Agnostic.com

29 11

Hi, I'm fairly new here. Where I fit on the religious spectrum is not so clear. I've been struggling with it, in fact. I'd like to be one or the other, but while I'm generally not a believer, I just can't rule it out, and I think maybe I need to acknowledge my uncertainties and the small but persistent religious impulse that I have.

I just updated my profile bio, and here is the part of it that's relevant to religion. If anybody else is in the same place I am, I'd love to get to know them.

Not very religious, but not totally without religious impulses. I have had a few mysterious and very supportive, loving experiences that might have been from Someone--but not enough for a firm belief, not enough to base my life on.
I tend to not talk about it much and think that's a lot more pleasant than having people trying to "convert" me or lead me to Jesus or whatever. If there is going to be any leading it's going to have to come straight from whatever deity there may be. He/she/it/they is/are going to have to make it possible for me to believe.
I've tried to make it happen myself, but with no success. The Bible leaves me cold. Violence, contradictions, how it needs to be studied at length and raises so many questions. Surely this is not the kind of document we would be left for our only or main guidance.
So I honor the possibility of a loving God, maybe 5 minutes a day, acknowledge my little bit of religious impulse... thank God if He's there and has been helping me/us... ask Him to protect us and to help me be or do anything He may want... and go about my everyday business.
I wish I could find a group of people doing the same thing, because I'd like to belong, but no church I know of is anything like this. I can't stand there and recite creeds I don't believe.

So, anybody with me?

Is there in fact some sort of church or group for people like this?

Anne1954 4 Aug 17
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

29 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

I have no religious impulse. I fit in nowhere in a religious world and I also am not trying to fit into such a world.

12

You just stick to what works for you. Welcome to the site.

Hell Yea!

8

Welcome!!
I have not attended a UU church myself but understand many agnostic/atheists do and enjoy the community of it.

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

7

There must be thousands out there like you. Very tolerant and not wanting to shake the world or disappoint anyone. Hang on to whatever you like as long as it harms no-one . It would seem that a Unitarian church is what you want , but you should know that no-one here will preach at you or proselytize, I am sure one or more of the interest groups will draw you in . We do have a large spectrum so you will soon feel at home

7

I agree with @Marcie1974's recommendation. A UU church may be a place you would enjoy. I've been to my local one a few times when interesting speakers are featured and it's far more like a philosophy class than a 'church'. They are very anti Dogma and make no bones about that, but touch on many different ways of thought and seem to recognize that everyone has their own path to walk and are respectful of the differences between them.

7

Religion isn't binary there's a full spectrum of superstition.
I'm at one bitter end of that spectrum.
I believe in nothing supernatural or magical of any kind.

5

Unitarian is the place for you. A weekly get together without the god. Just people coming together.

5

I’m not sure if this is really what you’re after but Sam Harris has a lot of interesting thoughts on being “spiritual” without necessarily believing in a personal “god.” When he was younger he did a big pilgrimage to learn from spiritual gurus all over the world, and from those experiences he’s developed his own philosophies. I don’t necessarily agree with him on everything, but I agree with him on a lot of. And even when I disagree with him, I still find a lot of value in hearing what he has to say because it’s so unique and mentally stimulating. I follow him on Instagram and Facebook because the little philosophical tidbits he publishes have a positive influence on me. I also really like his wife, Annaka Harris. Reading her book “Conscious” sparked wonder in me...something I haven’t felt in a long time (not since I stopped believing in God).

kdmom Level 6 Aug 17, 2020

Thought I’d add it’s too bad we don’t live in the same area. I’d love to sit down and chat!

Love Sam Harris.

4

There are both groups and churches that leave god out. The Unitarian church and the freethinkers groups. google to see if you have either near enough to you.

I found the Society of Friends (FGC) to be more to my liking than the Unitarian/Universalists even though there were fewer atheists. Their simplicity combined with silent "worship." I still believe in some aspects of this and they are the closest thing to a church that I don't despise.

4

I have left all that religion or belief in god, behind. Experience and learning has just wiped it all away. I wish there was something great in charge, but this can’t be it, because it sure has a way of choosing that seems insane to me! People are insane, not some God, in the sky!
It’s the fellowship that is missed from the religious gatherings. It was fun at times and I enjoyed friends that I made there! Few places offer this fellowship.

4

One of my favorite thoughts, although I really have no idea who said it first it, and I'm going from memory, so It may be askewed.. The basis of intelligence starts from admitting, 'I don't know'. Which in some people implies, 'but I would like to know'. Essentially, ask questions, question everything. Yes for some, just throwing everything other than scripture out, is one way. But I. And I know I'm not alone in this. What else could be an answer? Why are there other cultures that have similar, yet very different origin stories. How are there other cultures that were at or, even older than the global flood stories. Yet they make no mention of Noah, or the Arc. The list goes on and on.

I don't fault in anyway having thoughts of what one was taught for sometimes most of their life, ideas, ideals, and stories from what ever religion. But the first step in getting out of that IS to question. You seem to be doing just that. I do applaud that, and hope you find what answers in your quest.

4

Welcome to our group! I think you will find most helpful comments here. I was fortunate to have shed the "chains" at the age of 9 and sympathize with anyone who carried it into adulthood. You are on your way!

4

I concur with visiting the Unitarian Universalist church. They are the most welcoming of various belief levels... and doubters.

4

I am with Thomas Henry Huxley on this one.

4

A loving god? Where? Certainly not the one in the Bible, because the god depicted there is a cruel, unfair, vindictive, hateful, and egomaniacal one, and the son from the bible being the same as the father, but who really never existed, except in the minds of the ignorant fools that wrote the gospels, at least the ones you were allowed to read, wreaks of total bullshit to me.

IKR? Really dysfunctional sky daddy. No wonder the evangelicals relate to 45.

@Anne1954 if you really don't want to discuss it, who am I to push. All I can say is do not mistake kindness with reality, hypocrisy is rampant among religious people.

3

I also let go of God by degrees. It didn't happen all at once. I believed for years then started toi doubt, then started to doubt more and as my doubts and questions grew, my faith continued to diminish.

It sounds to me like you're in the middle of that process. I went from being a believer to being atheist in about three years. Best of luck letting go of the God lie.

3

Hi, and welcome to the site. There is nothing wrong with doubt and there is nothing wrong with seeking and enjoying the comfort of community, even when doubting the purpose of it. I think the advice some of the others have already given you regarding joining a Unitarian congregation is probably worth considering.

As a lifelong freethinker and non-believer, I can only try to reassure you than my entire life has been filled with secular activities and communion and friendship with others without ever feeling the need to invoke a deity or embrace a religion. There are plenty of other ways to enjoy the company of others in a non worshipping way...clubs, hobby & sports groups, choirs, reading circles, local historical societies, volunteering at local charities...the list is endless. This site too, is a great way to communicate with others, and we don’t all hold the same views here, or even all call ourselves atheists, some identify as agnostic ...we’re on a spectrum from those who are merely wavering from a belief in god to full scale disbelief. We are a broad church in that respect (if you’ll pardon the expression!), so stick around and get to know us by joining in the discussions...you never know, you may find answers to some of your lingering doubts and forge some new friendships at the same time. It’s not a make believe god who holds the power to help and protect you..you have that power already within you, your strength and purpose in life are whatever you decide you want them to be.

3

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent.
Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent.
Is He both willing and able? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able or willing?
Then why call Him God?"

Epicurus> ancient Greek philosopher

3

Honoring the possibility of a loving god was one the of first things I needed to let go of... too much suffering of innocents. It's the age-old Epicurian question that finally wouldn't allow me to even consider the possibility of a loving god that played favorites, leaving the reasons for his / her / its caprice a complete mystery.

When I became a father, I had to ask myself this simple, easy question. Who is responsible for nurturing, loving and building a relationship? The child, or the parent? And what would we call a parent who purposefully remained hidden from his / her / its children? We begin by assessing the moral attributes of the god we were taught to believe in, and when we find them wanting, we must not fear to judge this god for his / her / its shortcomings.

I no longer believe in the deity I was taught to worship, as I have found him / her / it to be a repugnant model from an age of arrogance. I tried several times to refashion this god, redacting all the passages of scripture that I found offensive and immoral. But even then, the god I'd fashioned never bothered to pay me a visit. So, just like Santa Claus, he / she / it had to be discarded--given a failing grade as a 'no show.'

But even if I were shown to be wrong, I would expect this god to practice what he / she / it preached and love his / her / its enemies and turn the other cheek.

3

I agree with others that you might like a UU church. That's a good place for folks who are caught somewhere between believing in a god, and wondering if maybe there is some creative source, that remains unknown, but still exacts awe and wonder.

For me, I've created my own way of thinking about things, more having to do with the field of opposites, time, nature, space and matter, and how necessary each is to the other, and the natural consequences that arise from an imbalance versus harmony. Something like that anyway. I just try to be honest and caring and hopefully good things will come of it. So far so good. I'm happy as I can possibly be! 🙂

You also might like "Spiritual Humanism" though there isn't much to it. It is the "church" I joined to become a minister with the ability to legally marry couples with my signature humanistic wedding ceremonies. [spiritualhumanism.org]

3

Hey I found this link!

[upstatepridesc.org]

Unitarian Universalist Church of Greenville
Unitarian Universalist Church of Spartanburg
AKA church light. They let anyone in the front door. I do not recall a collection plate, at least that was my experience in Minnesota.

Authentic Yoga is also like church. Spirituality and meditation, singing possibly... you do not have to be a contortionist or conform to the Lululemons dress code despite urban stereotype.

I'm not spiritual in that sense anymore. It was a journey I traveled far enough on. Now, I'm just another nonbeliever. I think if you have questions seek answers, you probably won't find them where you think you will, and they might not lead you where you were planning.

Math ended my journey... in a strange way. But hey, to each their own!

3

Have you seen any objective evidence that any gods exist? Theist have fail to prove evidence to make me believe. I believe in zero gods and have no knowledge any gods exist.

2

Welcome.

1

Everyone has similar impulses. What I would diagnose you with is the impulse of wanting to belong. We all have that and even though there are more and more atheists and agnostics being created out of religious communities all the time, we still have many people in our circle of friends and family who are religious and naturally want us to be as well.

If you have to believe in a God then put your faith in the sun. The Sun gives us life. The sun literally created us. The sun will never leave you cold unless it is too far away to receive its warm radiation. The sun moves but we are the ones moving around it.

As the earth turns we turn away from the sun and experience night. Life is about balance. Good and bad. Positive and negative. Balance is my religion and way of life. You don't need a church asking you to tithes and offerings to you some fantasy about how you personally will come back to life, not as a zombie or a ghost, but some spirit who can have a perfect body that will never or die. And when you believe this you ignore that we already have eternal life... as a species.

And as a species, WE are God. WE help each other. WE protect each other. WE guide each other. WE do all these things when WE love each other. You're simply looking for reasons and excuses to buy into parts of the fantasy because they sound good and because it would be nice if true. But it's not. Thank your parents for bringing you into this world because they are the ones who did. And if someone else helped you then help others. That doesn't make them an angel. It makes them human. You don't need a church. You just need a community. Welcome.

1

You have mentioned a few times having a religious impulse. To me that can imply a few things, so I find myself wondering how you mean it.
There is the impulse to want to claim certainty about the unknown. There is a love of clearcut rules and moral codes. There is the fondness for ritual and comfort of ritual evolving into tradition. And there is the powerful sense of community that religion usually offers.
It sounds like you are describing yourself an agnostic theist, that is, one who recognizes something is simply unknown to them or unknowable ultimately to anyone, and yet that person likes the idea of a loving deity.

I consider myself an agnostic atheist, so not completely different. I don't believe in God(s). So.....atheist. But clearly I don't begin to comprehend the fabric of space, dark matter, dark energy, and the power that literally runs the cosmos. Metaphorically that power IS God. I am quite agnostic about the nature of that power, though I tend to default to calling it physics and see no evidence convincing enough to consider that power unified by a consciousness we as humans would recognize.

Agnosticism is a respectable position, a thoughtful position. When it comes to existing organized religious notions that try to define God, however, I am completely atheist. Those paradigms disprove themselves.

What I think keeps so many many doubters tied to religion is fear. That is intentional on the part of organized religion. Fear of punishment/damnation for being wrong is a powerful control weapon. People rarely if ever throw off that fear and abandon their religion entirely in one sudden leap. Most often it takes steps.

For me, the first step was seeing the hypocrisy of religious leaders that invalidated their claims to moral authority or as spokespersons for God.

My second step was learning enough historical Bible scholarship to finally recognize it as the hodgepodge primative sheepherder myth stories that it is. Not infallable. Not the Word of God.

My third step was recognizing my indocrination in images of God was built by those myths and peddled by those hypocrits. No reason for me to keep subscribing to that.

Finally, my fourth step was to overcome fear. Fear of being wrong. Fear of being damned for being wrong. The way I reached that step was to realize a micromanaging, intrusive, omnipotent, omnicient, loving and yet wrathful God is an impossible oxymoron.

Either there is no God, in which case we have no factual reason to believe in one,

...OR there is a deity that started things in motion but takes no notice of us individually, in which case we have no reason to fear punishment,

....OR there is this omnipotent God that takes notice but is not loving, only wrathful, in which case we are mere puppets with no hope of fooling the tryant into anything; reason pwrhaps to fear but certainly not reason to think we can outsmart and sway said wrathful totalitarian God,(I am so glad NOT to believe that option for one second)

...OR God created us, loves us, and pays attention, understanding us infinitely, our limitations, our fears, our impulses, our ignorance, our mistakes. Such an all-knowing God would never be surprised by any mistep we might make. God would understand our honest disbelief. Indeed, he would have made us know exactly how we would turn out, because he made us that way.
Anger would be impossible, as God could not be surprised and therefore never disappointed or angered. An omnipotent, omnicient loving God would have known before [he] made us exactly when and why we would do what we turn out to do. No need for Hell. No point in the unimaginable abuse of eternal torture.

In short, we have permission to be wrong and not to know everything. It is ok. No reason to fear that unknown.

@Anne1954 Yes! And thanks for the clarification. To your last paragraph, that speaks to the point of why atheist vs agnostic may be an interesting question but really shouldn't matter. What we can reject resoundingly are these concrete religious definitions of God, which even the Christian Bible declares is impossible for human minds to ever fully comprehend. Well...if God is beyond our feeble comprehension, why on Earth all the religious claims that pressure us to commit ourselves to a specific doctrine and creed? It is nonsense! If we simply let "God" be metaphor for cosmic forces and live our lives by a philosophy of kindness, forgiveness and seeking to be as good individuals as we can understand to be, surely that is the crux of what matters in life, and the question of god or no god is allowed to be an exercise of our curiosity rather than any matter of dire consequence. Honestly, the only reason any of us heathens care is that power-hungry people try to use religion as a weapon of social control.

1

For better or worse, I have come to believe in personal revelation. Learning to be still and present and aware, and believing that silence is how "God" speaks. I'm not really a joiner by nature, so can't be much help there.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:525406
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.