Are you for real ?

@FearlessFly What do you think I just dreamed my comments up?I researched the facts I commented on .So you will probably say the research is incorrect and I will say your information is also flawed .

1

I'm in favor of exploring it. Sure sounds like a good idea if there aren't going to be enough quality jobs for people in the future, because collective well being is important to me. But I favor nothing that isn't first explored scientifically, or with good data.

5

Absolutely. Along with universal healthcare, universal education and any and every thing that makes life better for all homo-sapiens.

0

Yes I am.

1

Yes.

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