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31 5

The Dems have real trouble going into 2020. Nobody appears to have one of the critical ingredients for success - charisma.

Beto O'Roarke has charisma and is gaining name recognition, but has not entered the race. The others are not personality standouts, even if I think they are qualified.

To beat Trump who has ample amounts of negative charisma that appeal to his deplotables, a candidate must arise who has standout charisma and appeal. Presidential races are like homecoming royalty or student council president, an extremely expensive popularity contest.

t1nick 8 Feb 24

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7

Sanders doesn't need charisma, the policies he supports has enough charisma to keep him covered.

Im not sure I agree Mortal. I like Sanders, and he's the initiatir if the new movement, but there is a real desire for youth and new blood. Bernie hilds his own vey well, but is his appeal still strong enough?

@t1nick You know it's not like Bernie will be there alone. He can have a much younger person as a deputy.

@t1nick AOC seems to like him and an awful lot of people like AOC until they listen closely to what she's saying and then they love her. It has all the makings for a mythical political upheaval that wakes up the body politic for the first time in decades since conservatives put all that effort into lulling them to sleep. The next few years will be fascinating, something big is happening, something reasonable people have been hoping for the last few decades.

@Mortal. Agreed in principle. It should be an interesting ride.

I'm still feeling the Bern. We will see if he still rouses the wild support he did three or four years ago; he crossed generational lines very well then, I'm betting he still does.

6

The last three Dems to win the Presidency came out of nowhere. There is a long way to go. Americans may want less personality and more substance this time. Look at our history and the way we tend to snap back the other way from what we had.

What?
Obama was the obvious choice from the 2004 keynote convention speech.
Bill Clinton was a Governor and razor focused from teen years
And you are also talking about James Carter?
Yeah Gerald Ford just wanted out.

He was shot at twice and was not good at stairs.

Yes, less art and more matter, as Shakespeare might say. Another rousing waffling orator like Clinton or Obama would be a huge mistake. That's why Sanders cut through, despite his grumpy and grizzled appearance. He said exactly what he would do, and who would take the hit, and people knew it. They didn't want style or charisma, they wanted action, policies and goals. They still do. If the Dems pose another speech maker with no substance, they'll deserve to lose.

@BufftonBeotch Of course a black man was the obvious choice in these United States! HAHAHA! Neither Carter, Clinton, or Obama were power brokers or even close to being favorites in the beginning of their races. Being a Governor like Carter and Clinton does not make one well known. They came out of nowhere. How many Governors can you name right now?

@David1955 To say that Obama and Clinton did not have substance is not an accurate statement.The only two Presidents in my lifetime who had little or no substance were Bush Jr. and Trump.

@Sticks48 not substance as progressive politicians they didn't. Personally, I think Clinton sold out to the right after the mid terms in 1994 on all policies. Obama is a good and decent man, but rousing speeches aside, there's little of his Presidency that didn't ultimately serve the interests of Capital, and people knew it.

@David1955
McConnell was determined, and stated such. He would stop Obama from doing anything. Boehner would have worked with Obama, but the Freedom Caucus would let him do nothing. That is the history of the thing. If you don't know by now, if you go to far left or right, the American people get scared. Most Americans are centrists leaning left on some issues and right on others. I am a liberal, so I say this with no joy. Maybe it will be different in 2020. I hope so.

@Sticks48 amen to that!

4

Bernie only has enough charisma to pack stadiums and arenas with tens of thousands of people. That should be enough.

Except the fact that the DNC loves to use their crooked super delegate system to screw him over.

4

Trump has the charisma of tooth decay -- there's nothing good about it but you can't ignore it when it's there and it does a lot of damage. The voting public is, on the whole, dumb. They will vote for the one who they would want to have a beer with or who was the host of a popular game show. They make crucial decisions based on thoughts no more incisive than "My ass itches."

People like Bernie and Elizabeth Warren may not be charismatic or have a lot of personal magnetism but they have integrity and the right ideas. I'll vote for that over charisma every time.

4

Yeah well we had someone that could’ve beaten him in 2016 and if allowed will surely beat him in 2020.

Because even though charisma is appealing it’s still only superficial where as having character and substance ( two things that aren’t but should be valued above all ) are the keys to being an actual leader.

I clicked like in spite of your mistaken first paragraph. I strongly agree about the need for a candidate with character and substance.

@jerry99 Thank you Jerry now I’m feeling sooo nothing different about myself.?

The vampire was unlikely to strike in 2016 but after getting elected, it drank our blood and it has gotten stronger. It will be hard to kill it in 2020. The tragedy of 2016 happened to us because the vampire-slayer lady who chose... turned out to be a false hero.

@Tiramisu Interesting way of putting that but and I do mean BUT do not over estimate “ the vampire “
Because if it bleeds it can die and he’s definitely wounded.

So just as long we don’t send in another false slayer then he shall perish and go to a state prison for tax fraud. ?

I think Bernie lost to much respect for kissing the DNC ring to win in 2020. Had he fought them it would have proved he is not to weak and timid but I can't see him against other world leaders if he gives up that easy.

@jorj Not only that, but Bernie, and even Elizabeth Warren have been towing the line on Venezuela. It's really disappointing.

@Piece2YourPuzzle Tulsi is all that is left and she will get the same as Bernie got in 2016.

@jorj Do you watch American football?

I ask this because whenever a team kicks off the ball and the other team receives it the returner has the option to run with it and most likely get tackled or fumble the ball.

Or he can just take a knee and the team can start at the 20yd line. Well in the 2016 even though he scored some points the officials had already decided via superdelegates that he wouldn’t get the nomination.

So he took a knee and since he had received money from the Democratic Party and he was also put in the position to encourage people to vote so that trump wouldn’t win. Which is why he’s played his part for the party.

But why isn’t he running as an independent this time? Well how many debates did you see Gary Johnson and Jill Stein in?
The system is still rigged against independent candidates at the position for president.

And besides has he not influenced the Democratic Party in their policy making?
Oh and let’s not forget the old saying that if you can’t beat them then join them and take over.?

@48thRonin evidence shows he was cheated and supporters money was stolen and given to Clinton and he keeps his mouth shut. That is a weak coward and don't deserve my vote.

@Piece2YourPuzzle Actually that whole thing has been twisted by everyone. Bernie believes that the people of Venezuela are need of humanitarian aid but not that we should replace Maduro as their leader.

He’s said repeatedly that it’s up to the people of Venezuela to decide that and to carry it out if that’s their choice. And here’s a recent interview involving a Democratic Politician stating how wrong Bernie is for that statement.

[freebeacon.com]

@jorj Ok then who’s the one then?? Because I haven’t seen one that hasn’t either supported a trump policy or given in to pacs and other money sources.

And all money contributed to a party politician’s bid for office has to be used and if you fail to be either nominated or elected your excess contributions go to the party.
Just like the republicans that lost to trump in their primaries their left overs went into trumps campaign

I’m just saying that if he didn’t then the headlines would be that he fucking stole from us.
It’s simply live to fight another day and if he’d gone rouge and tried to take the election on his own and failed he would fucking done.

Ie; Every independent candidate ever...EVER.

I agree character and intelligence counts, but the electorate doesn't agree unfortunately.

@t1nick Well that’s something that “ WE “ as voters and tax givers need to change.

@48thRonin Agreed

@48thRonin at this time there really isn't one to beat Trump. The left is divided way too much. Half want actual liberal policy and half just want nice speeches with Republican policy so they are screwed. They have lost everything over the last decade because of it and they refuse to self reflect and admit to their faults. They just voter shame and blame it everyone but their self and never offer a populist agenda. Trump won by offering more populist left positions that Hillary and the lefties just can't wrap their head around that.

@48thRonin But the idea that Venezuela isn't getting aid is false. They are getting aid, but just not accepting US/Colombian aid etc. I wouldn't accept U.S. or their allies aid either being that they want to overthrow them. Bernie knows this. Maybe he is just going along to get along, but I view that as sort of weak too. I'm not sure if it means that he's establishment or not, but it doesn't look good either way.

@Piece2YourPuzzle Actually I’ve seen a ton of videos where the Venezuelans themselves are trying to ramp up the production of their own goods.
But they’re also having a hard time with their exports.

Either way the only people who knows what’s actually going on down there are the Venezuelan people. Everyone else is receiving second hand knowledge at best.

And I honestly don’t believe that any of our politicians should be commenting on anything until they can go in and see for themselves and the current administration isn’t going to allow that.

Maduro and his country has oil, they’ve declared themselves as being socialist and they’ve ceased to accept U S currency for their goods.

And the last three times that happened we had the leaders killed and they’re countries destroyed as in the case of both Iraq and Libya.
And since Syria has committed two of the three we attempted to do the same with them.

But Bernie is doing a town hall tonight and I’m 100% that Venezuela will be brought up so let’s all see shall we.

@jorj Well let me remind you that combined trump and Hillary had less than one half of the eligible voters from that election.

So that means there’s a lot of non party voters to swing as well as those who either voted for an independent or didn’t vote because of Bernie not being on the ballot in their states.

It’s February so let’s see who and what is in play come December before we declare a loss shall we.

@Piece2YourPuzzle US aid always includes guns to arm both sides of the war as proven by our history. Smart move on the part of Venezuela.

@48thRonin I've been pretty accurate with my predictions, including Trump, so I'll stick to this one all the way. Trump is not that bad of a president compared to others. The media has people confused because of their hate for Trump but the economy is stronger than Obama and his approval rating hangs around the average of most others so a 2nd terms looking pretty easy to win, esp since dems are so divided and attack each other with voter shaming and everything in between. The left is just to ignorant and arrogant to figure it out. I say this being a liberal but at the same time I'm a realist.

@jorj I agree with most of what you said but the economy thing damn near imploded with his tariff war, but was him attempting to copy what he believed Reagan did with Japan.

The difference was that we were actually competing with Japan in a sense of our products vs theirs, but China is actually producing the majority of our products so all he did was fuck over the consumers from here.

His actions against Mexico was a bit too aggressive because I’m not picking lettuce! Are you picking lettuce? Exactly he could’ve established a better program for migrant workers and gone from there.

And other than that other than this shit with Venezuela he’s tried to get us out of foreign conflicts where as Hillary would have us neck deep in all of Asia right now.

But like I said it’s still February and he might not even be the president come the end of the year and all any of us can do is watch and intervene whenever it’s feasible.

@48thRonin This is just my opinion, which doesn't count for much in the grand scheme of things. I do have to agree with you on most points...we have a 2 party system. So when a so-called , independent otherwise jumps into the race, history has proven they will lose and take votes away Dems more often than not. We do have a 2 party system for a reason. Pick a side and stick with it. Change your chosen party dogma to your liking, as much as possible. Take Bernie, he ran as a Dem (he knows history), he has successfully changed Democrat policy to be more left-leaning. I am good with that. I do like Bernie but I don't love him...personally, and I may get crucified for saying this, but I think he is too old and maybe he should support and advise someone a teeny tiny bit younger.

@Maximai Actually there’s only been two presidential elections that have been effected by an independent candidate at least in the past 50 or so years.

First was bush sr. ( republican) Losing in 1992 because of Ross Perot and Al Gore ( Democrat ) losing in 2000 because of Nader and some controversy and maybe some corruption in Florida.

But anyway how will we know if it will work or not if we have a system that has self promoted and barricaded itself against any other parties from taking root.

And to be very honest with you the biggest problem with that is the party attempts to determine what the people will get based upon the ideologies of its core leaders and forgoes the needs and wishes of the people in order to achieve them.

And before 2016 the majority of representatives from both parties were taking money from the same people and their identities were beginning to mesh.
Which didn’t go unnoticed by the majority of voters in this country. Which is why the radicalized versions of both parties have risen to the levels for they’re at now.

People want an active government and one who’s message better be about the people and not the candidate nor the party ie; I’m with her.
Seriously it was so self centered that it made Kanye and the Kardashian’s jealous.

But before I go. Bernie being too old? I will admit maybe but I don’t hear people saying that about Biden, Feinstein, or Pelosi.
And the rest of the field so far needs to find some damn consistency in their game because right now some say progressive but their voting record and financial supporters say the opposite.

I would’ve loved for Bernie to have won it last time and have had Tulsi as his VP because she’s the closest in being consistent with his platform and just like him right now she is fighting against the war hawks that both the democrats and republicans have become.

3

Too many Dems are waiting for another anointed leader like Kennedy or Obama. O'Roarke is good and is gaining name recognition, but is not "groomed" enough in foreign policy to meet the criteria we need to set for the next president. We certainly do not need another popularist candidate with little to no government experience to move into the White House. Maybe O'Roarke as a VP candidate to round out a ticket. Remember that Kennedy won the 1960 election by a proverbial whisker in popular votes. Until we have a 28th Amendment repealing the Electorial College, we need to focus on those votes as well as the popular vote.

I thought Beto was running for Cornyn's seat?

@GinaMaria There has been talk for months that Beto will declare his bid for the presidency sometime this month. He is on a speaking tour now and has told numerous news outlets that he is evaluating his position. If he decides not the run for president, then I can see him running for John Cornyn's seat in the Senate.

3

It is early...most people who have stepped forward have not shown their true colors, Bernie was already known, so he is an exception!

3

We still have time.

Agree, but we better start acting and planning now. the other side is already organized.

@t1nick We seem to always have that problem because we do not have a strong leader.

3

The key is to change the election from just being about charisma... you need somenin that job. But the system is broken right now

2

I am British so don't have a vote but Bernie would get mine. I am not keen on Beto, he is a little too neoliberal for me. It would be nice if a woman got the nomination though. Really I am just hiding in US politics until UK stops being wanky

2

The problem is, charisma shouldn't be enough.

Besides, here is more on Beto:

[vox.com]

[bloomberg.com]

[theguardian.com]

[chicagotribune.com]

2

Beto couldn't even beat Cruz, Trump would destroy him.

jorj Level 8 Feb 25, 2019

Do you have any democrat in mind who can take on Trump successfully?

@Tiramisu at this time, nope. Sad but it's just true. The dem party is to divided because of identity politics. What the clintonites want will push progressives away and vice versa. Until the dems look in the mirror and get a solid platform they can get used to losing. The neolibs have to go or the progressives have to go with the green party. They aren't compatible any longer.

@jorj The dems and progressive are missing the very effective active ingredient or the fire or the glue that binds all together or that can fire them up to come out in streets and be active voters. It is called "Religion" and the instructions come out of churches.

We are logical, analytical, reasoning people who are secure in their beliefs. But anger, passion are not our drivers. These are much stronger emotions than logic and reason in politics and elections.

May be the time for just to be non-believers and being passive is over. The time to oppose and destroy the ills of religion must start?

@Tiramisu religion is part of it but not the biggest part IMO. Repubs support each other instead of turn on their own like lefties do.

2

Surely Trump is the bottom of the barrel as far as presidents go.

Correct. Here is the proof.

[nytimes.com]

I am quite confident trump will achieve his current rank, but reality is he has only served 2 years. He still has two years to go. Maybe he gets better- lol

Yes, but he has his deplorables fired up and they are showing up at the voting booth.

2

We need to get money out of politics. Corporate media comments on the “political race.”
It’s not a race, it’s not a fricking sports contest, it’s not a popularity contest. It shouldn’t be a revenue stream for corporate media.

It should a venue where candidates can share their policy views and we decide.
It shouldn’t take 24 months of campaigning and fundraising.

Ban all political contributions, limit campaigns to 2 weeks before primaries (all states hold primaries the same day for federal elections- with voting machines using open source software, and auditable paper ballots). News papers can run position papers and public tv/radio can carry debates focused on policy.

I agree. Unfortunately we are not there yet.

2

Maybe no charisma, but they have credibility. Compared to what the GOP will be offering.

godef Level 7 Feb 24, 2019

I agree with sibstance part. But substance doesn't always carry the day. Look what we have in there now.

2

It is Feb. 2019, a little less than a year from the first primaries and several months before any debates. Calm down. Seems to me, the firing squad is imagined by the chattering classes on TV.

1

I really hope it is not another Dukakis in 2020.

1

Charisma or not it is any, any, any Democrat.

The doc needs to stop running corporate owned candidates.

??????

1

Bernie and Biden might both be too old. IDK. The rest are just simply too many running. They mean well but I see nobody here to beat Trump. I wonder if DeBlasio of NY could do it? He could be a rich man coming out for the rights of the poor American.

1

I think joe Biden with any of the female candidates would be a fine ticket.

GAlex Level 4 Feb 25, 2019

Biden has little to offer. I will change my impression of him if you can list anything of an innovative nature he has sponsored, espoused, etc. He is but an insipid, sociable dullard. We need a firebrand like Bernie and/or Elizabeth Warren. All that Trump and Republicans have done needs to be un-done by the next president...Biden will only smile a lot and take frequent naps.

Biden is the extension of Obama and Clinton and will lose the swing states IMO.

1

Beto is a loser. He lost his race. Besides, the blue states don't know who he is.

Bernie has national recognition. He and Tulsi Gabbard would make a good team, with Andrew Yang as labor secretary.

1

I think journalist Mark Shields said it right. When your Democrats create an execution quad, the first thing they do is form a circle.

And he's a Democratic supporter!

They're busy forming circles at the moment.

Odd system you have. For months contenders kick the crap out of each other, then when one is left standing they say, vote for us and our united party.

Is it at all surprising that a free market, capitalist society would figure out a way to monetize its public, political system?

@Haemish1 no, not surprising. I'm enough of a Marxist to know that the political structure, and all with it, reflects the underlining economic system, with it class and power structure.

@David1955
I’m not to knowledgeable about Marx, but didn’t he essentially boil everything down to class struggle?

@Haemish1 he saw class struggle as the inevitable result of contradictions in the socio economic system, but I was referring to his analysis that politics and culture and the rest are part of the superstructure that reflects the underlying economic system. Essentially and crudely put, economics drives the dynamic of social and political and other change. Not the other way round.

0

No matter who they pick Trump will clean their plate. Hell the democrats are becoming very radical!

If he's not in jail forst. Hahahahaha

0

BERNIE! Period.

0

I don't know about that but certainly it will be entertaining prime time quality type of TV ??

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