Palestine as Litmus Test: If Democratic candidates like Harris, Booker, etc. sell out to AIPAC, they will also sell out to corporations as Obama and Hillary did. Bernie is the only incorruptible candidate. If the Dems continue to nominate sellout candidates, we must look past one election and work for a long-term solution to the worldwide problems of capitalism. Trump is merely the most recent manifestation of capitalism's injustice. A deeper solution must address not only Trumpism and inequality at home but also US imperialism abroad. One possibility: Join and vote for the Green Party. And practice democracy in the streets!
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34 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.In theory, the green party , or other 3rd parties might seem like a good idea, but regardless of principle. it only amounts to a spoiler vote that, on anything but a local level, guarantees a repugnacant win.
wolf041
Level 7
Dec 29, 2019
0
The point is to help create a movement that looks past one election…
Without this, we are doomed to supporting corporate democrats forever. As Gandhi said, non-cooperation with evil is a sacred duty.
@Krish55 so true, but casting a protest vote that enables the greater of the evils to retain power, is cooperation with evil.
The reality in this country, so long as candidates can spend as much money as they can muster , is that we will be stuck with whatever corporate shill who pretends to support our beliefs.
@wolf041 and what will left after 4 more years of crazy governance by an imbecile
Sanders, Warren ticket would be hard to beat.Sanders on top with Warren as VP as back up if Bernie would become unable to complete his term.
bs-prophet
Level 2
June 10, 2019
7
dnc had a private meeting recently to discuss the bernie problem guess who they invited to sit in on it? Peter Paul Montgomery Buttigieg, need i say more.
metalhead222
Level 8
Apr 19, 2019
6
Bernie is still our best bet. I have to look hard to find someone as much in line with my beliefs. It's appalling watching Dem sorta-bes suck up to Aipac while the inhumane actions continue in Palestine (what's left of it)...
Serendiphany
Level 3
Apr 21, 2019
7
With out a parliament and saddled with only a two party system we need to work within the party knowing the repubs are dying and yet still maintaining power through manipulation and court stacking when they have power. As much as a Green party would be great, voting that way now will ensure more years of destruction. I'd be in favor of more destruction if I thought at some point a rebellion would rise from the ashes, but it won't.
Beowulfsfriend
Level 9
Apr 19, 2019
4
Bernie, maybe if he renounces his pro russia stance. Green party, never, because a third party will never win. A protest vote might feel good for a moment, but does nothing to address the issues that we face.
Krysia22
Level 7
Apr 19, 2019
5
I didn't know Bernie had a pro-Russia stance. I know about his trip to the USSR 30 yrs ago and the way the Russians promoted his candidacy, but not that he has a policy that's in any way out of the mainstream in this area. What do I need to know about this?
So I have trouble understanding why you would refer to Bernie as incorruptible. That is a very strong word. He seems like a well meaning man, and a true believer in social and economic justice, but he is still a politician who has and will continue to make compromises to be effective and electable. Look at his record on gun control or environmental regulation vs job creation, he has definitely progressed in these areas, but his voting record in the past has not been perfect in my opinion. All politicians are flawed human flesh, with egos and inner psychological lives that effect their decision making. It is only through the hard work of holding them accountable, and pushing to have our voices heard that any politician can be successful in changing the massive inertia of the status quo away from human extinction. No man can bear the weight of that alone or he will succumb no matter how noble his intentions. Only together as a humanist movement for social responsibility, and sustainability can we hope for real change.
Xeno
Level 2
June 15, 2019
3
He may modify his position for voters but he won't do that for campaign contributions.
easy ask him how many donations he has taken from wall street , insurance co. pharma oil industries and so on . his policies are not always perfect. compare his voting record to any other 40 year politician , and say with a straight face he is not a champion of the people?
@metalhead222 36million averaged at 18/donor...any large donations wiuld have skewed the average.. there couldnt have been many
It's not "if" they sell out, it's not "when" they sell out because they have already sold out.The DNC is not interested in actually winning as long as they themselves remain in power.
BillPettinger
Level 2
Apr 23, 2019
4
Why didn't Bernie run as a green party Candidate?
Where is the green party grass roots organising and base?
Tooreen
Level 7
Apr 19, 2019
3
The Green Party got 1% of the vote at the last presidential election -- could be one reason.
No voting for third party candidates. If we want to win this, have to vote for the Democratic nominee...
Howie Hawkins won the California Primary with 36% over 4 other CANDIDATES
Trump is not a Capitalist, or a Populist. Trump is a Trumpist. Period.
Alienbeing
Level 8
Sep 13, 2020
2
Its about judges, this is silly. Your perfect candidate doesn't exist, learn to compromise or learn to live in Trumps America. Bernie lost, deal with it.
clarkatticus
Level 7
Apr 23, 2020
2
Bernie didn't lose he was cheated again deal with it.... Biden couldn't have made it to "super Tuesday" without his dark money PAC which was funded by Fossil fuel money, Big Pharma, Heath insurance companies and HMOs, and Wall Street investors many of whom gave far more money to Trump's campaign. Until idiots like you stop playing their games and spewing the same bullshit they feed you this country will never rebuild....
@Lizard_of_Ahaz Bernie doesn't agree with you.
@clarkatticus Bullshit Bernie does agree with me privately because he knows the FACTS unlike you. He isn't saying it publicly because he doesn't want Trump re-elected....
@Lizard_of_Ahaz you know you just agreed with me, right?
@clarkatticus No I did not but you are not smart or literate enough to understand what I wrote apparently.... Idiots like you and the rest of the Clinton wing don't care about anything but power and would rather let Trump get elected than siding with the voters.
@Lizard_of_Ahaz I supported Bernie in 16 and 20. Bernie had plenty of money, sadly he didn't have enough support within the party. Its a process to convert enough Democrats to progressive ideals, he couldn't do it, Super Tuesday tanked him. I remember Pelosi in the 80s getting started just after the Harvey Milk murders. It was said she was way too progressive, now she's too conservative. Pelosi will nurture AOC and groom her for leadership roles. AOC is the future of the party.
@clarkatticus You weren't paying attention.... and just admitted the DNC committed fraud...
@Lizard_of_Ahaz everyone played within the rules, even Hillary in 2016. The rules were changed because of 2016. You might not like the system but that has nothing to do with the truth.
@clarkatticus Liar....
@Lizard_of_Ahaz show me where something was done illegally by Clinton or Biden. BTW, I was a Delegate to the California Democrat State Convention for years.
I'm worried that Bernie, will only get around 40%and the disgusting centrists will crown someone else.
Boudica
Level 5
Jan 5, 2020
2
That, unfortunately, is a very reasonable concern. For Bernie, Defeating the DNC and the corporatists in the democratic party will be much more challenging than beating Trump.
The good news is that he has a ton of money and a wave of momentum.
Bernie won over 50 % of delegates on election days but BILLARY illegally switched many of them to alternates or used union proxy votes in Nevada to over come huge Sanders victories....the legally elected delegates were waiting out side Philadelphia to replace the illegal BILLARYbots when Bernie betrayed us all reading all those lies on live TV for BILLARY....our plan was to mute the SuperDelegates rule right after we forced criminal Debbie Wasserman schultz out of her job....its ok to let a mayor or Governor have a floor seat in each state but not let them vote for POTUS
I think going third party is a dead end plan. Much better to take over one of the main parties as Bernie is currently doing.
RoboGraham
Level 8
Jan 4, 2020
2
I think the biggest problem with this idea is the centrist will not vote because Bernie's not a " dem." In reality they're still mad that their candidate lost.
@Boudica That's probably true for some. But most hate Trump so much that they will vote blue no matter who. We did it for Hillary last time,most of us.
And Bernie has an ace up his sleeve. His consistent advocacy for policies that help the working class and his conflict with the elites and establishment are very popular with demoralized potential voters who are so disenchanted with the system that they usually don't bother voting. These people will come out for Bernie because they can see that he is genuine and that he, unlike Obama, actually will change things for the better.
As "Democracy" is practiced in this country, a vote for a third party which can boast about 1/1000 of registered voters as members, is a wasted effort. Capitalism is an economic system, not a governmental system. Israel is its own entity, not a protectorate of the United States. Money is the thing that wins elections through votes, not idealism. There is no "Ideal" candidate because our Congress is a place where compromise is the factor which allows bills/laws to be enacted. To my mind, the last Green Party presidential candidate, although an intelligent and well-spoken American, was about 1/4 bubble out of plumb when she spoke. Bernie is an idealist and while I like some of the ideas he promotes, I'm not sure his team has included all the possible consequences of enacting his policies when they advocate them. They make great sound bites, but when dissected don't feel like there's a good foundation under them. That's my take on it.
SiouxcitySue
Level 8
July 10, 2019
2
What about Bernie doesn't make sense when it is dissected? Also, we don't leave the Israel-Palestine entity alone. We spend billions of dollars supporting the oppression of Palestinians.
It's actually your points that don't make sense when they are dissected...
@Krish55 Thank you for pointing that out.
You are so wise and you see the big picture as well. Anyone with a lick of sense can see that a third party vote under the circumstances might make someone feel like they are making a statement but they are just enabling an opposition candidate to have a better chance at winning. In an ideal world, if Bernie were elected and if things miraculously leaned in favor of his proposed policies, it would be wonderful, but the real world of corporate politics would prevent a favorable outcome if those policies were somehow enacted. They would have to be trimmed down just as The Affordable Healthcare act was. Aim for the stars but settle for a move in the right direction. I personally don't see Bernie getting the nomination and prefer Warren over Biden or anyone else at this point. She has the best electability profile at the moment.
@bebopbuddha Since I'm a registered independent voter I will vote for any candidate the dems run, but I Like Warren. She has focus and has been around long enough to understand which battles she might win. She has also read the constitution and at least one or two books. I'm even willing to bet she took her own exams in college. Have you seen the meme of trump and Warren, like on a debate stage, wherein trump smirks "how about a DNA test" and Warren responds "How about an IQ test?" Bernie is loud, as is trump.
I voted Bernie in 2016 primary but he disgusts me now. He is the main reason we have Trump now.
Kiote
Level 3
June 18, 2019
2
Really? How so?
@Krish55 honestly dnc is why we have trump right now, blaming Bernie is nonsense
Corporate Democrats: “we can’t nominate Bernie because he will lose.” HRC loses to Donald freaking Trump. Corporate Democrats: “HRC lost because of Bernie”. Me: “Ok. Now I’m certain you all are full of shit.”
@Krish55 WWW.HOWIEHAWKINS.US PEACE THROUGH GREEN JOBS vote for healers not killers
Still to early for me to make a choice. One thing I know I won't do is vote for the green party.
Redheadedgammy
Level 9
Apr 19, 2019
1
Racists still cowardly blaming Nader for the Jeb Bush Crime families terrorizing 50 thousand black voters away from polls at GUNPOINT in over 100 Florida 2000 November counties and the insane recount in ONLY 4 COUNTIES.....GREENS are the solution to racist Democrats enabling illegal Republicans war crimes profiteering WWW.HOWIEHAWKINS.US peace through Green jobs
Larry68Feminist
Level 7
Jan 15, 2020
1
I met Green Party founder Petra Kelly in 79 or so and was involved for many years in trying to get enough votes to get matching funds for the next election cycle. I now view this as a trap, because the Green party candidate will pull voted from the more progressive of the corporate parties candidates. Ralph Nader, in my opinion, scuttled the Green party to get a word in edgewise. The Green party then circled wagons to insist his 70,000 Florida voters would have voted half for Bush. This lack of reflection on the pre-existing problem of structurally being a spoiler party has made the Green party the object of blame and hatred. I feel like I have watched in slow motion, powerlessly, as the party, as been misused and permanently destroyed as a possible way out of the political mess we call the "United" LOL States.
Pagnatheist
Level 3
Jan 14, 2020
1
Set a goal. Voters in 33 states have zero democracy. They elect their own predators.
Voters in 17 states have some democracy because they have the direct initiative, referendum and recall. They are Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Illinois, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Washington, Washington city and District of Columbia.
Source: Ballotpedia.
I voted for Bernie in the Virginia primary.
Nowever, in this election, a vote for any 3rd candidate is a vote for the orange blob. WE must defeat him first; then we can move forward. If pos is re-elected, we won't have any kind of democracy (we have little enough now as it is).
HumanistJohn
Level 8
Sep 14, 2020
0
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