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Do you say the pledge of allegiance, when called to do so in a public setting? If so, do you include the words "...under god?" If not, do you stand or do you remain seated if you are already seated? I myself stand and pledge my allegiance because I want folks to know that I--a liberal, agnostic, Democrat--am invested in making this country as good as it can be, but I don't say "under God."

GarytheGondolier 6 Aug 24
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1

I stand with my hand on my heart but do not pledge out loud. For awhile I just left out the under god part but I thought that looked wise in front of students.

I'm retired now, but as a teacher, I had the same dilemma.

10

I don't do the pledge of allegiance, salute, or put my hand over my heart when the Anthem is played. I will stand, but that is it. I don't bow my head when public prayer is happening either. It would be totally dishonest on my part to do so. I just happen to be born here. I have no respect or allegiance to "things", only to people and animals.

You summed it up perfectly. I don't pledge allegiance to anything and act accordingly.

While I was at my grandson's graduation this past June, they had everyone stand for the pledge and prayer. I stood but did not participate in the pledge nor did I bow my head for their prayer. A woman behind me actually poked me in the back and said I should bow my head for the prayer. I turned around and told her if she touched me again she would lose her finger. These folks in Texas are so rigid in their beliefs and expect everyone to do as they do. I make a point of doing the opposite.

When the national anthem is played at a political or sporting event, I will stand and take off my hate and leave my arms and hands down at my front, but that's it. No hand on my heart stuff.

9

I have a real problem with patriotism in that it all too often feels more like jingoism. When Colin Kaepernick peacefully took a knee during the National Anthem in protest of police brutality, he was exercising his Constitutional right to protest what he saw as racism. The patriotic thing to do would have been to respect his right to do so. The jingoistic thing to do was exactly what everyone did -- lose their collective shit and call for him to be punished for disrespecting a song that ostensibly celebrates his freedom to peacefully take a knee in social protest.

Ironic, isn't it?

@Bobsuruncle That's a really lame "argument".
When Kaepernick started taking a knee, he was demonstrating what a REAL American ought to be doing when they see their nation tolerating terrible things. Protest is absolutely the most American of activities. He was right to do it. Criticizing him for it is what is completely UN-American.

He also wasn't "performing" when he took that knee. It was BEFORE the
game. He still did the job he was being paid to do when the time came to do it.

No one is required to acknowledge the anthem or the pledge, or even the flag.
The ONLY thing worthy of reverence is the Constitution.
Without that, neither the anthem, the flag, nor the pledge mean anything at all.
As far as I'm concerned, the anthem, the flag, and the pledge mean absolutely nothing to me.
Respect the Constitution. That's what makes this country THIS country.

@Bobsuruncle There are very few instances where pledging your allegiance to the flag of our country should be considered a paid performance. A stage play where that is in the script would be one. Pledging allegiance before an athletic event is not.

@Bobsuruncle No, dude. You do not just get to label and insult me for not agreeing with you, and pointing out where I believe you're wrong.
I called your argument "lame", not you. There's a difference.
Learn to debate.
You also don't get to question whether anyone has served or not.
It's none of your business what someone else's service may have been, or wasn't.
You don't speak for all veterans, and you have no right to act like you do.
To that point, and as an fyi, families also serve. You don't speak for them either.

You either present a well-researched, reasoned rebuttal, or not.

I'm not a socialist, a leftist, a communist, a democrat, or any other damned thing you want to try to label me. I'm an American and I don't have to uphold anyone else's idea of what that is, or how I should act.
I think political parties pretty much ALL suck and are corrupt.
Don't think you actually know anything about me, or anyone else.
It's clear you do not.

@KKGator, @GarytheGondolier, @Bobsuruncle This will probably make all of you hate me, but I think kneeling is a very American thing to do, and hating that anyone would kneel during the pledge is also very American. I also think protesting can have a cost, and the cost for Kaepernick was his job...which I also think makes his protest more effective and not less, although I can't imagine myself ever kneeling at the pledge and I find his kneeling a tacky way to protest (while acknowledging it got the attention of the people he wanted to notice).

America is always filled with seeming contradictions. We vote our Congress in, then hate them all (although usually we like the person we voted in). We vote in a president, and a huge number of us spend 4 or 8 years hating his guts (no matter who they are). Eventually we'll elect a woman, and hate her guts for 4 or 8 years. We're not required to agree with each other. And we always have the freedom to change our minds.

@Bobsuruncle You said it plain and wrong, but whatever, you won't even consider another position but your own.
There is nothing "knee jerk" about my reactions. I've been cultivating my own mind for 58 years now, thank you.
I am a student of history. You are behaving like many others have before you.
Almost always not in their best interests, and usually with lots of jingoism thrown in for good measure. They invariably, like every single time, fail spectacularly.
You can't come at me with anything but your emotions.
That's okay, I understand.
If you ever learn how to debate, please let me know.
I'd be happy to.
Enjoy your day.

@Bobsuruncle Thank you for your service, but it doesn't make you better than anyone else, whether they too served, or not.
It's shameful to trade on that service, like it gives you some sort of "right" to dismiss anyone else. It does not.
Seriously, shame on you.

Christ. I go run a few errands for a little while and a shitstorm has broken out over my humble opinion. Turns out I'm edgy and controversial.

My take: Gator's right, Bob's Uncle is wrong. Annnd that's all she wrote.

@greyeyed123 I don't hate you. You have a different opinion. That's all.
I don't agree with some of what you said, but I also agree with some of it.

@Bobsuruncle Hood rat? Racist much?

Having served does NOT make your opinion more valid than a regular citizen. Most of my antecedents have served or were married to servicemen and NONE of them expect their opinion to carry more weight.

Perhaps it is because they came from a different era or because they saw combat for extended periods or perhaps it is because they were decent people in general but the way you are treating people here marks you as unlike any of the veterans I know.

Would your commanding officer be ok with the way you are speaking to fellow citizens?

Talk about conduct unbecoming.

@Bobsuruncle Well, you are not "everyone" are you? Who is this everyone you keep mentioning? He has plenty of supporters and many others who are just kinda meh about it but he does not have "everyone" hating him

He risked his career to bring attention to something he felt strongly about. Sounds pretty American to me. The fact that he had white parents and affluence makes his action even more meaningful as it would have been easier for him to just comply and maintain the status quo rather than going against the norm. Particularly since he himself probably had never experienced much injustice due to his white parents

In fact, it was downright brave of him

He could have just ranted anonymously on the net instead of putting his livelihood on the line

7

And now Bobsuruncle has blocked me.

Odd that only white conservative men block me lol

Who's the snowflake?

I'm sure you are in excellent company.

@KKGator Yeah, I probably am lol

7

I used to stand and leave out the "Under God".

Right now I'm not sure in good conscience I could say the pledge.

" With Liberty and Justice for all?". I'd choke on the words.

I don't stand for any prayer will stand for the pledge but never say god

7

I'm not much for pledging allegiance. It feels a bit divisive to me. I'm involved in my local community, I vote regularly, and I'll gladly serve jury duty when called, but a pledge of loyalty seems weird and unnecessary to me. Maybe if had a powerful government position or if I were in the military or secret service or government intelligence it would make sense to take such an oath, but I feel more like Thomas Paine did in this regard: "my country is the world, and my religion is to do good." As for "under God," I won't say that regardless; not only do I not believe it, but it's also strange/ironic to me that the phrase "one nation indivisible" was divided by the insertion of "God."

7

I stand but do not say the pledge. If I were to say the pledge, I would replace "under god" with "under the Constitution".

Same

7

I have omitted "under god" for decades now. I've made sure my grandchildren know that those two words were added to the pledge under Eisenhower as well.

7

I also omit "under god." I go right on to "indivisible, with liberty and justice for all," and I end two words before everyone else. 🙂

@germangirl90439 Thanks for doing that. 👍 I will do it too, now. It's becoming a necessity, now that racists are ruining equal rights.

6

If everyone in my vicinity knew that I was a liberal, agnostic atheist and I felt like politely representing, I would probably do something similar. Realistically, they do not, and I’m never at an event where this sort of nonsense is going on to begin with. Lately now that I hear of people being assaulted for not standing for the anthem I’d probably sit and dare someone to say something to me. There are limited ways I can use my white privilege but supporting the protest against our fascist, racist, hypocritical, evangelical government is the least I can do. I owe no allegiance to any flag or god; just my fellow humans, who are suffering under this nationalist bullshit. I love my country but my government has some motherfucking explaining to do.

6

No. I am not participating in such a clear form of propaganda and indoctrination willingly. I remain seated. In protest of all the atrocities that this country commits daily in the name of that flag, patriotism, and their imaginary friend, god. That, and fuck getting up for no good reason.

6

I don't stand and I don't put myself in a position where I have to deal with this shit. If they are gonna do it, I get up and hit the bathroom or something.

5

Absolutely not and here, in my area, there are seldom events that do this. My late partner quit her sub job at the local school as the new principal was having this said over the intercom and, of course, they never tell people it is their right to not participate.

5

I stand if I'm at a place where it is being said out of respect for my country, allegiance to a flag no allegiance to the people who it represents yes, under god no way.

4

I bow before no man or god ... I pledge allegiance to no country, no flag, no ruler .. only to those I love

4

I did it as a child in school, because it was mandatory.
I no longer recite it, and depending upon where I am, and who I'm with,
I will remain seated during it's recitation.
I will not pledge allegiance to any flag, or country.
I don't respect "patriotism", or nationalism. I find most of it false and
used as a blunt instrument with which to beat the masses to further an
agenda.
I will not participate in that, no matter who I piss off.

4

As a public school teacher in Texas I pledged every morning for 31 years. I think I am grandfathered in and no longer have to recite it. lol
I did stand and stood what in military jargon is called "at ease". No hand over my heart and do not say "under god".
Like mistymoon77, I'll avoid it when I can.

4

I find the pledge to be very annoying. I do not like it at all. It has been several years since I have been in a situation where it was done, so not sure what I would do today. In the past I went along, just to move the meeting along to get to the real point of that meeting. Not sure I would do that today. Either someone believes in their country and will stand by it, or they do not feel that way. Saying a pledge does not make you MORE inclined to be patriotic.

4

Same. I just omit “under God.”

3

Yes, but I don't say "under God" and after
"with liberty and justice for all" I add "some day."

3

I stay seated. Everyone else always stands and it never ceases to amaze me how people just conform.

How about taking the knee? 🙂

3

I stand, put my hand over my heart and recite it but do not say under god.

Nearly all instances of the pledge involve my grands school functions and I absolutely will not cause them problems by refusing to stand or say it.

That's pretty much where I'm at with this thing. Kids' school functions are the primary places where that garbage gets trotted out.
I'll stand silently. Won't put my hand over my heart, won't sing, won't recite the pledge.
I've noticed several others doing the same. I know I'm not alone.

3

No because I am English

Do you mean, "British"?

3

As a Britisher I do not have to pledge allegiance or loyalty to anyone or anything. I'm surprised that anyone in a free country should want to do so. It makes me think of Germany when everyone in the army had to pledge allegiance to Hitler. Don't bend the knee in subservience to anything but your own conscience.

The Pledge of Allegiance that mainly schoolchildren are forced to recite has a lot of similarity to the "Loyalty Oath" government officials & others were forced to take during the Red Scare & the McCarthy horror. The House UnAmerican Activities Committee would love it. Prepare to denounce your Fellow Travellers

3

I find that knowing people from their actions is a much greater indicator of their character and how they feel about things than simplistic incantations mumbled by rote at football games and such. A robot I'm not, and Pavlovian conditioning didn't take with me. I stand out of respect, but do not make meaningless noises for the sake of showing how patriotic and loyal I am.

3

The phrase, "Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance during the "50's because mainly of pressure from The Knights of Columbus, a Catholic organization. The catholic church was engaged in that period of red scare & McCarthyism in combating "Godless Communism"

They felt adding this phrase to the Pledge would help keep Communism from our shores & preserve their power. Politicians who were terrified of McCarthyism caved in to this blatant violation of the separation of church & state in our constitution.

I believe we Agnostics should do everything in our power to have this unconstitutional phrase removed from the Pledge. The catholic church should concentrate on cleansing itself of pedophiles & stop trying to defy our American Constitution with Deistic nonsense.

Meanwhile I would stand for the Pledge. When in Rome, do as the Roman's do. But don't say, "Under God". America is not a theocracy, as some religious nuts would like to make it.

And while we're at it, let's try to get "IN GOD WE TRUST" off our currency as well !

@HughJassell Great Idea. Why is "In god we trust" on American currency. Maybe because we may trust "god" but not the currency

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