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So after reading some comments on an FB post, I became very curious. I hope to keep this post relatively mature as it is of a personal nature. I have a few different questions/comments to present...

  1. As someone who plans to adopt and potentially have her own, something I never realized I may need to consider is if I'll have a son circumcised. What is your opinion and why? Please don't be too graphic, I am a LADY?. Parents, I'm most interested in hearing how you made your decisions with your own sons.

  2. Do you think that majority of those that have been circumcised was due to religious reasons or just the assumed norm?

  3. I hate when women push their beliefs on this topic, while also ask men to stay out of decision-making when it comes to women's reproductive rights. Have your opinion, sure. Please don't ever argue against a Male on this topic though. Agree? Disagree?

Kassandra 6 June 29
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96 comments (51 - 75)

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2

I thought about getting myself circumcised but then reseached about this issue on google and then came to know it is best kept as it is. As getting circumcision decreases feeling during sex, something I would not (or any other male) want at all.

I'm not so sure. I've never felt short-changed on enjoyment of sex, and in fact, if I'd found it even more pleasurable I'm not sure that it would have been more satisfying for my partner.

@Gareth ignorance is bliss ... Or cognitive dissonance?

2

I can only tell you that I'm glad I was.

Why are you "glad"? I'd love to hear your reasons.

@GoldenDoll

@Secretguy while I love Seinfeld, I don’t agree with body shaming

@Marcie1974 Wow. Sense of humor much?

@Secretguy I know how sensitive most guys are and size and the way their penis looks. The look of revolt on her face is a bit much.

4

In reply I ask you to read the following blog written by a young American woman. Then answer the following questions -
• Do you want to deprive your son of knowing full sexual pleasure?
• Do you have the right to expose your son to the chance of death as a result of the unneccessary procedure (about 2 in 6000 die from complications).
• If your son survives the operation do you have the right to subject him to permanent deformity and the possibility of permanent unnatural curvature of the penis, loss of penis, loss of skin for the length of it, damage to the urethra, permanent psychological damage ...
• Do you have the right to permanently cripple your son without having his informed adult consent? He is at his most vulnerable and most in need of parental protection. Will you deny him the trust and protection?
• Do you have the right to deny your son the health benefits only obtained from having a foreskin? It is now believed that this includes protection from HIV/ AIDS.
Please read:
[madsciencewriter.blogspot.co.id]

Frayed Bear, this is an opinion piece, not evidence-based.

@crazycurlz i literally have the evidence to back this up in my hands !!

@crazycurlz What evidence do you want? A dick pic?

@Simon1 lol.Well said Simon.

@crazycurlz did you read the researched link that I gave? There is no opinion in a question. You can verify the evidence by using google to read something other than religious dogma but perhaps cognitive dissonance prevents you?

6

Really the only reason for circumcision is cosmetic. My son is not. I just had to teach him how to make sure it is clean. The doctor advised me to make sure the head pops out when he was younger. Nature put the foreskin there to protect the head of the penis why muck with.

azzow2 Level 9 June 29, 2018
2

Here is what I would recommend. Since this is a health issue, yourself how it is handled in Western Europe? They live longer, happier lives and spend half of what we do on health care costs. (Answer: they don't promote it).

6

I think having an elective surgery to mutilate the genitals of baby boy's is wrong. There is no medical benefit to the surgery, only risks. I would also say that having an opinion on this topic is different than having an opinion on the reproductive rights of women because at this point the baby is already here and as a care giver, all opinions of the people who will be caring for this baby matter.

Mea Level 7 June 29, 2018

Awesome opinion on the reproductive rights. First time I heard this opinion and I see your point. Thank you.

On second thought, this is irreversible if we had circumcision done. So we are taking the right away from the baby boy who will grow up to be a Male. So while I agree that the two are very different and the care taker will ultimately have to make a decision one way or another. I guess my main concern are women who are not having to make that decision and decide to force their opinions on males.

@Kassandra, I'm all for bodily autonomy and I would say that it would be best to leave baby boys uncircumcised for that reason alone. If he wants to have it done later he can, if it is done now, his foreskin will never grow back.

1

One way of approaching your question is to go with established medical science. Pubmed.org is the single recognized data base for all juried medical research.
Simply enter circumsision

6

I vote no. Unless there's a medical reason for doing so, circumcision is pointless.

1
3

(My comments which follow below pertain to religious circumcision.)

Is the boy not a person in their own right?

Is their body theirs and not yours?

Circumcision should be the choice of the person who has it. No one else's. *

Circumcision imposed on someone is physical assault. *

And finally... Why are someone else's genitals your business? To force religious circumcision on a boy is to push your beliefs in an irreversible way.

  • unless there is a medical reason.
6

first congrats @Kassandra this post is huge and trending! (although I think this argument was done a month or so ago and the same peeps on the same side). Here's my 2 cents:

  • every medical procedure is risky (infection) so advisable only if medically required
  • Men have lived with a prepuce (foreskin) for hundreds of thousands of years without ill effect otherwise we would have evolve away from having one.
  • I like my turtleneck... you can make a puppet show out of it. (ok 3 cents now)
Lukian Level 8 June 29, 2018

@Storybook Thanks I needed someone to laugh at my peni$... wink.

Puppet show? That’s freaking hilarious

Unfortunately I did not see the previous post, but I'm glad more people are actually questioning it and spreading their personal experiences.

Thanks for your 3 cents. Lol

Is your puppet one eyed or what?
Someone not long ago photoshopped one of our wannabe prime ministers to replace his crown and forehead with a penis. It was very well done, you couldn't see the seam but unfortunately he has not taken the hint and quit politics.

@FrayedBear google puppetery of the peni$. They are an act. You can find them in YouTube.

4

My son wasn't circumcised and unfortunately falls into the category of those who should have been. He has the dreaded tight foreskin so at age six he was at the urologist and we tried the steroid creams and as an adult he has had a tear to the frenulum, minor surgery for that and still sometimes experiences discomfort on the job so to speak. He would have been far better off without the bloody thing (foreskin not anything else).

Since my son is far more open on these matters than most men, it does make me wonder whether there is actually a vast underreporting of problems relating to the retention of the foreskin. Men are very protective of their genitalia and the last thing most of them are going to do is admit there is a problem in that department.

Just food for thought.

Kimba Level 7 June 29, 2018

But god the creator of the entire universe and perfect in every way had a little problem when it came to foreskins. Just couldn't quite get that right... oh and he needs our cash for the church roof too.

@Nardi Well if it was good enough for Jesus ....Luckily you can still go and see Jesus's foreskin, in many different places - I think there are over 20 Holy Prepuces which are claimed to be "the one". Fascinating.

@Nardi what bad dope have you been smoking?

A problem can arise from infection with thrush. There is now a one tablet solution that frequently overcomes the problem of foreskin tightening and loss of elasticity resulting in it trying to garrotte the head.

@FrayedBear lol just quoting hitchens on the subject sorry.

@Nardi I reckon 3 hours in the sin bin for that one! ... "agnostics don't have sin bins." "Oh spewy, go and mumble in the corner then" .... curmudgeonly shiny goes off grumbling stage right.

7

Unless there is a medical necessity - there is no good reason to do this - if the male will have access to soap and water and learns general good hygiene. (Retracting the foreskin to wash).

This is done to male infants without any anesthesia.
Having part of the body removed for non-medical reasons doesn't make sense to me.

My sisters and I discussed this when my first nephew was born.
With the knowledge we had over 36 years ago - we could see it had been mostly a choice to "look like Dad". Or to follow a religious practice.

That has changed markedly - and we're swinging towards men not being circumcised now. (In the US). So even that old chestnut is no longer true.

Also if you wait for the child to make his own choice - he will get anesthesia. (as an adult).

It's completely barbaric and perverted.

The foreskin is attached until a certain maturity and therefore should not be retracted as it causes damage.

10

I'm not a parent yet but I'd not recommend cutting of my little boys penis. That is a decision I'll leave to him.

I'm from Africa (Kenya) and most circumcision there is done as a rite of passage to adulthood. Most cultures have ceremonies were they perform the act on boys.

I personally see it as a form of genital mutilation. It's a common practice but that doesn't mean it's not male mutilation. We label female mutilation as inhumane and forget the boy child also gets maimed.

I agree. There's a huge double standard. It's also very perverted. Culture has no business interfering with people's genitals.

Yep, my Nigerian ex-husband had it done to our son, and his first child, a girl, had it done too.

@Storybook The son thing was ok - I was still crazy in love and thought the husband knew best. My son is now a strapping 6ft3in and none the worst for it I suppose - too late to worry about it now! But the stepdaughter's mutliation broke my heart, and I could never get over it. She died when she was 9 of sickle cell.

@GoldenDoll so sorry to hear of what your family has gone through.

1

I had my children at home and didn't have my son circumcised, considering it child abuse. There is no good reason to do this to an innocent newborn baby.

As for women's reproductive rights, if men could get pregnant and would take care of a child for 18 years while trying to work and keep up the housework, then he could have a say. Otherwise, no.

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1

1- Circumcision is actually male genital mutilation if you reframe this. It was performed by Victorians to reduce urges to masterbate as the foreskin has a LOT of nerve endings, it can lead to ease of contraction of several STIs and the only benefit is a short-term one of cleaning diapers. I’d suggest not circumcising, it comes with risks of deformation and harms their ability to enjoy their bodies to the fullest, plus most women can’t tell.
2- Assumed cultural norms, white male christians with roots to Victorian era purity model have no religious requirement whereas jewish males (any racial background) have spiritual reasons and a specific ritual— that one has led to a few babies contracting genital herpes.
3- Disagree. I do not argue with men about penis augmentation because it’s THEIR bodies, why should they argue my right to my reproductive organs in equal footing? Sure we can intellectually discuss the topic- IF they are read up, like intellectually the corpus will not evenly engorge on an augmented penis which means their erection will lean or be incomplete which can make intercoarse potentially painful but hey, if you have a micropenis (2 inches and smaller) you probably shouldn’t worry about the arch differentials since you’re stopping well before the “g spot” in corresponding vaginal sex if you’re hetero and coming up short for the prostate— about 4 inches gets you there, so for mutual pleasure it might be worth it. Still wouldn’t tell aguy with a micropenis to GET or NOT GET the surgery if I was dating such a guy, but I’d converse if they asked for my insight.

@CoastRiderBill bodily autonomy and discussion versus control of the dialog.

I don't understand what you disagree with if you don't argue with men...

@Kassandra the difference between argument to mean to debate or to come to force one’s opinions. While they can formulate their own opinions they don’t have a right over my body as I do not have a right over theirs, but as an intellectual conversation— it’s better to not bury your head in the sand.

@ScientistV okay, I can respect that opinion. Thanks!

Ping pong balls make an interesting addition when in a "storm" looking for a port! ?

@FrayedBear hey now, Pepsi cans and ping pong balls go together #TwisterMovieReferenceFTW

@ScientistV the #Hashtag isn't working. I googled the phrase and came up with pages and pages. It is a cold grey morning and I have 55 other alerts awaiting response so perhaps one will explain your cryptic reply.

@FrayedBear it was the 90s movie Twister. Cold grey mornings are easiest for scrolling comments.

@ScientistV Yes Google came up with the 1996 Twister but what was the significance of ping pong ball and P cans? Were they used to demonstrate the power of the twister's wind velocity? And now thinking on't how does this relate to penis augmentation? ?

@FrayedBear if you saw his truck you knew he’d considered the surgery.

@ScientistV I didn't but I it assume that it was about the size of a wheelbarrow and he was looking for reduction ... like women with over sized mammary glands? I had an acquaintance who seemingly cured hers by breast feeding 6 children over a fifteen year period, playing tennis and mainly living off 2 litres of wine consumed in one two hour sitting. She weighed about 8 stones.

17

I am 100% against infant/child circumcision, unless there's a specific medical reason that child needs it. The American Academy of since 1975 has started that "there is no absolute medical indication for routine circumcision of the newborn."

Once someone is an adult, they are welcome to do whatever they want to themselves, including circumcision for religious or cosmetic reasons. But, absent a specific medical reason, parents should not have part of their child cut off.

If you have any doubt, remember that it's irreversible. If you don't circumcise, your son can always choose circumcision as an adult. But if you do circumcise, your son can't get his foreskin back.

cmadler Level 7 June 29, 2018

That
I
V

It’s equivalent to female genital mutilation— we KNOW that’s barbaric and done to suppress sexual enjoyment, mostly done for purity/religious purposes... if you think full stop FGM is wrong, why is MGM not? They both are. I originally didn’t think much of it until I read up on it from a friend being diehard against it.

@ScientistV Oh come on - it's not equivalent to FGM! If it was, the whole penis would have to be cut off......

@GoldenDoll incorrect, FGM is region specific, from removal of the clitoris, the removal of the labia,or stitching the labia majora closed after removal of the clitoris, and as there are mishaps, there are botched MGM in which the head of the penis is entirely removed or even more of the penis, either way— if you think removing parts of a little girl’s sex organs is wrong you SHOULD feel the same about doing that to a little boy.

@ScientistV well of course I feel the same about little boys. And I know all about the different forms of FGM thanks, first hand. My stepdaughter was an FGM victim.

@GoldenDoll then how do you find it NOT parallel?

For bodily purity and religious ritual you take your kid and get this thing done... in some cases in highly unhygienic ways that can cause long term damage, in other areas by “experts” who can do worse by slipping— or is your point legality since in the US it’s legal to do it to boys but not girls? I’d give you THAT half-point but we WERE discussing the ethics thereof not legality.

@ScientistV Because full FGM includes cutting off the clitoris, which is equivalent to cutting off the WHOLE PENIS. Or do they do this to boys as well for 'bodily purity or religious ritual'? Maybe that's one I don't know about. And you know exactly where you can shove your half point.

@GoldenDoll “the entire clitoris” is actually inaccurate, because medical doctors barely grasp the full shape of it. They cut off the equivalent of the HEAD of the penis, but an uneducated layperson like yourself even WHEN you know a person who had it done can’t figure it out. You’re a pretentious cunt, lady.

@ScientistV lol. I have had discussion with this member before. I did not use personal epithets against her but had her block me as I was obviously disturbing her cognitive dissonance. Please pm me if she does the same to you and blocks you. My suspicion is that it is a guilt driven thing that results in many arguing against known fact in order to justify their past behaviour. I have found it interesting that the Australian psychologists have not commented on my hypothesis that much violence against women and elder abuse results from the damage of being betrayed when most vulnerable by the supposed "saints" in our lives our mothers authorising or failing to protect against mutilation.

@GoldenDoll FGM is not equivalent to cutting off the entire penis; it is, however, quite close to circimcision. See, circumcision was pushed by conservative individuals to lower the rates of teen pregnancy and fornication in general. When you remove the foreskin you greatly reduce the sensitivity of the penis. These same people intended to have the same done to the female clitoris, but they pushed this during the women’s rights movement, and as women were already in a battle to get many other rights, they managed to avoid instituting what was referred to as “female circumcision”

Your facts are all wrong. FGM has been around for thousands of years. The world does not revolve around America. Go educate yourself.

@GoldenDoll with all due respect “Doll” your level of closed mindedness and ignorance doesn’t belong on this site.

0

Consider this.

3

Unless you have a religious conviction to do so it would probably be worth discussing with a health practioner, preferably GP. Not being Jewish I have no insight into the benefits but I believe it was part of the Mosaic Law and therefore over 3,000 years old. I would hope we have moved forward from the required practices of the Bronze Age.

I would hope than on a site like this we wouldn't have to deal with thousands of years of religious backwardness and mumbo-jumbo, but that's apparently not always the case.

2

I would say if your are going to do that, do it when the child is born. I am, and basically thats all i know, i don't know the other side, and ive always been fine with it, and i don't beileve at all the procedure hurts anything, ive never had any problems down there. ,hope this was helpful

Not.

@GoldenDoll if you have something to add besides Not ,please say so lols

7

Mine was done on religious grounds when i was about 4 or 5. I had a paracetamol then went under the knife. It was the worst experience of my life and as such my boys have been protected from it. Now they're adults they can do what they like but i suspect circumcision is not on their list of things to have done.

Nardi Level 7 June 29, 2018

@CoastRiderBill My ex-husband had our son circumcised - the baby got a shot of brandy, nothing else.

@CoastRiderBill And that was at the British High Commission Hospital in New Delhi - I remember they got an "expert" in to do it and the UK GP was all set up with his camera to take photos - bet my son would like to see those now!

@CoastRiderBill, @Storybook They said it was safer than an anaesthetic, which is probably true. He cried a lot.

@Storybook Yep.

15

I feel quit strongly about this one,.... for numerous reasons, but firstly I want to say that rather like evolution & whether or not the earth is flat,.... science has spoken firmly on this one. The research has been done, the evidence is in and it is unambiguously nonsense. It is nonsense that has known & quantifiable risks and side affects attributed to it. So for that reason alone, don’t do it.

But for me, this is the biggie. It’s not your body, so the rights that you have over your son’s body are not infinite. You’re probably unlikely to tattoo your baby, or pierce it’s belly button, because you know that in doing so you infringe your child’s right to choose when it’s old enough. Same with circumcision,..... only far more so, because many ‘growdups’ DO actually choose to get a tattoo,.... whereas I’m prepared to bet that the number of 25 year olds feeling the urge to pay someone to scalpel off their foreskin is,..... small!!

Male genital mutilation (let’s call it what it is), is nothing more than a religious, tribal throwback, and I dissagree with several of the other well informed commentors, in that this is not in fact ‘your choice’. It is your son’s choice when he is old enough to do so.

Thank you for this comment

@Kassandra you’re very welcome. Thanks for the opportunity to rant! 🙂 x

3

It doesn't matter if you're male or female. Opinions are a good thing. But educate yourself. Many posters mistakenly compare female genital mutilation with circumcision. In the US, your son's foreskin would be removed under sterile conditions. It does not diminish sensations during intercourse, it does not alter the function of the male sex organs or even the urinary system, as that is also the same region. Its a practice that likely developed for hygienic purposes because folds in skin are breeding grounds for bacteria and other skin breakdown and now many older/ancient cultures continue the practice. We're seeing circumcision put into practice routinely now in Africa for prevention. Performed properly it is a safe, medical procedure (totally unlike the conditions/reasons connected to female genital mutilation which is abuse that can lead to loss of sensation, loss of function, loss of life and is demoralizing). If you adopt an older child, there's no reason to have the procedure done unless he's prone to infection or you belong to a culture in which it is routinely performed. It is, after all surgery. If you adopt an infant and you are living in the US, chances of infection are probably greatly reduced. You would want to teach him to clean himself properly either way and I would consult your medical provider so they can weigh in on its efficacy.
I admire your decision to adopt.

It does damage the nerve endings it can lead to other problems whilst urinating. The myth about being be for hygiene is exactly that a myth . And last of all you have not got a penis I have I have first hand experience you are wrong !!!!

@Simon1 Excellent comment. There are so many commentators who think they are experts but who have, it seems, read lots but led very little lives.

@Simon1 this is such a moronic response. I don't think there's much to respond to.

@crazycurlz and there we have it straight to personal attacks as you so obviously are wrong !!!

@Simon1 when you say things like 'it does' what is your proof? Also, when your comment ends with 'you have not got a penis'...what in the hell do you call that? I take that as a personal attack. I'm not wrong. I know how to research.

And the evidence for your beliefs. You may as well argue the existance of god!

@Simon1 I rememeber researching this back in 1996 here in Australia. The only data that I could obtain at the time was that 2 in 6000 male circumcisions resulted in death - usually complications like uncontrollable bleeding, infections leading to death. Doctors in the UK sometime before 2000 I think helped produce a film which revealed not only the deformities arising (other than loss of foreskin) but the remarkable numbers. Needless to say in many cases the psychological damage was usually lifelong.
@curlylocks may claim nothing untoward happens, the last time that I looked about ten years ago mortality rates from hospitalisation in US hospitals had not decreased.

@Simon1, @crazycurlz I think that anyone who claims to know how the other gender person experiences physical stimulus is like the woman who knows how a man thinks by looking at his eyes. The eye tells nothing other than which ancestors genes prevailed to colour the iris and if jaundice or other illness is present.

6

This is not something I would inflict on an infant. It is mutilation plain and simple. Like religion it should be undertaken voluntarily when one is an adult. Parents do not have the right to disfigure their children male or female any more than indoctrinate them with religion.

1

Well, I have daughters.. didn't have to worry about that at all ?

Well.............

@GoldenDoll ??

Did you get her ears pierced as a baby?

@Kassandra why?

@IamNobody why not? Is that a private matter? If you're not interested in having a discussion, that's fine. I just ask that you don't waste my time by commenting as this isn't FB and I am actually interested in the majority of the 93 comments on this post. TIA

@Kassandra the topic of discussion is circumcision. What does my daughters ears got to do with it? Anyhow, I can tell you this much.... At least what I remember when I used to change their dipers...none of them had a penis.

@IamNobody Did you never consider having their budding breasts cut off to ensure that they didn't get breast cancer?

@FrayedBear now that's really cute... Please allow me to make your day, I am laughing so hard that my belly aches !!!

@IamNobody I hope that your daughters never have breast cancer and so you will not have to rue the day.

@FrayedBear your logic is not very sound and that's not my problem. How do you digress from circumcision to ear piercing to mutilation of baby girls nipples to breast cancer and try to ping it all on me??? Sorry dude, try to find another victim somewhere else....

@IamNobody neither is any argument advocating circumcision - male or female.

@FrayedBear keep on going, I am done with you

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