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I’m struggling with the statement people make when they say they are Free Thinkers, Critical Thinkers, Atheist, Humanist, Secularist, and Skeptics, and then they say in the next sentence that they are spiritual!
First lets get some Websters definitions.
Free Thinkers: a person who rejects accepted opinions, especially those concerning religious belief.
Critical Thinkers: Being inherently inquisitive and interested in the world and people around you is a hallmark of leaders who are critical thinkers. Instead of taking everything at face value, a curious person will wonder why something is the way it is.
Atheist: a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
Humanist: an advocate or follower of the principles of humanism. "efforts by secular humanists to oppose creationists"
Secularist: a person who advocates separation of the state from religious institutions. "secularists wanted religious reform as the first step to a secular society"
Skeptics: a person inclined to question or doubt accepted opinions.
And then there is “spiritual”
spiritual: relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
"I'm responsible for his spiritual welfare"
Now lets travel back in time to the time when our ancestors lived in the bush and were hunters and gathers. We have evidence of these creatures because of fossils and remains found between four and seven million years ago. These creatures would run when they heard a noise in the tall grass, they would believe it was a lion. If they were wrong they just got some exercise, but if ignored it and it was a lion it could cost them their lives. They learned there was a cause and effect to most things. They learned the seasons and how they helped them to anticipate the weather. Then they noticed when one of their group died they no longer responded and they had to bury the dead. They surmised that something had left the person and so they assigned that something to be a spirit. Every civilization known to man has had a believe in some sort of spirit leaving the body at death. This belief goes back as far as man does because that’s were the belief came from.
Now we talk about the good spirit and the bad spirit!
My son in-law’s mother died from brain cancer and as the cancer progressed she became cruel and mean to her spouse, children, siblings, parents, and everyone else she came in contact with. Before she was sick she was the most caring sweet person anyone had ever known! The brain and the mind are one in the same and people want to believe that the mind somehow lives on after death through this “spiritual” connection!
I would love to see any evidence of “spiritual” ! Its like a magic rabbits foot in your pocket! And it does as much good!

ExMooreMan 4 June 21
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53 comments

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13

I find it remarkable that you so easily find yourself "struggling" and think you can use a dictionary to get it all worked out and pigeonhole everyone. people are just people that are going to do their things and believe what they want to believe. it's really that simple.

12

As an atheist since age 13, hiking is a transcendent, spiritual experience for me.

I feel grounded, centered and blissful high in the mountains.

This has nothing to do with an invisible god.

It is almost as if, for you, "transcendence" and "spiritual" were describing something about your subjective experience rather than anything religious. Seems perfectly compatible with atheism to me.

@MarkWD

I am describing my experience.

I feel lucky to have eyes that see, a strong body to hike steep trails, and a heart that soars with the beauty of the great outdoors.

I've wondered if hiking has some special meaning for you, other than just hiking. I guess bicycling is like that for me - it feels like flying.

@BitFlipper

Hiking has been my passion since age 21 when I moved from Michigan to Washington State. Fell in love with the mountains and stayed.

My parents thought I'd been kidnapped by a logger.

These hiking photos were taken in my 20's and 30's.

12

Does it really matter what people think about what they are or believe in as long as they don't hurt anyone els or try to convince others by force to believe. I think we can all co exist if we give each other space to ponder upon worlds mysteries.

Jolanta Level 9 June 21, 2020

The hell threats and heaven bribed brains may be laughed off by Atheists but feared by children all their lives.....it is our duty to jail rapist priests and those who cause gay teen suicides

11

Welcome to the asylum. Enjoy your stay.

We now live in an age where many people make up their own definitions for words and concepts.
Labels are wholly subjective.
Most people feel compelled to place labels on both themselves, and others.
While the dictionary definitions should be definitive, they no longer are.

If you're going to "struggle" with what other people call themselves, or want to call you,
or what you want to call yourself, you are just making your life harder.
It shouldn't matter what anyone else wants to label you as.
The ONLY thing that should matter is what you think of yourself.
Figure that out, and you're golden.

7

Spiritual, from my understanding, is related to your emotional state, etc.

7

And since when is pigeonholing people your job,or even any of your business? Labeling is UNATTRACTIVE, at best. And many you mention are on the journey we all went on to get here, except I guess you.....oh, and describing how a Brain Tumor changed your MIL's personality (not to mention the stress of knowing she was dying...) means what, exactly? Really?

nothing. think he is just struggling with beliefs

@chiara23k but wants to label others doing the same....?

7

I really don't give a rat's ass on what people want to label themselves, as long as they don't bother me or try to proselytize me to join them on whatever the fuck they want to believe, I basically live and let live.

6

In his book, Demon-Haunted World, Science as a Candle in the Dark, Carl Sagan observed:
“Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light‐years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.”

@Larry-new Sorry to hear that. An old friend and 'fellow horseman' of Hitch's noted:
“Spirituality must be distinguished from religion—because people of every faith, and of none, have had the same sorts of spiritual experiences.”
Sam Harris, "Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion"

I think all that hinges on the use of the word spirituality and it’s definition ..in my opinion what they are actually describing is more a human emotional state than any real connection to “spirits” .

@Larry-new I’m in complete agreement! Much like Michael Shermer in his critique of Deepak Chopra, I find woo to be without form or substance and completely unsatisfying—I’m not having any either. 😉

That said, perhaps a new vocabulary is needed? As @Marionville intimated, I equate ‘spiritual’ experiences to ‘emotionally moving’ or ‘awe inspiring’ ones, but even more fulfilling. Something akin to Abraham Maslow’s “Peak Experience.”

@Larry-new And as Sam Harris points out, the term "sports." Too broad a brush?

6

it might be more woo but WTF do you care live and let live if someone wants to say they are spiritual or green or from mars if they don't try and convert you who the fuck cares

some of you think to fucking much and stress over nothing get over yourselves

I resemble that remark. 😉

rotfl. Hilarious. and spot on.

@p-nullifidian my condolences

6

When our ancetors observed a death, something did leave the body upon death... Life left the body... Because the brain ceased to function... And we now know the brain and mind are the same as you say here...

The thing is, our ancestors didn't have the word "mind" in their language... But they did have the word "spirit" which means "mind."

So to be spiritual means to be mindful...
I am spiritual... I am mindful...

5

Strange that people get more concerned with semantics than getting on with life!

@TheMiddleWay Not really!

5

To be spiritually aware is to realize that the world of our everyday experience is only symbolic, an imaginary model of ultimate reality beyond. Typically such realization brings profound wonder and awe along with appreciation and reverence.

“Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible concatenations, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in point of fact, religious.” Albert Einstein

4

That's the beauty of not being tied to a religion...is not being forced to accept the whole package of that said religion. When you are free of a religion, you can freely believe in whatever you want to believe, or suspect to believe, or think to believe without any guilt or worrying about your fellow religious brethren finding out or feeling like a heathen for not accepting all of your religion.

Not having a religion is easy... If you can't "believe" whatever element it is, .....don't. If you don't believe in "spiritual"... then don't....but thank you for asking why others believe in spirituality.

Since you're asking, I believe living things consist of 2 parts, their physical and non physical ( I guess you could say spiritual or call it life). With logical reasoning and observation.. every living thing is a little different from the other in personality or behavior even if they seem physically almost identical ( maybe except single celled organisms ), The part whether they "live on" is questionable so I don't quite believe that. Sounds like that part is more like a "santa clause" or "heaven" caveat story where you should be good" just in case".

A few points.
Most religious people are not tied to the "whole package" of their religion. "Cafeteria Christians" comes to mind, and that's most of them maybe except for groups like the Westboro Baptist Church.

All people believe and don't believe whatever they believe or don't believe through no choice of their own. (Just like Santa Claus as you stated later in your comment.) Try to start believing in Santa again. See if you can do it. Propositions are either believable to your brain or they are not. There are an innumerable amount of bits of information that go into your brain deciding on any particular proposition, but when it does, it'll take new input from the outside world to change it.

If there is a non-physical "part" to living things I don't know how it would interact with them. Even if it could, though, why wouldn't it then be able to exist without the organism and/or that organism being alive? Ostensibly, it needs to obtain a sort of lifeblood from the organism that can only be transferred while it is living if it wouldn't live on after death (not just after the organism is consumed or destroyed in some way). I think a two part theory may need some investigation into feasibility.

4

I think for some, that "spirituality" doesn't mean a higher being. More like say when meditating, you get in touch with yourself of sorts. You know you are essentially talking to your self, but in a more serene sense. Perhaps that clarity can be a "Spiritual" feeling.

4

I feel a whole lot more "spiritual', whatever that is , when I'm not so fucking tired

twill Level 7 June 22, 2020
4

I think I'm quoting W. C. Fields here:

"The only remedy for a spirited woman is spirited drink."

or a big dick in her mouth

@whiskywoman Will that took a turn.

@whiskywoman gee, that's kind of 40's "keep 'em down", ain't it?

@AnneWimsey yep antiquated for sure but the way some still think

@AnneWimsey It's just a quote

It's not saying a woman shouldn't be spirited, just what his response was (in other words, he took a big drink). I was trying to get into the spirit (hah) of all these definitions of spirituality.

4

I also have a negative reaction toward the word "spiritual", but that's a Jungian prejudice which sees spiritual pursuits as ultimately puer driven and escapist in nature. But I have no trouble acknowledging a dimension of meaning that does not revolve around rational analysis. I believe human experience is way too rich to shoe horn into a purely rational approach. It has its place of course as a useful tool but I think it best not to identify with or over emphasize that too much as the culture already pushes us in that direction. The intuitive mind is often neglected, sacrificing creativity. What I prefer is balance.

The American Jungian James Hillman made an important distinction between the spiritual and the soul. Spiritual quests are about rising above it all, gaining perspective and detachment. Soul is about sinking into the depths to respect and engage with what we find there, a more grounded endeavor. I aspire to be a soul man. But note that soul in this sense has no Christian connotation whatsoever.

MarkWD Level 7 June 21, 2020
4

Welcome to the site, I'll just have to agree with Hankster and Jolanta.

3

To me being Spiritual is the connection I have with my fellow mankind! I think of it as the link that binds us with others such as friends and family! A sense of belonging. If I don't have a connection with anyone and being alone I am sad, I don't feel very spiritual.
So being Spiritual is not a religion thing to me just a connection with people!

Jowiho Level 3 June 25, 2020
3

Spiritual is a feeling of oneness with the universe. Done.

JacarC Level 8 June 23, 2020
3

I am proposing that the word “spiritual” gets a third definition in the dictionary, one that disconnects it from a religious connotation, and there is a group in this website created just for that purpose. It is called: SPIRITUAL: A Third Definition. You may want to check it out and join in the effort. The idea is to formalize something that occurs already, which is the use of the word “spiritual” by non religious people, to define themselves or to describe themselves.

I read the into to the page. That doesn't make much sense to me. Why would you want to co-op a word that already has such a widely used definition that you want to distance yourself from?? That's like "peruse" meaning to read in detail AND look at casually, or adding the idiom "I could care less" to the same definition for "I couldn't care less". What sense does that make? You're still going to have to explain what you mean (even if you have a whole million people agree with adding that third definition), so it seems like it's just going to confuse people and waste time.

On an unrelated note, I wanted to tell you all I'm a Christian. But not like someone who believes in the divinity of Jesus Christ. Or one that grew up, converted to, or believes any of the tenets of faith of Christianity. I just really enjoy the food people make at the end of December for their Christmas parties. (This is why people think I'm an asshole...)

3

I would rely less an a dictionary for the uses of word and more on the people using them. Otherwise you just talk pass one another.

It’s important not to throw the baby out with the bath water here. I know plenty of people like what you describe and I would not discount them on the mere fact that they state they are ‘spiritual’.

3

Go to a High school pep rally. They have Team Spirit. They are motivated for their football team to win the game.

This team Spirit is NOT about worship of the non-existent flying spaghetti monster sky God. This spirit has nothing to do with eating pasta in the sky with meatballs.

Word Level 8 June 21, 2020

Just where I was headed. Spirit equates to energy for many of us. For me, saying I am "spiritual" means I respect the energy of life... It does not mean I am a worshiper of the Judeo-Christian traditional God...or anything resembling what is normally defined as "God"
Also, the idea that we are more than just our biology and that we continue after our physical death... Uuum, that is physics and absolutely true. Energy is forever, it can transmute but it cannot be destroyed.
Lastly, materialism is just another religion.

3

Very well stated. I completely agree. Saying you're atheist or agnostic and then saying you're spiritual is oxymoronic. Pick one. If there is such thing as a spirit, then why haven't one of the kagillion cell phones recorded one, like traipsing thru a cemetery at night? C'mon, that is nonsense people chose to believe coz they can't accept their own mortality.

3

I can agree in advance. Being "spiritual" can mean anything that you want it to mean. It has nothing to do with logic or evidence.

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