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When religion conflicts with science it holds no credibility. But some have chosen to believe even science was created. I do not make that choice. For example, I look at the mountains that see and feel a beauty undeniable and recognize the wonders of nature. My friend sees the beauty and says, "Look what god has created." We see and feel the same thing and interpret it differently. I say there is no heaven and my friend says, "You don't know that." I say,"You cannot know what I know." My friend is well studied on math and science and sees no conflict. Yet I will not reject my friend as a friend for we both see the beauty. And my friend is liberal, progressive, and a humanist. Not even the big bang is a conflict in this mind set. Particles, quantum mechanics, the big bang, the vast universe, all incorporated. Bottom line (argument) that the human brain is more than chemical interactions. But my friend did a lot of drugs back in the hippie days.

Bigel 5 July 27
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18 comments

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i've always had a problem with educated ppl believing in the god myth. some of them sincerely seem to. can't say i envy them. how will they react when they or a loved one is stricken by a horrible disease?

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Yes, the brain is more than chemical reactions (electromagnetic force). It is also the strong & weak nuclear force with gravity; just like everything else.

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Yes, even science is created. So is your car and everything about it that makes it work. You can also look at how many years your car has been evolving and see exactly in what ways it has evolved.

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I was in an intimate relationship with a **born-again" Christian … I suggested to her to think of evolution as a divine invention.

How did that person respond?

@Drew69 well ... we tried to avoid the issue

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Georges Lemaître, (1894-1966), Belgian cosmologist, Catholic priest, and father of the Big Bang theory. [amnh.org]

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“Bottom line (argument) that the human brain is more than chemical interactions. But my friend did a lot of drugs back in the hippie days.”

What I would say is that I lean toward thinking that conscious awareness is more than chemical interactions in the brain. And I was never a hippie and didn’t do drugs.

Technically, the brain is a mix of biochemical reactions and bio-electrical impulses but that is merely splitting hairs, so to speak.
I tend to think it all depends upon what data is put into the brain as it develops throughout early childhood that influences its perception later in life.
I.e. insert logic and Reasoning in childhood and later in life the brain sees things in a logical and reasoning manner, do the reverse and the brain sees what it has been programmed to see, not what is true and real.

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For the most part I really don't care about the "beliefs" of others. As long as it doesn't impede their work or their contributions. I have a good deal of friends whom of which are "believers", yet do great work with helping others and not forcing their religion or other on them as well. In fact some great minds in the Science fields for example Francis Collins, Kennith R Miller, and quite a few more, are themselves either religious, or at least "believers". yet have no quandaries with the Science, and their faith.

So in essence what I mean is, does it really matter?

@Bigel I can't disagree with you there.

@Bigel IF only these so-called, and often self-proclaimed Do Gooder Believers WOULD actually act as they preach, what a great and truly humanitarian world we would really have.

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The problem is not whether there is a God. The problem is what is ascribed to God. Heaven? Certainly not Hell! Jesus? The Bible? Those things have nothing to do with Whatever there is. How we interpret this whole thing is really left to the individual. In the meantime there is life: your life; my life and how we choose to live it. For me there is CAUSE AND EFFECT. For me there is a scheme of things. And also, "I DO NOT KNOW." I was married to a scientist who is in WHO'S WHO. He was spiritual and found true spirituality among atheists and some religious people. It was about the individual; never about the dogma.Together we saw the hypocrisy of some religious people but when their faith was based of love, tolerance excluding pompous self righteousness, we honored that. It is always the Love; never the dogma. I believe Love is the energy that binds the world.

@Bigel Thank you so much.

Beautiful response!

@WilliamFleming Thank you.

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Yes let’s look at the beautiful sunsets and flowers and cuddly animals that the creator’s hand has made.

Then let’s consider the crap that has also issued from the divine hand such as deserts with 50C+ temperatures and no water for hundreds of miles, the salt oceans that no one can drink from and the tropical reptiles that will kill you as much as look at you.

No design faults there then!

Regardless of the Rings on a tree but there's still no evidence of God it's just science in some religions Still Point to a tree and say this is evidence of God I look at them and say if that be true then if you take the air away from the tree and the nitrogen away from the ground God will feed it then it will stay alive in the middle of a desert from which no rain can get to it and no nutrients in the ground can feed it it will still grow you put a bowl around that tree and do not feed it water and do not feed it any nutrients God will just simply feed it I would like to see the evidence of that I seriously doubt the delusional believe in such garbage

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The mountains were not made by god but by the movement of tectonic plates and volcanic activity. Is your friend aware of that ?

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We know what we believe we know - and we all know and believe something subtley different. I have friends who have a profound belief in a god - different friends, different gods - we have open, sometimes heated, discussions, but that does not prevent friendship.

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I don't believe in God . On the other hand , science is constantly changing , how it views things , too . A hundred years ago , it was impossible to reach the moon , much less actually walk on it . Fifty + years ago , they did it . We laugh at what was the medical field a hundred years ago . I still don't completely trust them , even today , and things that have happened in my own lifetime , shows me I am correct in not always trusting that they actually know what they're doing . While they have learned more , we've also been scammed more . Treatments don't always mean cure , or even improve , and in some cases , most definitely made things a whole lot worse .

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When religion conflicts with science it holds no credibility.

It has none to begin with.

1of5 Level 8 July 27, 2019
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Sorry, but between your friend and Carl Sagan, I would say the scale definitely tilts to Sagan about as similarly as weighing a flea and an elephant. And yes, Sagan would be the elephant in the analogy.

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People believe want they want to believe...or need to believe.

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I think of my quote, somewhat paraphrased from its original form and context:

You may see and appreciate the beauty of the surface of the rose, but I not only see the surface beauty of the rose, I see its beauty all the way through.

~J. Richard Jacobs

The purpose here is to say that unless one is willing to dig deeper, one's appreciation of nature is at best superficial. Stopping at, "See the wonders the Big Guy in the Sky did," will never produce a rich, profound understanding of the universe in which one lives.

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I think of the Douglas Adams quote:

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"

Once upon a time, a lot of smart people thought there WERE literal fairies at the bottom of the garden.

@greyeyed123 I Imagine some still think that today.

@jlynn37 Today it's aliens, ghosts, and bigfoots (I always thought it should be "bigfeet", but I have been told since it is a creature's name, it is bigfoots).

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Your "friend" is conflicted and a walking contradiction, which is fine.
Everyone gets to live with whatever delusions they please.
Most of us live with a certain level of contradiction.
Believers just live with MORE of it.

so true

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