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It's humankind's best interest to THINK God/s out of existence

SimonMc 3 June 9
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A thought experiment
This is my take on how region got going. It's here to be criticized so don't hold back. I'm always up for free education.
I'm puzzled as to why some people believe in god and some don't. Brain washing doesn't quite do it for me; wouldn't the first believers have had to have been brain-washed by believers? I feel strongly that all people have a desire for there to be someone who is ultimately responsible. I think, also, that most people have trouble with the idea of death being just that, final.
In ancient times, as soon as some people were able to communicate these feelings amongst themselves, they did. Having imagination, they made up stories. Some of these stories, those about supernatural beings, became a possibility during times of deprivation.
When things seem hopeless, and you know the end is nigh, you may as well appeal to a fictional being as not. It can't do any harm. After all, no-one has ever proved they didn't exist.
For those who survive the bad times, especially if the "prayers" seem to "work" more than once, it probably looked as if the the stories could be true.
If you can convince most of the tribe of your revelation, and the wish for a higher being is strong enough in these others, then you have the seeds of a religion. If this religion fosters a spirit of cooperation within the tribe, and astute leaders would encourage it, bigger and better community projects become successful, including the elimination of rival tribes. So religion arises out of insecurity in hard times.
If this is roughly how religion arose in a rational being, then perhaps we can't ever eliminate religion until we eliminate poverty and strife. And if we do, then as soon as bad times come round again, religion will return.

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I presume that by this you mean that we should encourage those who believe in a god or gods to think more critically about it. To those of us who think rationally, the application of critical thought would immediately debunk the nonsense in these religious tomes that believers hold so sacred. However, having been brain-washed from birth they are usually quite resistant to logic. Just when you think a believer is coming round to a more rational point of view, they play their trump card.....Blind faith ! It is a winner every time.

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Gods seem to pop into and out of existence quite often. Mythras is sadly ignored. Do I care?

Regburns Level 5 June 19, 2018
2

Hi everyone. Just to say hello. I am a Brit living in Australia for 11years. Lovely people, lovely country but I do miss the stealthy sardonic wit that made me what I am today!!! I hope it's okay to hang out with you guys from time to time for some good old home-spun cynicism! Oi, don't worry about dryin' the dishes ma, I'll get the kettle on.

Geoffrey51 Level 8 June 13, 2018
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Is it the job of atheists to struggle against religions? I fully accept that religions produce as much damage as good, maybe more. However, the fact that I don’t believe in Jesus, or whoever, is a negative. It doesn’t follow that I need to oppose their beliefs. That is a very different position. By the way, I also categorically refusecto oppose unicorns or the belief in unicorns. That way lies the risk that I may have to burn short horned unicorn believers at the stake.

Regburns Level 5 June 11, 2018

You sound to me like a very practical agnostic!

I agree, saying that you are an atheist is simply a statement of your non-belief. It is not your job or duty or whatever to oppose religion or belief of any kind. But the world divides into those who think we have to actively oppose what we think is wrong, or causes harm, and those who think it okay to do nothing.

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The only way to confront the absurdity of religion, is to actually know the absurdities and inconsistencies in the actual books of faith.
Then we have to confront the influence and insidious impact that religion has on our daily lives, through laws, institutions and structures.
The Church (Anglican) is attached to our own state structure and numerous laws have initiated prejudice and oppressions on the citizenry (In the UK, you are a subject).
What we are discovering, is the last groans of the dinosaurs who are confused by a changing world. A world that is growing in science, technology and environmental awareness that brings the visible absurdity of our Judeao-Christian religion a clear absurdity. Once the absurdity is clear, Islam will be in visible trouble, as the Koran rests on numerous assertions and theological influence from both Judaism and Christianity. Hence the resort to violence, intimidation and threats from its quarter. Christianity can so easily go the same way, as the conflict in Northern Ireland demonstrated, when political issues are fused with religion. The most toxic of brews but should be seen for what it is. Desperation. Which neatly sums up the abnormality of our current times, as Britain prepares to exit from the EU and America hunkers down into an isolationist delusion from Trump.

robred19 Level 3 June 11, 2018
2

How can something that doesn't exist in the first place, be thought out of existence. I don't think we need to attempt a mirror reversal of Anselm. I think the best that we can do is demonstrate the logical weakness of the theistic system, and press the apologists to the point of crushing them if necessary to give evidence for their assertions. Since they cannot, RIDICULE is our strongest weapon.

rcandlish Level 7 June 9, 2018

I have the perfect refutation for Anselm...

@MattHardy By all means please feel free to share.

@rcandlish No need, the very fact that it's perfect means that it must exist as non-existence would be an imperfection.

Perhaps then it is better phrased as
It's humankind's best interest to THINK the conception and worship of God/s out of existence?

@LenHazell53 Thinking only revitalizes the concept. What we need to do is to ignore the concept completely.

@rcandlish
When did "ignore it and it will go away" ever work?

God(s) may not exist, but religion definitely does and in the past every-time it has gained the upper hand, it has proven tyrannical, so yes god does need, thought, reason opposition, logical and counter argument applied to the purpose of negating it as, when and wherever possible.

@LenHazell53 This whole conversation that I am eavesdropping on seems like it could be a conversation between Catesby and Percy in 1604. Marvellous!

@Geoffrey51 I'm not opposed to the idea of blowing up anyone claiming the divine right of a king.

@Geoffrey51
Okay, my hands are up don't shoot

@LenHazell53 it's okay your good to go. Give me the match I'll do it it myself. Divine Right of Kings indeed! Mark my words, someone's going to lose their head over thiat one day!

I think ridicule is disrespectful and is no help in recruiting bystanders . The hard slog of rationality, integrity and logic is all we have.

@Mcflewster I would agree that it is important to remain respectful. But there is nothing wrong in lampooning absurd ideas, and weak argument. It all depends on the attitude of the criticism.

@Mcflewster the point of ridicule is to be disrespectful ? it is used to great effect by comedians especially, but equally well by general members of the public to point out the absurdity of some of our deep-held beliefs. Humour that makes us think as well as laugh is the best kind of humour ?

@SimonCyrene Yes comedians are very useful in pointing things out but if they are actually disrespectful they are taken off air. It is fortunate that the UK has set up so many areas of "infotainment" e.g HIGNFY where one can say things which are harsh, often exaggerated but never actually tip over into disrespect because the style has been set to tease not accuse.

@Mcflewster the very programme you mention ridicules politicians and public figures mercilessly. Spitting Image which ran for years portrayed the president of America (Reagan) as putting his brain in a jar overnight. Not ridicule? Not disrespectful? Comedians treatment of Trumpf (sic) not ridicule? Not disrespectful? You started with a weak argument, and proceeded to weaken it further off your own accord. ?

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Thinking god out of other peoples heads is going to be the tricky part. How do we go about that?

Education

@LenHazell53 Do we know if this has worked anywhere?

@LenHazell53I only ask this question, Len because in spite of the efforts of the Soviet Union to eradicate religion, it clung on tenaciously and last I heard it is reviving again.

@Paul_Clamberer
All the soviets did by trying to eradicate religion was draw attention to it as "forbidden fruit" you tell people no you can't and they will immediately ask why not? What are hiding?

When I say education I mean exactly that, you first teach children to think critically, you teach the scientific method, you teach historical facts, teach inductive reason and logic and then you teach them to apply it to the politics religion etc of there own time and of times past.

With that grounding, people will look at the crusades and ask, were they mad?
They will look at the inquisition and find it abominable that people were willing to torture in the name of god and equally that people were willing to die for their gods. and will finally conclude they were all victims of money hungry priests, rabbis and imams.

Fundamentally religion is an insult to reason all that is needed is provide the tools and foundations and let human nature take its course.

We have to promote the many alternatives to religion that exist today and just need spreading

Why not try stopping even talking about God ever again?

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