Agnostic.com

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I am a member that left for several months. I decided that for the safety of my career, and interpersonal relationships, I'd just have to remain a lonely atheist.

I know.....Sad face. 😔

Something I'm noticing, upon my return, is that the demographic of this site has changed, drastically. Not only is the average age of participants higher, but the ethnic diversity has also declined.

This site isn't as reflective of the natural melting pot we are, as a global society.

I want healthy debate, and conversation with people from my own generation. I want healthy debate, and conversation, with people that look like my friends and neighbors.

Agnostic.com used to advertise on Reddit atheist forums. I no longer see that. I used to see ads for Agnostic.com on Facebook, and maybe even Instagram.

Advertising needs to be specific and focused on improving the demographic of this site, in order to make it more appealing to Generation Xers, Generation Y, and Millennials. I'm 38 years old, and I'm finding it difficult to locate individuals of my generation. There are a great deal of Traditionalists, and Baby Boomer generation individuals, on this site. And although I greatly appreciate their experience and wisdom, I still want that healthy mix of perspective.

I was raised by a Traditionalist father (b.1936), and a Baby Boomer mom (b.1957). Age differences, and generational differences, aren't a big deal to me, except when it comes to receiving input. I want a vast array of ideas and information. Because I'm a free thinker! And I want to make informed decisions. My millennial understudy at work shows me new things all the time. I appreciate her spry wit, non-traditional sensibilities, and ease with technology. I appreciate all people.

I want a better mix.

Tell me how you feel.....

FilthyMONKEYgirl 6 Feb 12
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45 comments

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1

I agree with you, but it would appear that there is a colour divide in atheism. I have encountered very few Afro-atheists as an example.
Age, well I cannot answer that as easily. I have encountered a diverse age range, but I tend to try keep my attempts to 'date' closer to my age, but will otherwise engage happily outwith my failed dating attempts to any age. I was young once, or indeed many times really, and I've yet to become properly old.
Location, Scotland appears to be a passion desert for me. The only ladies I find are thousands of kilometres away and thus are far from practical.
Conversation, I love almost all conversation - but then I'm a Social Scientist!

@FilthyMONKEYgirl I may be able to help with explaining that after Easter. We're covering religion and society in class then as part of sociology studies (I'm a very mature student). So far, I've only ever met one Afro-Atheist face to face, and that was this year (I'm 57) so I've met a lot of people. Although I have encountered a few on this site. It could be that this site mainly attracts 'white folks'.

@FilthyMONKEYgirl I wonder if minorities, particularily African american ones, are offput from this site, since the Boomers and Gen X'ers are very particular about proper grammar and spelling. And they will go into annoying grammar nazi mode with anyone that deviates from that. In my experience living in predominantly black neighbourhoods, slang was accepted and celebrated. Here it will get you mocked, lecture, explained to or suspected of being a scammer!!

@demifeministgal What exactly is wrong with using standard English, and how does using and encouraging it make one a nazi? I've never understood that term. Surely, knowing the difference between "two", "to", and "too", for instance, can only help us understand one another.

@Paul4747 Did I say there is anything wrong with using standard English? No. But cool strawman though. But there is something wrong with the snobby, classist attitude many on this forum have towards using proper grammar and against those that do not. It borders on racist to criticize or look down on those that use African American vernacular or "ebonics".
And what is wrong is when a person constantly use it against someone quite clearly using slang, they become insufferable twats and no wonder the person would leave such an environment.

See right there a generational divide. Grammar-nazi is a youth culture term for people that are constantly unnecessarily correcting peoples' grammar online, as if it was a business correspondence, rather than an informal social media setting.

@demifeministgal Ebonics, please explain more deeply. If I'm guessing correctly, is that it is a new 'pidgeon English' used in American ghettos I must learn more as it would fit into my sociology studies very nicely.
I'm not making fun or having a dig, I'm interested and currently studying modern western cities.

@Sofabeast yes it is very specific to north america, as I have encountered it in Canada as well. African American vernacular is explained here: [en.wikipedia.org]

And some sociological journal articles here: [jstor.org]

[link.springer.com]

@demifeministgal Here's the thing: slang is just that, "a type of language that consists of words and phrases that are regarded as very informal, are more common in speech than writing"...
So if someone where I work says "I'm gone the liberry", I know what they mean, but if the same person writes "I need go the liberry", I begin to suspect it's because they don't actually know how to properly write, "I need to go to the library," in English. If that makes me a snob, well, so be it. And this forum is for the written word. There's nothing "borderline racist" about it. It's a spellchecker, for frak sake.

@Paul4747 If you think that your example is an example of slang, then you have never encountered slang in your life. heh

@demifeministgal Thanks for the sociological link. We can't use wiki for refernce reasons.

@Sofabeast If you scroll down through wiki articles at the bottom they often have references they used and you can use those references. 🙂

9

Damn kids! GET OFF MY LAWN OR I'M CALLING THE COPS!

Haven't seen an ad for this place in quite some time, but they were mainly focused on this place being a dating site - which it can be if you put the time and effort into it - but as a "typical" dating site its horrible (which is ironic, sort of, since most people think all dating sites are horrible).

My wife and I (whom I met here) have a running bet as to the death date of this place just because of the lack of new folks sticking around.

Anyways, dump the dating advertising crap but have groups where folks interested in dating can go. Sell it as a place to meet people, not "the one", and you may get a greater diversity. May. Once us old white guys claim something as ours you need to pry it from our dead hands and make sure we didn't bequeath it to our kids.

1of5 Level 8 Feb 12, 2020
8

This site isn't as reflective of the natural melting pot we are, as a global society.” So how’s Atheism faring globally..?

What other Atheist/ Agnostic sources have you been accessing?

My brother and I were the youngest members and attendees at our closest Atheist organization meetings & events ..decades ago. And, there were no females!

My take? Athiesum is too hot. Youngsters are already up against as much as they can handle (mine are) … so why take on even more, to open themsleves up to more discrimination, to close more doors in life..

My brother and I remain fighters, with an Atheist upbringing and militant parents. Most aren’t as fortunate...

And, as Madalyn O’Hair once put it, “We’re the intellectual elite.” No shit - but it takes a while to reach that level. Most youth simply haven’t. Sure, they know religion is bullshit.. but understanding it’s matrix of subtle nuances and twisted history takes time. No one I knew read American Atheist Magazine in bed during their twenties.. other than that brother and self.

So don’t blame us for the demographics. Youth are welcome. But, they need to have arrived at Atheism from a process of elimination, or education, not as an act of rebellion. It’s an easy ‘attention getter,’ and too often used for that. Admittedly, those seeking that type of attention don’t last long around here, they’re associating with Masters, not Ministers.

I’ve certainly noticed the age gap, but also realize - I’m in excellent company 🙂

Varn Level 8 Feb 12, 2020

Most excellent post! Thank you.

I like one of your statements. I think I may use it to describe myself: I arrived at agnosticism through the process of education and elimination. 🙂

7

If you want as you say healthy debate looks to me like you will have to put up with us "oldies". Apparently the "younger" generation are too busy with other things in life.

And I believe us "oldies" are more than happy to entertain the thoughts, questions, "interconnections of mind" with those that are younger, those that are diverse. I welcome diversity in all its forms.

Having younger minds weigh in here is vital. I also welcome it in my neighborhood - if possible. I wouldn't live in a "oldies only" world...

@Santanaman9 Ohhh dude. What you said 🙂

6

I guess I'm lucky that some of my young friends are willing to put up with my old ass. 😉

But we do get some young folks making new accounts every day - so wherever the site is advertising it is bringing folks in.

I think they experiment with the advertising from time to time. Which makes sense as they would get feedback on what works and what doesn't - from whoever they used.

You have to give them a chance to try new things.

I also enjoy my older friends. Everyone has something to contribute I find.

I know it's discouraging if you are looking for someone to keep up with you physically - but as far as friendships? I've made some solid ones being here for a 2 1/2 years now.

To me it has even been worth the numbnuts I have blocked and all that aggravation. Sure some folks are bitey - but that's on any social media platform.
If people are disagreeable enough - block them. And enjoy the rest of the folks.

6

I've never thought about someone's age or looks when browsing this site or engaging in the conversations here. It just doesn't matter to me. I have seen AG.com advertising from time to time on FB, but I can't say that about other sites as I'm not on them. When you say you want a better mix I'm not sure what you want Agnostics to do about that. The only thing they can do is entice someone to come check it out and possibly join, but they can't force anyone to do that. That decision is the sole responsibility of the person who sees the advertisement, or hears about it from someone which is how I heard about it. Perhaps you will be the one who can do that? As the saying goes...If you want change be the change, or is it Be the change you want to see? Not sure exactly how that one goes. 😉

The kid complaining won't respond to solutions to her alleged problem. She only wants to talk to those who agree and insult or ignore those who don't.

@JustAskMe ...I wouldn’t say that.. She was first to give my post a thumbs up … and it wasn’t all that ..agreeable with her concerns. Let her be young(ish) ~

6

I am with you. I love interacting with people from all walks of life. I love diversity too.

6

Appreciate your speaking up about this.

6

so the people who exhibit a mindset independent from typical cultural beliefs tend to be older? color me shocked.

5

Wherever you go in life don't stop opening doors.

5

White men tend to make up most of atheist. The more diverersity we get the better!

@Allamanda - and another judgement

@Allamanda It actually has been shown statistically correct. I don't care what demographics are. I just want to understand what they indicate so that we can work on getting to the demographics that are neglected. I would have been better to indicate that this is a reflection of American demographics.

@DavidLaDeau Who gives a shit about them demographic? what difference does it make? If we want diversity we need to CREATE it, rather than complain about the lack of it.

White men tend to make up most of atheist.” -- I’ve noticed the same for...ever.. My take is, ‘we white guys’ have had more opportunities, thus are first to feel we’ve the ..momentum to take on the monster of Religion. Though, it does cause such a ‘white guy’ to whence when reminded only of ‘his privileges.’ It’s what you do with those privileges that counts…

5

Many who rebel against religious indoctrination go through a gradual metamorphosis; so are naturally older.
Agnostics (and atheists) are not, also, compelled to convert others to their point of view, because of the nature of the beliefs (or non-beliefs) themselves.
No rewards or punishments for increasing the 'flock!'
Except for the U.S. among Western nations, non-belief is not a big deal, right?
Americans are more oppressed by majority religionists, so come to a site like this to find like-minded people. Most are cowed by their communities into remaining silent.
It is only here we find out our numbers are much greater than it seems!
I personally don't consider this a "dating site," though it IS what initially attracted me. It took me about three visits to find out there is MUCH more--and more valuable--to it than that!
I've no idea the demographics. Never thought of it before. You're more sensitized to it, obviously, but what can I say about it? Sorry?
Well then, I'm sorry, but neither I nor anybody else has control over who chooses to join in.
Certainly no one is discouraged from participating. Everybody's welcome.

5

Maybe start a new group for "under 40" or whatever section of society you are seeking to converse with? It might take a while to get members, but maybe pose questions or topics you'd like to discuss and see what happens? I think some of us older folk simply have more time on their hands to browse the site and voice our comments.

5

I read your post with interest and agree that the site is skewed very much to an older demographic..it’s also skewed even more to an American one. I never registered for the dating side, only wanting a social dimension, but I can understand that due to the completely scattered nature of the membership it would not have a very high success rate

As an older member, I am therefore someone who falls into the first demographic, but I would say that I enjoy the discourse with most members without even thinking about their age..I’m 74 so most are actually younger than me. I can understand that there may be an age gap in my knowledge of youth culture, but I like to think that mental age needn’t be tied to chronological age, and that I can converse and have a lively interchange with everyone. The other category, that of national demographic, I have found to be quite interesting coming as I do from the U.K. I have never before had such an insight into the psyche of Americans and the sometimes not so subtle difference in language and English terminology. The experience I have had on the site has been extremely enjoyable and because I’m retired I can spend possibly a little bit too much time here.

@FilthyMONKEYgirl I hope you stick around...we need all ages and differing ethnicities.

@Marionville - Naw, we don't need a filthy monkey.

5

Cant fight statistics. The App is mostly used in America I imagine and perhaps other parts of the western world, and most of the population are caucasian. Initially the proportions may have been more even. As the App becomes more popular it will naturally shift to the proportions found in the general population.

I personally don't mind the imbalance, it's not the result of a bad rule or practise. It's just statistics.

I do however notice that a signification amount of the discussions is uh....christian-centric. 🙂 I never grew up as a christian so I'm sort of outside most of the conversations there, lol. And it can get a bit tiresome hearing the same kinds of stories. 🙂

But hey, I'm waiting for the day when the dominant conversation shifts from escaping christianity or venting about it to more secular concerns and experiences.

I agree with your findings. Atheist (formerly religious people) seem to be stuck in the mode of being anti-religious rather than true atheist. I don't see the need to talk about fantasy creatures and I hope it gets put further and further away from the topic. This is the main reason I have difficulty joining atheists groups in my area. All they seem to want to talk about is religions and I am way past that in my experiences.

This post is the biggest non-sense post I've seen so far. Basically, the original poster is saying, "I don't like you folks" then proceeds to complain. ... Just another brat bitching about things over which they have no control to other folks who also have no control over what she's complaining about.

@FilthyMONKEYgirl
I absolutely love that podcast along with cognitive dissonance

4

I've truly never thought about the age of other members very much. People are who they are. Most don't live near me in any case, so it hasn't entered into the equation.

Since we're a self-selecting group, I've no idea how to go about "attracting" anyone of any particular demographic... I personally joined because I wondered if there was such a thing as "Christian Mingle for agnostics", and this is where I wound up. I even had a few dates as a result. Not for quite some time now, though. It is what it is. (A tautology.)

@FilthyMONKEYgirl I don't even have a feed... I just keep on the main page for new posts. (I'm also on a laptop, not a phone, maybe that makes a difference to what I'm seeing.) That's probably why I don't see ages.

Diversity can't be enforced... I don't know how we could. I can only suggest looking through all the groups and seeing what the memberships look like, compared to the overall site. Maybe the people you're looking for cluster in a few particular groups?

Out of curiosity, what is "enough" diversity? Because when I think about it, and taking into account that half the people here are male, or have cartoon avatars, the membership looks about like who I see when I look through the matches I'm offered on any other dating site.

@Paul4747 I stay on the main page also. I've never had a "feed" or noticed any thumbnails before. Is my feed my profile page or account?

@RhondaShotwell I can only guess... maybe it's the main page where you click the Agnostic.com logo, and a number of member pictures appear off to one side, along with "favorite members" and then "new posts" on the other side of the page, plus a lot of links to useful information? Then again, maybe it's on the phone page?

I don't really know, by the standards of internet users I seem to be clueless and possibly senile. My therapist is half my age and she gets endless amusement from my not knowing things like, "What the hell is a 'podcast'?" and "Who is 'Ted' and what is he talking about?" I don't get this whole You Tube thing. I learn by reading, I have all my life. If someone couldn't take the time to write it down, the way I see it, it can't be that important. 😉

@Paul4747 You only see the ages near people's names if you have the dating aspect of the site turned on. It might be something we want to ask them to change. But than we could all become ageists... lol

@RavenCT That's the thing, I don't see your age now. I do see our theoretical match %. Maybe it's because my hover is set to "off"? I don't see your thumbnail (I think I used that correctly, but again, I'm an old fossil) when I move the curser over your name. I only see that you have a heart, and I can see that all the time. 🙂

I see ages in the comments list, maybe that's the mystical "feed" of which someone spoke? But I see that for everyone, including other males (who I'm definitely not looking to date) and people who are here for community.

And I just realized that ages also show when I look at who liked a comment I made, but in that case they have to have the dating function active.

@Paul4747 it might have to do with the hover function? I do know I don't see certain folks ages and I'm never sure why?

@RavenCT There's a profile setting to hide your age. I was fooling around with my settings trying to figure out why I have worse match options than I thought I should.

4

We don't always get what we want. ... I don't understand the point or purpose of your post.

... Now that I think about it, you're right. ... I can't stand "kids" (anyone under 30) they are spoiled, entitled, and always complaining, but never lifting a finger toward change. If you don't like it here, go away.

@JustAskMe Geez - please don't paint all of a group with the same brush ! I could show you plenty of folks way older than thirty, that match your disparaging words precisely.
And plenty of younger folks whose minds are active, open and hopeful. They're out there ...

@evergreen Please show me. I would love to be wrong!

@JustAskMe Being as they're out in the world , and not on this site, I'll hope you run into a few on your own. Though of course, sometimes our preconceived ideas can produce a self-fulfilling prophecy ...

@JustAskMe geeze talk about an ok boomer response. You need to pull that stick out of your decrepit dying ass. And ironically it is millenials/Gen Z'ers that are engaged in activism at high rates and being constantly shit on by conservative boomers. Also, such a Murican thing to say: you don't like this country then move! herp derp. Goodness forbid one CHANGES one's community instead of fleeing it at the sign of any flaws.

@evergreen I'm sure you're not blaming ME for the LACK in young people. ,,, I see what they show and have no use for it, but you may want to forward your suggestion to the original poster as she is so unhappy with the group here. And since my comment upset a youngin' so much (DEMIFEMINISTGAL) that she made an insulting remark then BLOCKED ME, I'll simply leave you all with this prime example of why I CAN'T STAND KIDS!

@JustAskMe if it was in response to that sweeping generalisation and ad hominem you tossed out then I really wouldn't blame them. Some people would call comments like that "fighting words" so don't be surprised if it causes people to come out swinging in response to such a taunt.

@prometheus Gee, thanks for the social skills lesson. ... I don't like you either. You TRY to sound mature and intelligent, but I'm sorry, you didn't quite make it. However, you showed more maturity than one who hurls an insult then BLOCKS.

@JustAskMe That is cute that you had to lie about me blocking you to make some vague point. The reality is, you do not know how to use your technological device (what else is new boomer?) and imagined I blocked you. I have yet to block your miserable self sweetheart. No worries 😉

@JustAskMe "I don't like you either" - sounds remarkably like a strawman to me because I never said I didn't like you. I don't know you from anyone else here. What I did was point out what you said previously to someone was and I quote, "[a] sweeping generalization and ad hominem". If you'd like to argue it wasn't have at it. I'm all ears. And if you think pointing out such a thing means I don't like you well I guess that's your subjective opinion. I have plenty of good friends who'd call each other out for such a thing and we're all better friends for it.

Good logic means we should attack the argument not the person but that also means that just because I'm attacking your argument doesn't imply I'm attacking you. It's not at all personal unless you take it to be or make it so, and that's beyond my control.

4

Popularity contests, and idlers, interest me not, and IMO if you desire Quality conversation you would feel the same. Lately there has been a Huge influx of foolish posts, and what good are they?

4

I wonder if the ads might be selectively somehow not appearing on those sites. Social media logarithms do not impress me. I enjoy a diverse group of people in a discussion also but how do ya get the tribal nature of humans to stop moving the group(s) away from that which we seek to avoid?

3

The more the merrier, the more diversity the better, the more intelligent the better.

3

Yes, I would like for more younger people to be on the site (or at least stay and be active on the site), but this site is what it is. There's a ton of social media out there: Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, Instagram, Snapchat, Pinterest, Tik Tok, etc. I assume a lot of younger people don't want another one. Plus, the site is very bland looking. If you aren't familiar with this site and its groups, then it probably won't hold your attention for very long.

3

Free thinkers don't allow themselves to be limited or qualified by identity related evaluations. Identity as or with is antithetical to individuality and to independent evaluation of people and their ideas, even IF they themselves 'identify' as members of this or that 'ism'. Freedom means little if tethered to such herd limitations; especially when it is alleged to be thinking.

Being merely atheist doesn't translate into 'free thinking' all by itself. The way out of the morass of identity qualification isn't that simple or short in duration. A person who thinks freely isn't to be found as a member of any 'community thought system' or generation, for that matter. Those elements aren't on their face disqualifying and by allowing them to be, one becomes self-blinding. Real free thinkers will inevitably find themselves among identity groups if they take ANY position, pro or con, on ANY issue. More often than not, their reasons for sharing partnership with group thinkers on a position will differ. That is, 'we agree or disagree on this question together, but NOT for the same reasons and not necessarily expressed in the same language'...

You have a long way to go but so do we all.

3

I don’t understand . U are 2 yrs away from 40 , right ?
What is the age of people u wish u had more of here to interact with ?
U said that Bcz of job / career etc u left this site , safety and not been an open atheist . At your profile says that u will only discuss personal matters on private msg as well .
If all people who are agnostics or atheists had same issue or only to talk in private , how a site like this will had be surviving ? U want younger people to come here , then u want them to spill out their guts , but u are not willing to do the same ? M I getting this wrong ?
Most people who made a career and a position in their world that allows them to say “ I don’t give a rat’s ass who thinks what about my atheism “, are people who in the majority are older with a lot of credentials in their resume to allow that type of thinking . Even then , not for everyone .
In any ways , what is that u suggest as solution ? Advertise this site in a way to appeal more to younger people ? How ? This site does not sell anything trendy or popular .
And does not close doors to young ( I assume 18-30 ) folks .
Perhaps they are not interested ?

@FilthyMONKEYgirl yes . I see it now . Sorry , I am not very bright . Can’t read well also 🦇👍

@FilthyMONKEYgirl Both my children are in their 30's, and some time ago I asked them if they talked about religion with their friends, and both responses were not really. For them the subject doesn't come up as a topic of conversation. I think lots of younger people are not really interested in it the way older generations are. Perhaps they think it will all go away in the future so they don't really have to worry about it like some of us do?

@FilthyMONKEYgirl My question is "Is it so hard to talk to people 10 years older than you?"

@FilthyMONKEYgirl Like I said in the first place - "We don't always get what we want."

@FilthyMONKEYgirl I'm with you. Sad fact is, I didn't deconvert until about 4 months ago, and it's been a major shock to my system. I'm still hiding in my closet, because my entire world is all Midwest Americana Christianity. So I too am looking to rebuild my social environment, and I treasure the input from everyone, of all ages, but I really enjoy young people. Figure this out. I'm over 60, and I'm writing a young adult time travel romance, geared around a 17 year old marching band sax player and a mysterious stranger who only speaks Latin. So I'm immersed in the mindset of youth, and I totally love it! It's that 'everything is new and exciting' age and there's so much energy. Anyway, point I'm making is, yes, bring on the diversity. It stretches our experience of being human. For as short as it is, we might as well enjoy it to the fullest. 🙂

3

There's plenty of healthy discussion on /r/atheism if you like to air your laundry in public - just use an anonymous user name of you're afraid of that.

As for old people - as I push into my "over the hill" years I think you'll find everyone is like that eventually. We've had the spark of youth, hope, and optimism ground out of us and get tired of hearing the same stuff we've heard all our lives. And yes when you have less time left to live than you've lived already it inevitably changes your perspective on life the universe and everything.

That said I personally feel invigorated by hanging out with people in their twenties and thirties who feel the same way as I do about religion a decade or two their senior. If nothing else it gives me hope and so long as they don't have a problem with my age neither do I with their youth.

On the topic of diversity - I live in a city where Caucasians are the minority yet the local atheist meetup is almost exclusively white, most are also 50+ and many retired. But at least we seem to have a good mix of male/female - often about even. I think we probably create a bias by just being social and not doing anything active. Not sure about ethnic diversity - there's always the argument that someone who is not-X (insert your minority of cover in that context) shows up and most everyone is X so they don't come back. There's the same problem in tech recruiting women. A common solution seems to be start something that is all not-X and then introduce X over time, formally or informally. In tech that has been women founders hiring mostly women to start and gradually diversifying.

3

" I appreciate all people." Best statement of your whole post. People on the whole tend NOT to use it. Glad you see things changing - they always will but I hope YOU stay with us on this progressive merry-go-round.

3

I agree. I think they ran out of funding and stopped advertising. Also alot of the conversation went into the groups instead of being a "melting pot" type space. I'm not around as much but I think that also had to do with lack of funding for moderators to keep put trolls. Its weird because I seem too old on regular dating sites and here it's the opposite..

MsAl Level 8 Feb 12, 2020
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