Agnostic.com

38 39

I had a trully upsetting and shocking experience today. I just feel so angry about it. I have two students of afro-carribean descent. I'll call them Julie and Tommy. Julie is from a rather well to do family from London. She speaks in very pronounced English and is a lovely, kind intelligent woman. Tommy (my fav...shush) is a 21 year second generation Nigerian from Manchester. They are fab students and I am proud of them both. They are just coming to the end of an 11 week placement where they have been racially abused every day. Called the N word, monkeys, asked if their hair was real or if people could touch their skin. Julie was even asked why she speaks so posh as N...... don't talk like that! I almost cried when she told me. She said for the first time in her life she wished she wasn't black! I am just trying to process this. Obviously they have been pulled off that placement and official processes will now take place but I having been trying to understand what I felt. I just realised it's guilt. I am so sorry. Julie said she had never experienced this in multi-ethnic London, I hate that anyone would think this is normal for the north of England. I feel terrible that my student got told to leave a country that she was born in. That people are so ignorant and so cruel. You know what, she even tried to defend them. I am so sorry for what we did...when I say we...I mean us, the white anglo saxon Europeans. We did this. Both these guys are heading for very high class degrees. Tommy particularly is very bright. I am disgusted that he was told the only things black lads can do is play football or box. (His ethics assignment got 93%!) I am white, ginger, professional and I suppose reasonably priveldged. However for the first time in my life I trully feel angry by how damaging racism is. I would appreciate your thoughts because all I want to do is cry.

Amisja 8 Mar 7
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

38 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

2

Stand by and support them as you have been doing . . well done

1

Jayne; I have no words of wisdom, only want to say that I feel your pain, and admire that you feel so strongly for your students and their predicament.

2

Why would someone who's the target of such ignorance apologize? I'd like to introduce you to Julie's negro mentality. Did you know that years ago, and perhaps today, Blacks from other countries are encouraged to forgive white supremacy and are told they are different from American Blacks? So you feel anger because it's close to you.. like having that one black friend who was called a N? This entire system should make you angry. what is wrong with white folks are they just on another planet? I guess that's part of the privelige they experience.. I sound angry and hateful, but that's just seeing and expressing a view form a place different than yours. one that's been discounted.

Woah

I don't have one black friend. I am academic advisor for 18 students 7 of whom are persons of colour. My sister is mixed as are her children. She has rarely encountered racism or indeed hostility. I am opposed to any form of hatred perpetuated on people for something they can't change. I tried to explain how upset and angry I was to be academic advisor to two students and the guilt I felt at being unable to protect them.

@Amisja some of my comment is not personal.. I think, not sure because I'm not white, that such response making it personal is a feeling of guilt. that's not necessary..the "apologizing" was a question directed at the girl and boy. the one black friend can be 18 or more out of 40 million..this hinges on ideas, feelings and stereotypes, along with paternalism wrapped up in white supremacy..complicated social views implanted by centuries of White and Black peoples forced and internalized status..

@Touched they are NOT kids. They are adults

@Touched You are clearly not reading my posts

@Amisja lol they are to me..lol

@Touched Well you are the same age as my aged P! I joined Antifa and laterly hope not hate in order to protest against racism, notions of white supremacy and antisemitism wherever I saw it. I was a young teen and very vocal in my condemmation of hate. I know who I am. I know I am not better than any other living creature and I will fight to my dying day to oppose hate. I live in a diverse multi-cultural part of England and we got this way on the backs of thousands of working people before me. In the 1860s the cotton workers of Blackburn suffered a cotton famine due directly to the Revolutionary war in USA. People in my home town chose to remain out of work (1000s starved) rather than work on the backs of enslaved persons. This was the first time I have directly encountered racism as I thought we'd all grown the fuck up. (Sorry for swearing Dad!). This is why it upset me. Not just because it exists but because I was niave to think it didn't.
[hopenothate.org.uk]

@Amisja OK like I said I'm not mad at ya.. at least you are trying to do something about the idiocy within our social systems

2

I'm very sorry that you had to deal with the ugliness of racism. You were not directly involved, so don't be so hard on yourself. You're not close minded like those other idiots.

Thank you xx

2

Do not feel guilty, racism is an irrational feeling, ignorant people and idiots are racist.

i'm sorry but not for me ...racism is a component of white supremacy and it's not a feeling at all, but a reality for us..

@Touched there are black racist too

@Williamcristiano do I have to explain this to someone who already knows that Blacks can be racist? Tell me, why do they have meanings for prejudice, bigotry, discrimination when none of those things are racist or institutionalized because you need POWER to enforce ideas of racism and what power do Blacks have of final appeal and independent decision that are made by and enforced by them?

Tell me have you ever read anything from Abdias do Nascimento?
examples"

Africans in Brazil: A Pan-African Perspective Nov 1, 1992
by Abdias do Nascimento , Elisa Larkin Nascimento

Brazil, Mixture or Massacre?: Essays in the Genocide of a Black People Oct 1, 1989
by Abdias do Nascimento , Elisa Larkin Nascimento

@Touched I did not read about it because I was born in 1992.
But anyway thank you very much for tell me about it, i am learning with you about my own country....

2

Your guilt is unearned. Don't be so hard on yourself. Your anger over the issue, however, is spot on. It is unbelievable that we are still dealing with this shit in the 21st century (and I would lump religion in with bold, bullying racism and all of the other backwards thinking that still affects human societies. =[

Thank you

1

so those high class degrees mean what, really? is that important in this context? White folks love to attack "hate" but are very reluctant to attack white supremacy.. even deny it exist..

High classification. 2:1 or 1st.

@Amisja care to explain your comment so I won't guess what you mean?

@Touched Sorry, I don't understand.

@Amisja high classification 2:1 oe 1st.. i don't understand the reference..

@Touched [thestudentroom.co.uk]

@Touched Both my BScs are 2:1s. One with a commendation, meaning it should have been a first but for unforeseen circumstances.

I have marched against white supremacists. They exist. They have no place in modern life. You are attacking the wrong ally.

@Amisja no you marched against racist, I don't think you've marched against white supremacy. Look I ain't mad at ya..the rabbit hole is deep for both of us.

@Touched hmmmm I think I did. Antifa are definitely opposed to white supremacy.

@Amisja i beg to differ..they are speaking about racism and equality, not white supremacy. different animals

@Touched wtf?

@Amisja racism is a part of WS.. like a Venn diagram that touches upon one another..white supremacy is further down the rabbit hole..most whites don't even consider what they are doing to support it because it's "normal" for them and makes sense to them..I'm not saying you support these things because I don't know you, however capitalism, religion, school curricula, police, seemingly benign laws, inheritances, ownership of land and resources, political structures..i could go on and on

0

I too used to not get it til I went to college n had a few close black friends/band mates, saw how police treat em, shop owners etc. the extra things they have to worry about in rural areas are unreal. The movie Green Book was supposed to be a historical account but people of color still damn near need one to find safe passage in the backwoods parts of our countries.

White people just can’t see/hear/believe how POCs still get treated until they spend enough time in proximity to see it for themselves. Telling educated people they don’t “sound black" is common here too and I can imagine little else that would be as insulting. If someone said that to me I would wind up on the news real fast. When even white people are getting tired of white peoples nonsense...

Try not to internalize your white guilt and beat yourself up but use it to recognize your privilege and use your privilege to speak up for those without. That’s all you can really do that I know of. Create those glares and awkward silences when people assume you’re as provincial as they are and tell an off color joke. Let other white people know how ignorant they sound and that we don’t do that anymore. Another useful tactic when someone starts going down a vaguely racist path of reasoning is to pretend not to know what they’re talking about and keep asking them to explain further until they get uncomfortable and stop. A wide eyed innocent look helps here if you can keep it up.

The type of person that you’re talking about may never be made uncomfortable though. I don’t know what to do about them other than reconsider our position on eugenics. if they’re still that openly racist in this age, I think I’m ok with sterilizing them.

"openly racist?????"

@Touched yeah, the type of person that would call people n words and monkeys to their face? What else do you call that? I realize that the entire system in the US and likely UK has a lot of baked in racism and that more “discreet” racism isn’t any better, but that’s the type we can do something about. The ignorant hicks that will just yell at someone are in a league of their own, dunno what to do about them other than take the warning labels off everything n let nature sort it out.

@Wurlitzer open racist aren't as much a threat than clandestine racism. if someone called me a N, i could put up defenses, but if they pass a law or side with an unjust law, that's a real problem.

0

Not surprised at all. Ignorance is everywhere. The kids will develop coping mechanisms to deal with non-blacks, and hopefully they will maintain a balance of seperating the low-lifes from normal people. Fact is, they will always remember those experiences and they should. As opposed to trying to shield them, which never works, a dialogue should be opened up on the subject. Another point, is I personally think it is a terrible idea to have black children in a completely all white/non-black environment. Kids can be terrible and the black/brown kids's scaring far outweighs any academic and intellectual stimulation. I raised 3 daughters and I have a daughter that was exposed to that level of ignorance for a brief time. She is a high achiever now, but she bitterly hates the teacher involved.

Now, I honestly believe things are worse now, than before and that is saying something.

They are adults 25 and 21

@Amisja they were from the Caribbean or an area there were majority black, then that explains a lot. An unfortunate part of life. They will adjust.

@BrentMBA2004 Nooooo they are English adult undergraduate students

@Amisja amazing they went that long without experiencing something like that. Too bad.

@BrentMBA2004 I know. Thats the upsetting thing

1

Crying is good as it will reset your brain chemistry, hopefully. The struggle is never over. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. I am observed bigotry. 1964 the schools were desegregated in the US which caused mass resistance by the euro descended. The next generations must step up for liberty or lose it. Liberty & justice for all. Not just for those who mirror our heritage. I am tired of seeing the resilience of bigotry in the human species. So I have become a recluse regarding human interaction. This site is about it as I can not abide the bigots that are reproducing out there.

0

I am trying to understand. In my life today I'm aware that I have done a complete 360 on many things and this issue is one of them. I have a few black friends. My ex of 12 years was Kenyan. My radar picks up on whites talking trash and some of them do it unawares. Some are flat out racists. I'm aware that Julie and Tommy can be as intelligent as anyone else and they should be allowed to be anyone they want to be. Yet, I find ignorant whites arguing on how they would feel if "god had made them a black man." It's insanity! I don't want to cry about this issue or feel any guilt. I do feel badly about it and I avoid anyone who is racist in any way whether they are aware of it or not.

I do understand this. I think that was kind of my point. I have a mixed race sister, my ex was Jewish American, my cousin's wife is Puerto Rican. I hate racism. I hate it intellectually but I never felt it before. When my nephew comes and stays with me, he is my little chap. He is who he is. His race never even occurred to me. This has been the first time I felt it. Like really felt angry at other people's ignorance before.

@Amisja I have a neighbor who lives in the apartment complex next door. I no longer talk to him much and the reason is that once he told me all about blacks. He has no idea that my ex was black but he says "look at all the money we have spent to educate them." People like this are too frigging stupid to even know they are racist and they are a waste of my time. They are a disgrace!

I know you realise that 360 degrees is a circle which would leave you right back where you began. Perhaps you meant a "180 degree" which would leave you totally opposite from where you began.

@Countrywoman Thank you for the heads up. I always was bad at math. 🙂

@DenoPenno awww we'll call you Spinning Deno 😉

Sorry to belabor a point but your comment of having done "a complete 360" literally means that you made a full circle and returned to the point of origin. Might I ask if you did not instead mean that you did a 180º - opposite of your original stand?!?

1

Very sorry to hear that, and more than sorry to hear that you are upset by it , as you naturally will be. But you must keep the stiff upper lip both for the sake of your students, and because if you allow it to ruin even a small part of your life, then you are letting the racist bullies win a small victory, since they no doubt would like to hurt you for your crime in their eyes of not being racist, nearly as much as they would like to hurt your students.

Lip stiff uppered!

@Amisja Well done Hug icon sent.

1

This is an example of people that have no limits and will openly be racist, it hurts, it undermines the will to do things, and then you know that are the ones that are not openly racist, but will not give a job to a non white unless pressured to do that, or be more resistant to do business. And all this missed opportunities slowly create the racial gap in societies, even after generations.
In my home country the "whites" (most of them just light skin mixed and not full european descendants) have a lot of racism, and then they complain when traveling to europe or USA and being treated as latinos...

1

Why are they the ones having to leave?

That is adding extreme unfairness to what they have already endured.

Especially if they are so close to the end of the assignment.

End of the placement, plus it is usual practice to pull students out of placements for safeguarding concerns.

They will pass

2

Nobody is born a racist.

3

This is so painful and sad. As a military brat, I was raised in what I call a mini UN, type of environment, and feel this is what helped me form my views of other people. There were, black, brown, Asian, Indian, every type of people you could imagine. My parents were also very open minded and taught me that racism is an awful way to go through life. I look at behavior before anything else. I keep hoping one day the world will stop all this hatred simply because of the color of a person's skin. Please give a hug to your students from me.?

3

I feel your pain. It is just too easy now-a-days, to say things without wondering if this/that person will be offered. When I grew up, I was considered ‘poor white trash,’ but it was subdued and by adulthood, I had a decent sense of myself. But, people in my early adult years (back then) seem to show more respect for other people. However, only 50-60 yrs later, there seems to be blatant disregard, for people, in general! And it gets worse, if you are different in some obvious way. Maybe a large segment of any population, lacks empathy! At least, it appears so, here in the US.

4

To me, that is sickening stereo-typing to say the least.
I was 'adopted' by Australian Aboriginal rite and lore with the agreement of my father when I was 13 years old by a very well respected and old Aboriginal friend and his wife.
Jack and Mary, my adoptive Aboriginal parents, had 2 sons and a daughter and ONE major rule in their household, NO Alcohol what-so-ever which both boys broke and were consequently asked to leave the family, young Virginia, " GinGin" as she called herself as a child, is a very brilliant, clever and highly intelligent person who, despite the hassles, etc, etc, has gained numerous degrees in Science and now holds a very prestigious position in a Scientific Research Organisation here in Australia.
My sister still calls herself Gin-Gin and still calls me the albino Brolga, the brolga being a native bird and known as the 'native companion' btw. Both Jack and Mary decided to give me the name Brolga because, like the bird, I had long, skinny legs and was always shuffling them around similar to how the birds 'dance.'
No matter the skin coloration or ethnicity, there should be NO precise little 'boxes' for anyone to made fit into, we can and SHOULD be allowed to strive for and reach our OWN fullest potential.

2

Not being a Brit, I do not know what you mean when you say, "I am white, ginger, ...." What the hell is "ginger"?
Other than that, I don't see an end to racism anytime soon.
My first serious girlfriend (in the U.S. Army), was 1/2 white but I was unaware of that (she looked and passed for the most part as white and I did not really care. However, some of the white solders took it upon themselves to inform me that she was Black. "You do know she is Black", etc., as if, if I knew, I would break it off with her. Things did not work out...I as at a very bad point in my life and the relationship did not progress (my fault, not hers), and we made no plans to stay together when I was discharged. Things have come full circle and my son is engaged to be married to a real nice (intelligent as hell, very involved in bettering the world), Black girl.

Ginger=person with red hair

Awww we need pics when they marry. My sister is mixed race. Her one boy has a white dad her youngest's Dad is black. Her current chap is white. They are family.

@Amisja Brothers and Sisters = Family. My Brothers and Sisters = MY FAMILY. There are two other Light Skinned Sisters not in picture.

3

This story just breaks my heart. Do what you can, when you can. That is all we can do. There are good people out there too. We need to speak our minds and drown those bigots out until their voices are so small that nobody can hear them. I wish I could hug and console your students. ❤️

6

Tell them their best revenge is to succeed at what they are striving for. I am one person rooting for them. I have students of all colors, backgrounds, etc. That makes me feel so free. Please give them hugs for me.

Thank you. They will suceed. It just shouldn't be like this, they are learning to be nurses...to care for others.

7

As someone of Asian descent, I've always found that my experiences tend to be different from those of my friends who are of European descent (I do have diverse friends, always have). When they discuss travel, especially to Europe, I hear things that don't match with my own experiences. I've had racist comments hurled at my face by total strangers, especially in the Netherlands. I have many relatives in the Netherlands. They have been there for 50-60 years, some were born there. They all speak fluent Dutch (my dad's generation spoke Dutch as a first language). My relatives are successful professionals (though many are retired now). Yet, they are treated as second class citizens at times, such as being served last though they have been waiting in queue earlier than others (I did actually see that myself). When I was a graduate student, I had a fellow grad student friend who's of Japanese descent but Canadian born. We were discussing our experiences in Amsterdam. She told me she had a group of young black men shout racist insults at her.

I grew up in a diverse multi-cultural community where someone's skin colour or ethnicity didn't matter. I had friends of all backgrounds and we didn't notice that we were any different. We were all just Canadian kids. Oftentimes, I don't even notice what someone's skin colour or ethnicity is (until someone ultimately reminds me I need to treat different people differently). Someone on this site called me "colour blind", and that is supposedly not a good thing. But I can't help that. I treat everyone as they treat me. I help anyone who needs help no matter who or what they are. I am not naive and unaware of the social/political/economic issues that relate to race and class. After all, I am educated in Anthropology, Sociology, Criminology, History, etc. I've worked pretty closely with indigenous communities as well.

The experiences of those students of yours are probably similar to mine (though may be much more severe and frequent for them). Growing up where we were and highly educated as we are, we just never expect to be singled out for racist comments. We grew up among people who didn't make our race an issue, then we go out to other environments, and we are shocked that some people would throw racist comments in our faces.

But racism isn't a one way street either. My relatives can be very racist towards persons of African/Carribean descent (it was interesting when I dated a couple of such individuals). My auntie came to my parents' anniversary party last year, and she said she didn't like London because "there are too many black people now". I was so disgusted at her. I wear my "colour blindness" with pride. I don't care.

5

and people will say "why don't blacks achieve as much?" This is why... minorities and those perceived as different are systematically beaten down from childhood in small and large ways.

I'm sorry they suffered that. I hope they rise above it and take their places wherever THEY choose to be. I hope they succeed and never look back and most of all I hope their children never suffer that abuse.

These are highly motivated high performing students. They will do well. Just a shame they experienced this.

@Amisja I agree... I see things like this and it just sets me on fire.

4

That is very sad but in my experience of working in England there is a hard core of "little Englanders " who have been supressed for some time but with Brexit and the rise of "populism" they are becoming more confident and outspoken. We have some in Scotland too and they include the English in their list of people to hate.

7

Unfortunately, for those of us in the US the disgust and shame you now feel towards your less enlightened countrymen as well as the anger is an every day occurrence. There have always been ignorant racists here, but in the past three years they've become emboldened and take pride in being lowlife scumbags.

JimG Level 8 Mar 7, 2019
Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:305622
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.