I am learning more and more that Bernie is a far left extremist and he does not want to live in Cuba. The more I learn, the more I am disappointed.

@St-Sinner no, you are not..

@St-Sinner I could live in Cuba. If I have healthcare, food, and a place to live it doesn't bother me any. The flag you fly (if you fly any flags at all) depends upon where you live. Imagine that, and I am ex-military as well. U.S. Army.

@DenoPenno

So it is convenient to your stage in your life and your preferences but is Cuba good for US population? The answer I think is that the majority will refuse to have what Cuba offers.

@St-Sinner Your answer does not make sense here, Mr. Distraction. I said nothing about Cuba being good for US population. WTF does that even mean?

I think St-Sinner, (in keeping with his current assertion) doesn't get the big picture when you referenced Enron. . .

[investopedia.com]

@NoMagicCookie St Sinner gave it a "like". Probably aware

I don't wanna stock up. At home and everything else is shut down....... The grocery store is gonna be the only place to go !!

@twill But, if everybody else is there, it could be the place to avoid!

@BirdMan1 Double Edged Sword.. They are also cutting hours, so sneaking in after midnight!

@Capitalist so the guys who come to put my house out if it catches fire are thugs? I'm being bullied by the guy plowing the road?You seem to have not noticed that society (and libertarians hate society) only functions under a social contract-things that the majority agree are good things. Like police, clean water and schools. Been that way for a few thousand years-essentially since Thog and Ugg decided hunting together fed them better than going it alone. There are places like Taliban Afghanistan and Somalia where there is no evil government stealing your money. Just religious nuts. As for the Fed-as recent history has shown,it' run by the Admin, which, last time I looked, is still the government. And it's the government ho backs the value of the paper.

@Capitalist You seem to have trouble dealing with reality.

@Capitalist Tell it to the Marines. Seriously, go tell any one of them they are part of a socialist protection racket.

@Capitalist It'salways good to insult the other person when you have no coherent response. If you're in Kindergarten. Consider yurself blocked, moron.

But we can't have the evil gummint involved in stopping it because that's socialism.

I can only think what's to come based on what Bernie is telling us. Should I not trust Bernie?

@St-Sinner Bernie will not be elected. But, much of what he calls for is badly needed. If major parts of his platform are enacted, our people, our economy, and our country will benefit.

@wordywalt

It is amazing how well you are agreeing with me. Bernie will get credit for giving a voice of equality and justice for economic issues of Americans. He called for economic justice and that will live on. But Bernie has been a bad messenger. Could he not have started a think tank, launched much better young candidates and done better for his cause? Bernie has been a terrible messenger with his old age, hunchback, heart stroke patient status after a heart attack and his demographics. He is a bad messenger. That is what I have a problem with.

Controlled Capitalism is the solution. This is not happening now. Going far left is not a solution. And Bernie continuous capitalizing on people anger about abuses of capitalism to get elected is a wrong thing and unworthy of a candidate to me. He has polarized the entire Democratic opposition to Trump and made it easier for Trump to win.

With a candidate like Bernie, who needs enemies?

@St-Sinner that's what Democratic Socialim is. Controlled capitalism.

@t1nick

First Bernie said, Yes, I am a socialist. Then he noticed after the national outcry that it would not fly. So he started making a milder argument about Democratic Socialism. Socialism is socialism. It is taking money from one class and giving it another. Call it by any name. His lame argument is not selling. Don't believe me? See why Bernie can fail two times in a row after wasting millions taken from common people.

@St-Sinner I'm not voting for Bernie to be clear. Also to be clear, whether he called himself a Socialist or a Democratic Sicialist, his policy stands were always consistent.

Not all socialism is or have to be monolithic. Your generalization is false. We have aspects of socialism in our present system now. Social Security, public transportation, Medicaid and Medicare. etc.

Its generally a matter of who is making the policy and for whom. Elected officials make the laws, but they are tempered and tempted by corporate lobbies. The corporations really make the laws and direct the policies through their lobbies.

@t1nick Controlled Capitalism is not Democratic Socialism.

1. Controlled Capitalism = keep a leveled playing field, catch and punish financial criminals, establish the rule of law and see if everybody is playing by the rules. It requires least government intervention and instead wants competitive forces to make things work
2. Democratic Socialism = Don't give subsidies and money to businesses and corporations but instead tax them highly and redistribute the tax collection to the poor. Give food stamps, give free housing, give free healthcare, give free college but who will pay them? The Rich! It is punishing the successful and giving it to the unsuccessful.

@St-Sinner I disagree with your definition of Democratic Socialim. And your definition of Controlled Capitalism sounds like Libertarianism which is based on flawed premises.

In the finest example of the joys of capitalism and the curse of socialism, MI AG just cited MENARDS for price gouging. Geez, if a capitalist can't profit from a disaster, this country is doomed.

So I should not believe what Bernie has been saying all along? His $17 trillion Dollar loot, redistribution of wealth, taking from the successful and giving to the unsuccessful? Should I not believe him?

@St-Sinner Funny, you currently have no problem taking from the middle and working classes and giving it to corporations and the very wealthy. As for the successful, maybe we could just take it from the sperm derby winners like Paris Hilton and Donny, Ivanka and Jarhead.

@RonWilliam53

No I have a problem. I am against redistribution of wealth by the government of any kind.

@St-Sinner yes, you often rave here against government bail outs of wall street and other subsidies given to the wealthy and the corporate sector --- oh, WAIT, you don't!

@David1955

You have misunderstood me.

@St-Sinner Errrrrrrrrr.. How?

"I am against redistribution of wealth by the government of any kind."

@ToolGuy
I do not know what books you read but taxing the rich more and giving that money to the poor is redistribution of wealth.

@ToolGuy
I think you should get off your high horse of reading books and stay in a classroom and libraries, not in the real world because you cannot relate a simple argument to life.

All nerdish words you are talking about have no use to real people in real life. None of what you said will make sense to real people. How nerdish can you get? Is there more? I hope not.

@ToolGuy
That is the problem. You have to talk to experts. I am asking you to leave the books and get into real life. It is refreshing. I have been an accountant but none of what you said made sense because you are bookish. Are all of your friends nerds like you? It won't surprise me if they are.

@St-Sinner So is taxing anybody and paying for a military but you don't appear to oppose that.How about subsidies to industry or farmers? Feeding the poor? That's socialism to the core.

@RonWilliam53
Don't stretch your imagination to call anything socialism. No matter what economic model you choose, defense is always the federal government's responsibility. That is exactly why Bernie is not winning . Lame logic and lame arguments.

@RonWilliam53 Some things such as feedinf the hungry is simply humanitarian which can be done by any form of government or without government involvement at all.

@DavidLaDeau o is defending the nation. As for sinner's comment about the job of the gummint to defend the nation,we spend more than the rest of the world combined. nly losses have been Korea, VietNam 9 /11, Iraq and Afghanistan. So far.

[wsj.com]

@Boxdoc Couldn't open the page but the WALL Street Journal of Rupert Murdoch might not be the most unbiased media source out there. I'm pretty sure they want the evil socialist public schools, libraries, fire and police departments, roads and the military privatised.

Bernie is hardly a socialist. He must be talking Chinese here that I did not understand. I am sorry.

You have not traveled to any socialist country yet, right? Maybe Cuba? It is Bernie's favorite society model.

@MrDragon
I don't support Trump but honestly I am more worried about the far left extremists like Bernie.

@St-Sinner you sure sound like you do, and just because Burnie likes Cuba's education system is far better than trumps great love and admiration of dictators. Besides, it would be the capitalist that would up the price of a roll of toilet paper from .69 cents a roll to $10.00's a roll.

@MrDragon
I have explained a few times before that you cannot pick and choose one thing in one system and want it in your society. If you like the health care and education in Cuba, you have to lose freedom and accept the government whip to do things they want. You have to lose a lot of other things. You can have clean streets if police can come to your house and whisk you away and you must drive a 1930's car all your life. You cannot access the internet in Cuba the freedom of which you are enjoying now.

You cannot want a few things in Cuba or Denmark or Sweden or Finland. We cannot have good things that neighbor has because we are not them. We have to first try to be good like are before wanting the things they have.

For example, we should to do a few things before wanting what they have:

1. Become more liberal
2. Become less religious
3. Treat women better than we have been
4. Improve civil rights and stop hatred of black Americans
5. Stop racism
6. Stop dropping out of school and having babies while in parents' homes
7. Elect a woman president
8. Loosen the corporate and lobbyists' grip over politics

Read more here = [agnostic.com]

@St-Sinner you just don't get it, and I'm not going to explain it to you, I haven't the time or the inclination to do so. So, in total response, you're way out in left field, and what ever.

Yes and we have examples of EPIC failures:

1. Social Security = Bankrupt, every year we hear about not having enough money and if the generations of tomorrow will have money for annuities in retirement
2. Post office - old, slow, inefficient, always in a loss, unattractive. Federal Express and UPS came from behind, offered similar services but got better, bigger and more efficient

Why do we want more socialism?

@St-Sinner FE & UPS took the easiest, most profitable routes & deliveries....who wouldn't?
SS , good program under attack from the Dem/ Reps. Again, SS is a program for everyone, and Americans don't want that... Just Socialism for the elites and capitalists.

Who would call SS an Epic failure anyway?

@St-Sinner Social Security seems threatened with bankruptcy precisely because the 1% were able to get congress to lower the cap on the income tax that pays for it. It's something like $130,000. The poor babies above that level need the money so they can sustain their elaborate life styles, at the expense of all the others. Raising that cap would fuel the system forever.
You cherry picked that one just like a cousin of mine too me that the presence of a single Snowy Owl, in Tennessee, one winter, some years ago, meant that not only was global warming a hoax, but THAT bird, alone ,was evidence of global cooling!

@St-Sinner 1. Social Security has problems because Americans are living longer and having fewer children and Baby Boomers (which there are a lot of) are all retiring. That means fewer people contributing to Social Security and more people taking from it. SS is not bankrupt by any means. SS is self funded and does not add the the federal deficit. SS is crucial to many people so it's very unlikely that it will ever be eliminated. There are some reasonable ways it can be fixed such as increasing retirement age or at worst they could cut benefits.

2. The problem with the USPS is that people and companies are using paper mail less and less plus they have more competition. Stating that the USPS is "old" is idiotic. It is slow, because, you know, things take time. No one has invented a new and instant way to transport packages yet. Also a big part of their debt is that they pay benefits to their retirees.

Many examples of corporate failures and bankruptcies can be made, many of which have cost YOU the TAXPAYER money to prop up failed companies and pay salaries to corporate executives plus the cost to consumers such as when the housing market collapsed and millions of people lost their homes while the banks and finance companies that made these loans ended up just fine. I guess you have your head in the sand when it comes to these things.

@St-Sinner Apparently you are not drawing any social security and do not want any either. Money was taken out of my check for this and that is why I am drawing it now. BTW, you can draw more than $8,000 per year. Do your homework.

@DenoPenno $8,000/ yr. Max? That doesn't sound right

@twill I'm directing this at the one who posted. I know people who draw $16,000 plus but St.Sinner appears not to know this.

@St-Sinner The government has borrowed from SS and gripes about it's cost because they don't want to pay it back

@DenoPenno

Am I missing something?

"The maximum monthly Social Security benefit that an individual can receive per month in 2020 is $3,790 for someone who files at age 70. For someone at full retirement age the maximum amount is $3,011, and for someone aged 62 the maximum amount is $2,265." [investopedia.com]

Has Bernie given you wrong ideas?

@St-Sinner My remark on your earlier social max at a little over $8,000 was what I was talking about. You made that statement then and had no clue. Now why would you think Bernie gave me bad ideas? It came from you and you were wrong.

@DenoPenno
hmm, I will look through posts again and respond. If I was wrong, I will apologize.

Very serious.

Come on, Spike. He's using an example of something that's happening in the USA. Under capitalism. He's killing his own argument. lol

@bingst
I am just trying to tell you to notice how socialism can look like that Bernie is a fan of. Shortages and anxiety are also common outcomes of socialism. Instead of most having something, nobody has anything.

@bingst I'm sure he's aware that sort of thing happens in a capitalist society, but it also happens in socialist ones as well. Regarding the panic over Covid-19, based on my observations so far it appears a good portion of those who are going into panic mode are those who do not support the President, as alot of those on the right appear to be rather laid back over it all (which I think is disturbing by the way, Covid-19 is a serious threat).

If honesty is really the aim for this post, personally I don't think either socialism or capitalism are responsible for the Covid-19 store rushes, the real culprit we should be blaming are people and the poor decisions they make that affect others. I get it you don't care for capitalism much, and I can agree with you on crony capitalism being bad, but the type of democratic socialism Sanders and other Democrats have in mind would not be what this country needs either. Quite a few failures in socialism too, our roads/infrastructure are nothing to brag about, the state and local police forces are corrupt, the military has gotten too big, Social Security and Medicare may go bankrupt by the mid 2030's, and the food stamp program is being abused. I'm to a point where I wonder if any system we humans think up will ever work for everyone and we can just all get along. I think a few points in the OP were a little over the edge, but I do agree with his underlying point.

@St-Sinner Or more to the point, in a strictly socialist society the people would get hardly enough of what they need to survive, as the government would solely control things.

@St-Sinner Just curious, do you like talking about politics and maybe engaging in debates on such? I know of a site (in fact it's a sister site to this one) that I'm active on that you might be interested in. This site isn't exactly conducive to holding discussions on politics, emotions tend to run high on here all too often.

@SpikeTalon
I am very interested in discussing politics especially when it comes to bread and butter issues. I got more active because we feel threatened by Bernie's socialism that will undo America's progress of 250 years. I felt the urge or resisting because we must make people aware as our civic duty. Every now and then, we get anti-social elements like McCarthy, Cheney and Bernie that must be stopped. What I can do for my country?

@St-Sinner I'll message you then when I get a chance, don't want to mention the site on a public thread.

@SpikeTalon

Thank you. I want to save people from socialism.

Please read this if we want what Sweden and Denmark have. We often cite those countries. = [agnostic.com]

Yes, it does, People panicked about being sent to Siberian gulag under Stalin. Socialism, communism produce panic, shortages and social anxiety is my point.,

@St-Sinner hey fool.. Read your own words...

I have explained a few times before that you cannot pick and choose one thing in one system and want it in your society. If you like the health care and education in Cuba, you have to lose freedom and accept the government whip to do things they want. You have to lose a lot of other things. You can have clean streets if police can come to your house and whisk you away and you must drive a 1930's car all your life. You cannot access the internet in Cuba the freedom of which you are enjoying now.

@St-Sinner If what you say is true, then one would expect to see no empty shelves, shortages or anxiety in the United States. A Representative or if you wish a Constitutional Republic that has a Capilalist economy. Unless you are suggesting that the United States is a Socialist country.

@DavidLaDeau

The capitalism has produced abundance in the United States. Often too much with a lot of wastage. This is just a result of people's panic who have been used to abundance all the time. I am saying this would be a regular feature under socialism.

@St-Sinner you're very ignorant comrade

@St-Sinner People panicked about being sent to concentration camps by capitalist Nazis. Blacks are afraid of being sent to jail by capitalist Americans. Americans are afraid of losing their houses to pay medical bills in capitalist America but not in socialist Cuba or Canada or pretty much every developed nation. Your point? Other than still living in the 1930s?

@RonWilliam53
My point is simple:

1. Socialism will not sell in America
2. A lousy messenger like Bernie cannot sell even a good message if he had one

Success deserves better things. Everybody can succeed here. Most rich in America were poor once. We cannot forget that. Hard working and succeeding are life choices. A government cannot give you that.

@St-Sinner In the book "The Millionaire Next Door", the highest financial success rate, most likely to become millionaires, among immigrants are the Russian Immigrants

@St-Sinner "Everybody can succeed here"
That is a fuckin pipe dream.

" Most rich in America were poor once. We cannot forget that"
Let me explain how that looks to me. "Most professional Football players were poor once, we cannot forget that.

AND YES we can forget that. If 1-20% of "america" is sucessful as you describe, that leaves 80% who do not become rich, but who dream about money and wealth all their life, and despite hard work and effort, they don't found Microsoft, or Amazon, Or Facebook.

"Hard working and succeeding are life choices."
Hard work is a choice, and your efforts at that increase your chances to becme rich. Sucess is not a choice, but the result of a lot of hard work, education, and fortunate turns of events (luck, networking connections, and so on).

Gov does not GIVE anything, its an exchange for taxes and effort.

This "Pipe Dream" is just like the hoop dreams of impoverished youths, they work hard to make it, the show dedication and devotion, but none of that gaurentees the NBA.

@Davesnothere

I succeeded, as an immigrant. If I was born here without an accent, I would have done far better. I did not even need to be white. Lol. Not to make light of the plight of the homeless, but the homeless in the U.S. look like the lower middle class in the land I came from. There are many levels of poverty. The first level of the poor have household servants.

If you complain about the prosperous land of the free and abundance, you should travel to one of the third world countries every year. I think you will like to return home and pay taxes happily after each trip. It is a human tendency to complain, no matter how much you have.

It reminds me of what my uncle used to say to his kids. One time my little cousin sister came complaining to her Dad and said ... Daaad! He said smilingly... "What happened Sweetie? Is too much comfort bothering you?"

That is what is happening to us. Bernie is one of them who is constantly complaining about the United States and instead of reforming what we have built, he wants to be like other countries. The funny thing is he wants all the good things this country gives me including his net worth of $2 Million.

@St-Sinner "I succeeded, as an immigrant."
Good for you, I am happy for you, honestly.

I am familiar with the third world and glad you escaped it. It is nice to be concerned for your new suit rather than working for a bicycle to ride a hour to get your daily water.

If you do not point out where our nation can improve, then it would never improve would it? We would still have a slave economy, that was prosperous to the few too was it not?

I do have a couple of points thpough. If you measure your sucess in $$$, does that require others to determine their sucess, especially if not chasing money? A rising tide lifts all ships.

As things stand we have enourmous wealth side by side with homelessness, and the wealthy ignore and blame the poor for the poverty the wealthy policies both inflict and increase the plight of the poor, the ill, the addicted.

Your life philosophy lacks basic ethics and empathy.

@Davesnothere

Yes, it can improve. The way it can is with reforms, not by turning the system upside down, ranting against it, wanting to be socialist. The message then does not sell.

Who does not want free and good things? Everybody does. But you do not punish one class of society to give free things to another.

You are not making a distinction between giving free things and empathy. Just because you have empathy, you would not start giving free things, would you? Especially taking from successful people and giving to the unsuccessful? I need something more intelligent, a better, sound plan. Robbing Peter to give Paul is Bernie's motto. People are not buying it.

@St-Sinner UH
WE ARE socialist. A representative Democrcy based on BOTH Capitalist and socialist IDEALS.

That fact that you immigrated IS a form of socialism.

YOU are misusuing or misunderstanding the term.
Public Hospital? SOCIALIST
POST OFFICE SOCIALIST
VA< POLICE< FIRE< EMERGENCY WORKERS?
Socialist

You are conflating communism (the state owns everything) with socialism. Socialism is not an economic system. Socialism are policies which can be attached to ANY market system, policies which ensure the CITIZEN is protected, and elevated in order to be a better worker.

PURE socialism (which no nation has or has ever had)
a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done.

NOT "a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs."

Since Bernie is a DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST, he is not advocating public ownership of private goods.

HE IS advocating for policies which would ensure "person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs"

Anyway, all I care about this cycle is #NOTTRUMP