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MEN ONLY: What is your race/ethnic origin?

MEN ONLY PLEASE
(Women's survey found here WOMEN ONLY: What is your race/ethnic origin? )

What is your race/ethnic origin?

(Answers based on USA Title VII of the Civil Rights act of 1964 employment non-discrimination questionnaire)

View Results
TheMiddleWay 8 June 1

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6

According to my DNA results, I'm 100% European with a fairly high share of Neanderthal genes. Excuse me now, it's time for Spring cleaning. The cave gets a mite raw during the cold season.

I have about 2.5% neanderthal genetics. That means my Dad has a whopping ~5%.

The thing about Neanderthals is that some of them were genetically gifted enough to produce Cro-Magnons with very large brains. Their descendants live in some parts of Germany, the Baltic countries, Northern India, the British Isles, and maybe some other places.

@DZhukovin -- This Neanderthal lives in southwestern United States. I keep my cave immaculate because I never know when a modern female may stop by and want to try crossbreeding.

@evidentialist

Hahahahahahahaha ๐Ÿ™‚

5

SoHvaD ghewmey tuvbogh bIQHey tlhIngan

@TheMiddleWay
Exactly... <I think>

4

Squirrel.

4

I'm a messap ya survey

Lol. Ok.

3

Did you mean American men only? If not thatโ€™s a pretty weird list. If so - hello! From the rest of the world

By no means. What gives you that impression?

3

White and black are colours, not races/ethnicities. As for me, my ethnic origins are European; my colour is pink.

Pink + European = white. ๐Ÿ˜‰

@TheMiddleWay "White" is neither race nor ethnicity.

It is according to the Canadian government:


This question collects information in accordance with the Employment Equity Act and its Regulations and Guidelines to support programs that promote equal opportunity for everyone to share in the social, cultural, and economic life of Canada.

STEP E - Question identifier 19: Is this person:

Mark more than one circle or specify, if applicable.
1: White
2: South Asian (e.g., East Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan, etc.)
3: Chinese
4: Black
5: Filipino
6: Latin American
7: Arab
8: Southeast Asian (e.g., Vietnamese, Cambodian, Laotian, Thai, etc.)
9: West Asian (e.g., Iranian, Afghan, etc.)
10: Korean
11: Japanese
12: Other โ€” specify

[www12.statcan.gc.ca]

@TheMiddleWay My census answer would be "Other" - "European".

3

These are just broad racial groupings with a couple of specific ones, like Native Hawaiian etc. It's also US centric. I am no authority on racial group analysis, and while I'm not questioning your motives, I think this is not well conceived.

Given the 40+ people that have chosen to comment and the 80+ people that have chosen to answer, I'm ok with you personally not seeing value in this. ๐Ÿ˜‰

@TheMiddleWay and you think, what, that the overwhelming response to this post has been positive?

@David1955
90+ some odd responses to the poll and 40+ individual comments.
Qualify that as you will... I'm ok with how this has/is progressing.

@TheMiddleWay ah, so it's just quantity that counts. I see. Really set on reaching L9 aren't you?
Well, I qualify things a little differently.

@David1955
It's a poll.
So of course quantity counts which is why I bring up the 90+ responses.

But it's also a discussion.
So of course quality counts so that is why I bring up 40+ people have been willing to comment and engage on this topic.

By both quantity and quality, I'm ok with how this topic is progressing; your personal qualification does't change anything.

And L9 has nothing to do with it; odd of you to frame it that way.
Notice that this topic has lain quiescent for over 6+ months and only recently garnered some attention through no action of my own. If I wanted L9, there are way easier ways to achieve it than relying on a post from half a year ago. ๐Ÿ˜‰

3

My race is human.

You answer is tautologous since unless there are robots or AI answering this question, everyone that answers is human. ๐Ÿ˜€

From your photos, I'm guessing you are white... but that is admittedly only a guess since photos are not always the best indication or race nor is there any indication of your genetic or cultural background in your bio.

@TheMiddleWay Just what do you consider white, I'm a Scot and a beed apart from the english. I'm a Celt they ate anglo/saxon.

@Savage Well if you're a white Scot you're white, if you're a white Brit you're white, and if you're a white Celt you're white.

@maturin1919 That's like clubbing together parrots and frogs, well they are both green. You need to study genetics and evolution. Skin colour changes as peoples migrate. Earliest briton found was black.

@Savage I majored in biology, thanks.

Race = physical characteristics
Ethnicity = cultural characteristics

This isn't as difficult as people want to make it. It doesn't matter what the earliest Briton was found to be, the question is about the here and now.

@Savage
Is your background european?
If so, then you might be white.
Where you brought there as a slave from africa?
If not, then you might be white.
Do you get sunburned often?
If so then you might be white.
Do you have a predisposition to sickle cell anemia?
If not, then you might be white?
Do you come from a country where the majority of people are or consider themselves white?
If so, then you might be white?
Do you have epicanthic folds?
If not, then you might be white.

Like maturin says, it's really not a difficult question... and one you don't have to answer! But if you do want to answer, then I find people that try to avoid the question are merely trying to avoid being labeled as something, something they are uncomfortable being or maybe something they are uncomfortable admitting.

Also, I've noticed so anecdotal to be sure., that it's usually people that one would be justified in calling "white" that raise the biggest problem to identification for some reason.

3

Out of curiosity, what do you hope to learn from these results?

Seems that link isn't working so here is the content

I did a quick count of our our members: out of 200 male members, I counted about 12 as non-white or about 6%. Out of 200 female members, I counted about 4 as non-white or about 2%. Finally, there were less than 40 trans-men and less than 40 trans-women listed on this site...of the less than 80 trans population with photos, only one trans-woman was non-white

This was a purely visual count so that prompted this poll and what I think is an alarming statistic about this site and atheists and agnostics in genera

@TheMiddleWay Why do you find it alarming that white people make up a majority of atheists and agnostics? Based on historical context and culture of non-white people (mainly black and Latino), many don't really change their religious views.
Look at chart #4, majority of people who are atheist identify as white compared to other races/ethnicities [pewforum.org]

@TheMiddleWay

I think you should keep in mind, also, that at least some of the people here (myself included) found this site in the first place through ads on other algorithm-filtered social media, and as such, some of the traffic that brings people to join in the first place is from within the Filter Bubble. That means that membership is going to be at least partially filtered.

Thus, such results as your quick visual comparison, and even more complete results that you may or may not get from these polls, doesn't necessarily represent a problem with the site, or even with atheism or agnosticism. Rather, it merely makes apparent some of the problems of the Filter Bubble combined with, as @joeymf86 pointed out, the fact that atheism and agnosticism is simply more common among whites (at least for the time being) within our societies and cultures in general.

That latter point in particular should not really come as a surprise considering the fact that for non-whites, religion is often not just a matter of beliefs and faith, but also a component of cultural identity, and social and political activism. Such diverse purpose and active involvement in those religious sub-cultures means it is less likely that people will break out of those sub-cultures. This is particularly the case anywhere (such as the US) where racism is still a major problem and people depend on the society of their sub-culture to help one another get by in life where others from outside that sub-culture are often trying to prevent them from getting ahead, or even get by, or even live in the area, or sometimes even live at all. I think that as racism and systemic/institutional racism decrease, atheism and agnosticism among such groups is likely to increase.

@joeymf86
It's exactly because of that. Pew lists it at 78% yet my cursory, visual review of 400 people showed that to be over 90% on this site.

Because that review was purely visual, I wanted to be more exacting and have people self identify.

After all, if 66% of the pop. is white but 78% of atheists are white and over 90% of people on this site are white, I think that merits discussion on several angles.

"Based on historical context and culture of non-white people (mainly black and Latino), many don't really change their religious views"
I know of no research to back this up. Could you provide me with some; these are exactly the topics and questions I want to address.

@EntropicLynx
"I think you should keep in mind, also, that at least some of the people here (myself included) found this site in the first place through ads on other algorithm-filtered social media, and as such, some of the traffic that brings people to join in the first place is from within the Filter Bubble. That means that membership is going to be at least partially filtered."

Absolutely! And if that filter is filtering out minorities, well, yikes right?.... ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

"the fact that atheism and agnosticism is simply more common among whites (at least for the time being) within our societies and cultures in general"

And that's exactly what I want this as a prelude to discussion for. I know this is true but like you said, algorithms or otherwise, as I said above, if 66% of the pop. is white but 78% of atheists are white (as per Pew survey) and over 90% of people on this site are white, I think that merits discussion on several angles.

"That latter point in particular should not really come as a surprise considering the fact that for non-whites, religion is often not just a matter of beliefs and faith, but also a component of cultural identity, and social and political activism. "

I see no reason to believe this is only non-whites. Unless there is solid research to the contrary, I wold say that "white folk down south" religion is also a component of cultural id, and social and political activism.

@TheMiddleWay So discuss it then. Surely you know the facts about non-white atheism as your survey purports to prove it is "alarming".

@GoldenDoll
It is exactly because I don't know the facts that I try to gather as much data as I can before I start a discussion. ๐Ÿ˜‰

@TheMiddleWay As for many black and Latino people not changing their religious views, statistics speak for themselves; however after doing some research, it seems there is a rise in Latinos identifying as a religion different than their parents or not associating with any affiliation.

In regards to why both groups are still very religious compared to white people; there are different reasons which includes oppression and racism (past and present) which have contributed to both groups having lower socio-econimic status compared to whites. Education, income level, learning environment, and geography all play a factor in who we are as people and what religion we are.

To summarize a little bit from the links I provided. When Africans were brought to America as slaves, they were forced to become Christians. Slaves then used religion as a tool to unify them and keeping African cultures intact, provide a reason for what was happening to them, and have hope. This continued after slaves were freed and during black segregation and Civil Rights Movement. Black churches were built to create a sense of community and provide a safe haven for learning and expression.

For Latinos, Catholicism was spread throughout Latin and South Americas by Spain. Catholicism is a very strict religion with specific religious practices, so it quickly became part of Latinos every day lives and shaping their culture. Latinos in America were also subject to oppression and racism mainly by Protestant whites who migrated to the west. Latinos also built churches or worshiped secretly in their homes to keep their culture and religion intact.

Religion can create a sense of hope for people in terrible times. With the history and current racism towards these two groups, it's no surprise that black and Latinos are still religious. As a whole, white people in America have not encountered oppression or racism to the extent that other races have in America, so the need to preserve our culture and community isn't as strong. Religion and churches do that for blacks and Latinos.

[americanhistory.oxfordre.com]

[religion.oxfordre.com]

@joeymf86
"As for many black and Latino people not changing their religious views, statistics speak for themselves;"

They do.
This says to me that latinos have less and non-latinos have slightly more, yet o different than whites in terms of shifting religiosity.
What do these statistics say to you?

"While the drop in Christian affiliation is particularly pronounced among young adults, it is occurring among Americans of all ages. **The same trends are seen among whites, blacks and Latinos;** among both college graduates and adults with only a high school education; and among women as well as men. 

Non-Hispanic whites now account for smaller shares of evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics than they did seven years earlier, while Hispanics have grown as a share of all three religious groups"

[pewforum.org]

@TheMiddleWay But you won't find it by asking this question!

@GoldenDoll
"But you won't find it by asking this question!"
Made harder with people like you who make it a point to mess up the survey, quote: "I'm a messap ya survey".

@joeymf86
Nice of you to try and help him, but he's not interested in considering the sociological causes which may be behind his questions. I believe he reposted with Men/Women instead of continuing his "alarming thread" because everyone ate his lunch over there.

@joeymf86 I agree,many of my neighbors ,co workers and friends are people of color.Yet many employers ;clubs;
social organizations;are pro religion.Watch the t.v. shows,radio,the elder population especially is very religious. Their exposure
to the option of free thought has not been extensive
enough for the information to be readily availible.
This site is what? 2 years old?
There is no way possible to disseminate into the cultures the knowledge
of its exsistance

@joeymf86 my personal experiences
mirror these facts; I have no agenda ;
believe in the goal of the site;thanks
for the source material...
p.s.
don't know if I income matters.

3

Human being from this planet....

True, but are you devoid of ethinicity for it? Would you be able to apply for a minority scholarship for example?

@TheMiddleWay my ethnicity in this digital world is generic as any human can be. Anything else is irrelevant

3

Plain ol' kraut.

3

Human race / origin of the species, thats me !

True, but does that answer absolve an organization from hiring only people of your ethnic background and not off others since it would be hiring humans?

@TheMiddleWay
I am not in the hiring line ! I...AM....RETIRED. Yipeeee !

3

Human

2

Ancestors on my father's side were escaped slaves who made it to Canada. In 1915, my great grandmother traveled from Alberta to the Chicago World's Fair and purchased the first plot of land in a newly founded town in Michigan.

Ancestors on my mother's side were freemen who owned an island off the coast of Louisiana. Before the Civil War and until the Jim Crow era, they got rich from renting that land to the timber industry. They were eventually forced off their land (along with millions of other black people) during the Great Migration.

Buxx Level 7 Feb 17, 2019

Would you identify as black, human, or other? I'm testing out a thesis that it's mostly white people that try to evade the question by answering "human" to "what race are you?"

@TheMiddleWay black

2

The Jews are going to be upset you didn't have a separate line for them. I never got that. How can Jewish be a race?

I'm with you, especially considering that anyone can become jewish and thus "change" races and that the jewish races is not passed on genetically... two jewish parents will not necessarily make a jewish child.

2

Lol, this kind of question don't even make sense where I come from.
I have italians, spanish, portuguese, american natives, africans.

So you don't have races/ethnicities there?

@maturin1919 they don't even matter that much, most of people are mixed, just some really idiots care about being part of a pure ethnicity.
I can look more like white but for real with all this mixing, what are my ethnicity?

@Pedrohbds Race is physical characteristics and ethnicity is cultural characteristics.

So you tell me.

@maturin1919 So you can say by yor definition I am hispanic ethnicity (Brazil has lots of difference from spannsh america but it counts). And about race... I really do not know.

@Pedrohbds
I get that. My ancestry is european and that would make me white. But my upbringing, and generations of ancestors, are all from Chile and that would make me hispanic.

However, given that I was born and raised in Chile, I consider myself hispanic. A lot of this question has to do with how you identify yourself, not how others label you if that makes sense.

2

Technically, there no such thing as race in humans.

The biological definition of race is a geographically isolated breeding population that shares certain characteristics in higher frequencies than other populations of that species, but has not become reproductively isolated from other populations of the same species. (A population is a group of organisms that inhabit the same region and interbreed.)

Read more: [biologyreference.com]

Because humans have moved across the surface of the Earth, interbreeding wherever they travelled. This mobility and proclivity to have sex (forcibly or otherwise) precludes the opportunity for a population to be and remain geographically isolated. A necessary element in the biologic evolutionary definition. Therefore, there is no identifiable race gene in humans.

Race, or what we call race is more a matter of sexual selection and natural selection. Peoples in a specific geographical location produce more melanin in high ultraviolet locations, and less in lower ultraviolet levels. Peoples in these respective areas are deemed healthier due to their melanin content, and therefore deemed a more desirable mate (a combination of both sexual selection and natural selection).

So as we ask the question about what race you are, it is a nonsensical question in humans. It is a cultural delineation, not an evolutionary or biological definition.

How is it nonsensical to ask what race someone is? You admit that itโ€™s a cultural delineation. How does that invalidate anything? By that logic, asking what culture someone identifies with is a nonsensical question.

"So as we ask the question about what race you are, it is a nonsensical question in humans."

I respect that race has no meaning to you. But I would ask you that you respect that race has meaning to others.

Ask a black person, an innuit, a hispanic what race they are and they will answer quite effortlessly black, innuit, or hispanic.

It's a fact that categories of people exist and that those categories are genetic. Two black parents will produce a black child, hence the black race. Two asian parents with epicanthic folds will produce a child with epicanthic folds, hence the asian race.

(PS: In fact, I've noticed that in this thread, it's mostly/only white people that use the "race doesn't exist" card or give the "human race" as an answer... perhaps as a way to be a part of the discussion without actually having a discussion. ๐Ÿ˜Ÿ )

2

Not sure you needed a poll to determine that there are more whites than other races/ethnicities on the app.

Should be difficult to get any viable data considering the amount apathy towards your effort... I understand what you're doing and I support you 100%. Not sure so many other people do though.

What's your next move after validating what I would assume was a pretty obvious conclusion? (That would be the disproportionate populations on the app) I recognize that it's standard to leave no room for assumption and so this survey would help to close in on that assumption
I'm interested to see what you plan on following up on this with ๐Ÿ˜‰

The problem with "obvious" is that while it is to be expected there be more majority than minority representation in this app, as befitting population demographics, if that majority is disproportionate with the population then perhaps something is being done, direct or indirect, knowingly or unknowingly, to skew the population to one demographic while not including another demographic.

After all, as I posted on this aggregate thread Possibly alarming statistic about agnostic.com membership , if it is the case that 94% of men and 98% of women here are white, that is grossly disproportionate with the amount of general white population and narrower atheist/agnostic population.

So IF there were a problem, which is all I'm trying to identify, then we can work on solustions.

Ideally, such solutions would involve having a conversation on ways that we all can promote this group to a wider audience. Or talking to Admin about ways to get broader demographic coverage. Or maybe there IS nothing that can't be done and minorities simply aren't interested in discussing these issues as much as white people (Crimson67 made an excellent point of why this could be so in the aggregate thread)

However, it's clear that for a freethinking group, there are some thoughts that are freer to think than others, you know? And it's interesting that none of the minorities that responded had a problem with the poll... the only people that did were white! I could read A LOT into that but I don't want to...

@TheMiddleWay Yeah, I knew what you were getting at.

I'm just wondering if it really is a problem. I know the disproportion exists, but so What? Is it really a problem?

I doubt it is and I'm not exactly sure I'm in line with Crimson67's thinking. I don't think it's about clustering or fear. I think it's just got more to do with culture and difference of interest and beliefs based on the differences in cultures. I know a lot of my Latinos tend to be Catholic and embrace the role of religion in their lives. They aren't even aware of the position of agnosticism and don't care to know. Many of my black friends also tend to ignore religious topics and simply practice church-going and regular religious beliefs, ignorant and apathetic towards thinking any deeper than their pastor makes them.

I'm not saying that that is the only case. It's just what I've observed down here in the bible belt of the stupid South.

Especially considering my own discovery of the app through Reddit. (I'm Latino btw just to clear the water some.) Doesn't seem really that easy to discriminate with advertising using social media. Everything spreads like wildfire... But again, your efforts provide evidence to back up such claims. Thanks.

Edit: expansion and reflection

@EliRodriguez11
I'm latino as well, from Chile. ๐Ÿ™‚

@TheMiddleWay Texan, descended from Spain ?

Edit:
Then shouldn't you be aware of the significance of religion in the Latin people's lives? It's pretty outrageous how cool they are to just not think about shit any deeper than they have to. Lots of us idolize and worship virgin Mary, Joseph, and have pictures of Jesus right next to roosters and family pictures. It's like an essential component to being a part of Latin culture.

People like you and I are rare.

Thanks again middle.

@EliRodriguez11
"Then shouldn't you be aware of the significance of religion in the Latin people's lives? I"

Very aware! Ay Dios mio am I aware! LOL

But as essential as religion is to latinos, so it is to whites: consider that the prototypical "christian fundamentalist" is not black or brown or asian but white. As well, the south shows just how much religion forms a part of the white identity.

"People like you and I are rare."
Ain't that the truth! LOL

@TheMiddleWay hahaha ...too bad you're miles away middle, it would be nice to have a few drinks, chats, and debates with ya.

@EliRodriguez11
Absolutely!

2

Categorizations such as this one are both inaccurate and incomplete. Nobody is just one thing, especially in our increasingly diverse world. So to be truthful, everyone should just check "other." LOL

[humanorigins.si.edu]

"Categorizations such as this one are both inaccurate and incomplete. "
Good enough for checking compliance with Title VII of the Equal Rights Act of 1963 in the USA... good enough for me. ๐Ÿ™‚

@TheMiddleWay Yes, our two country's needs are different in this area.

@josephr
Not too much. Both countries are very much interested in how their ethnic diversity plays a role in the function of their country and society.

"Ethnic Diversity Survey
There are two primary objectives of the survey. First of all, the survey will help us to better understand how people's backgrounds affect their participation in the social, economic and cultural life of Canada. Secondly, the survey will provide information to better understand how Canadians of different ethnic backgrounds interpret and report their ethnicity."

[www12.statcan.gc.ca]

@TheMiddleWay Thank you.

I have believed what you expressed for
ten years or so,and have acted accordingly.

2

Pale ๐Ÿ˜€

Italian, Irish, German, and Native American

I will not entertain the people who tell me I'm just American.

@Hebert54 Ok, I'll play along. I'm not trying to prove anything. What are you trying to prove? If people can't understand the difference between nationality and ethnicity then that's on them. I'm just as much all of those things as I am American, and probably even more so those things. I say that because if I decided to go through the naturalization process and move to Japan then I would become a Japanese citizen and my nationality would also be Japanese as well as American. There are people with more than 1 and even more than 2 passports and nation citizenship. My ancestry will never change as it's been handed down to me through my DNA. In every NATION there are people within that nation with different ETHNICITIES. There IS a difference! Also, the only true Americans are the Native Americans. So I guess my ethnicity ALSO includes American because my mother's side also has Native American ancestry. Just because you're born somewhere it doesn't automatically make you a part of that ETHNICITY, although it could if that ETHNICITY was one of the first settlers there like the Native Americans. If you were Japanese and moved to America, it doesn't mean your ETHNICITY is American, but it makes your NATIONALITY American and Japanese. Under the same situation, if you had a kid after you moved to America, it would mean your kids NATIONALITY is American and his or her ETHNICITY is whatever your ethnicity is, which isn't American.

Race, nationality, and ethnicity are all completely different things. Some people talk about them like they're all the same. They're not.

@Hebert54 And just what do you think that would be? That I can discern different terms and ideas?

2

This is not a properly written questionnaire.

I am in the "mixed" category, and most of us are in that category.

Pure races/ethnicities are rare, and I wouldn't be surprised if they barely existed at all.

My father is over 90% white with some east asian. My mother is over 90% middle eastern (persian), south asian, and minorly white. Those are all typologically distinct groups.

That is why you can choose multiple options....in your case, I would suggest "white and other"

@TheMiddleWay I would suggest you do something more useful with your time than try to categorise people. Why do you want to know anyway? Are you gonna block the races you don't like?

@GoldenDoll

I don't think he is like that

@GoldenDoll
"Why do you want to know anyway?"
Because as a minority, I saw a potential trend and want to discuss it

Possibly alarming statistic about agnostic.com membership

" Are you gonna block the races you don't like?"
I don't have a single block to my name and have no plans to change that.
But thanks for asking! ๐Ÿ˜€

@GoldenDoll Uh, you categorized me when we had our discussion a while back when you said I wasn't Italian, Irish, or German because I didn't partake in their cultures or live there.

@Piece2YourPuzzle Someone said that!? That's retarded, those are terms of citizenship and/or blood origin.

2

Human

Does being human mean you are devoid of ethinicity?

@TheMiddleWay Ethnicity and race are two distinct concepts, are they not? [livescience.com] "Human" was my official answer to the US census,so why should I give you a different answer? [livescience.com]

@doug6352
""Human" was my official answer to the US census,so why should I give you a different answer? "
You don't have to; purely voluntary. But "human" as an answer is of no use in promoting the Equal Rights Act of 1964, from when these polls come from, not the census.

If you were running a business and hired nothing but white people, saying "but I'm hiring humans" would still run you afoul of that Act.

And in this particular case, the possibility that minorities like myself are underrepresented in this site is not addressed by people answering "human". ๐Ÿ˜Ÿ

@TheMiddleWay My goodness, you certainly know how to open a can of worms!

Which minority do you think you represent? People with PhDs in Physics? People from Chile? People who speak with a Spanish accent? There are so many minorities to represent! In my case I think I represent the minority "people who think clearly and reason well". LOL Which minority does Martha Argerich represent? Woman? Hispanic? Argentine? Catalonian? Jew? Long-term cancer survivor? World's most famous living pianist?(that is definitely a minority of one!).

If anyone is running a business and hired only White people they would eventually go out of business. Business's need to hire the best people they can get, or else their competition will, and they will go bankrupt. Academia and government are under less pressure to hire the best, and maybe that's where your attitudes were formed. The business I work for is run by a woman, and my immediate superior is a Black man. They are both almost as smart as me (LOL), work very hard, and are very well qualified.

Now I am wondering about you. My original assumption was that you were a brilliant man with two PhD's in Physics. But now due to your newly revealed attitude I am wondering if you got some special assistance because you fill the Hispanic quota. Are you an "affirmative action physicist"? It really doesn't help you for anyone to suspect that you are anything but the very best, like Martha Argerich.

The great Black economist Thomas Sowell frequently receives criticism for opposing "affirmative action", based on the assumption that he himself benefited from it. But Sowell was quick to point out that when he went to Harvard in the 1950s they didn't have affirmative action. I recommend that everyone learn by reading Dr Sowell's writings, as I often have. [hoover.org]

@doug6352
"If anyone is running a business and hired only White people they would eventually go out of business."
Which is exactly what I don't want to see happen on this site: to have it go out of business for only attracting white people.
Rather, I would like to see as many different viewpoints expressed and that involves PhD, MS, non-high school grads... chileans, mexican, south africans, mongolians... cancer survivors, cancer suffers, cancer family members... jews, muslims, catholics, atheists, agnostics,....

The more viewpoints the better; the less the worse.

1

I don't do "race", it's a social construction used to fortify racist notions, however I do cultures and I share both African and Indigenous cultures which both happen to be very similar and in instances the same. I don't understand the terms "Black and White" albeit I used them for expediency, but I prefer African, European because they are geo PLACES whereas there's no such place as Black or White land..

Race is also a valid scientific concept used to distinguish the ethnic heritage of groups of people, and to denote the genetic differences that make certain groups of people more or less susceptible to certain conditions.

@icolan what makes it a "scientific valid concept?" do you know its origins? Remember this was in the 17 and 18 hundreds and you know how "scientific" they were at that time..lol

Racial anthropology
Further information: Physical anthropology ยง History, and Historical race concepts

Blumenbach's five races.
Blumenbach's work included his description of sixty human crania (skulls) published originally in fascicules as Decas craniorum (Gรถttingen, 1790โ€“182๐Ÿค“. This was a founding work for other scientists in the field of craniometry. He divided the human species into five races in 1779, later founded on crania research (description of human skulls), and called them (1793/1795):

the Caucasian or white race. Blumenbach was the first to use this term for people of European origin, believing that the people of the Caucasus were the most beautiful of the world.[2]
the Mongolian or yellow race, including all East Asians and some Central Asians.
the Malayan or brown race, including Southeast Asian and Pacific Islanders.
the Ethiopian or black race, including sub-Saharan Africans.
the American or red race, including American Indians.
Further anatomical study led him to the conclusion that 'individual Africans differ as much, or even more, from other Africans as from Europeans'.

Blumenbach argued that physical characteristics like skin color, cranial profile, etc., depended on geography, diet, and mannerism.

Like other monogenists such as Georges-Louis Leclerc, Comte de Buffon, Blumenbach held to the "degenerative hypothesis" of racial origins. Blumenbach claimed that Adam and Eve were Caucasian inhabitants of Asia (see Asia hypothesis),[12] and that other races came about by degeneration from environmental factors such as the sun and poor diet. Thus, he claimed, Negroid pigmentation arose because of the result of the heat of the tropical sun, while the cold wind caused the tawny colour of the Eskimos, and the Chinese were fair-skinned compared to the other Asian stocks because they kept mostly in towns protected from environmental factors. He believed that the degeneration could be reversed in a proper environmental control and that all contemporary forms of man could revert to the original Caucasian race.[13]

"I don't do "race", [...] I don't understand the terms "Black and White" albeit I used them for expediency,"

You have just contradicted yourself since you admit that race is useful concept even if for expediency.

As Icolan points out, even if the original basis for race based on craniology can be dismissed, the genetic basis for race cannot. If you have african ancestry, if you are "black" you are more predisposed to sickle cell anemia... if you have asian ancestry, if you are "asian", you have a 1 in 3 chance of having alcohol intolerance... etc etc.

@Touched What makes it a scientifically valid concept is it's current usage in genetics, biology, sociology, etc. It has nothing to do with the historical usage of the term.

@icolan just like a European culturalist... the past means nothing and has no connection to your glorious future which by the way in unknown and unknowable.. take care icolan

@TheMiddleWay if i didn't use them, most folks won't know what the hell I'm talking about because they have been so enculturated.. as an example, your response..

@TheMiddleWay it wasn't just on craniology, there's religious, cultural ideologies, anatomy and social theory all mixed in there together.. SKCell evolved from geological disposition and ALL people in the topics didn't develop the disease. However, and you won't believe me, because as I've found out over the years, this statement doesn't support Euro science or cultural ideology; but ALL people from the geo region we call Africa do share a deep seeded cultural kinship.. Tell me why didn't the African, who has been on the planet as human beings pretty much forever, develop the mechanical precision of the ballet? However, all Africans share in their rhythms of Nature in dance and ideas of communal-ism as opposed to the Euro idea of individualism.

@icolan ideas of race are social theories...now just like 'power" allows you to change meanings to suit your political climate doesn't alter it's original purpose. for example, the usage of the word "white and Black' to refer to this idea of race is antiquated with the advent of those very things you mentioned, DNA, biology, genetics, "miscegenation" however we still use the words, why? Because it suit the Europeans political, cultural, economic and social purpose..

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Glad to see word Caucasian was not included. I had to point out to someone that it also includes Asians, Europeans, African and the Middle Easterners.

I followed the governments designation; so if they don't use Caucasian, neither would I.

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Yeah I know... booooring.

godef Level 7 Feb 17, 2019
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