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In the Atheist/Agnostic community, I'm thinking there are two main schools of thought on Jesus. 1) He never existed. 2) He existed but was just a man without any magic powers. Which school of thought do you belong to?

Wakenbaker 5 Dec 18
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0

There is not enough evidence to show that he existed. I was going to write an opinion here but but it is pretty easy for me to just agree with LenHazell53. Modern Evangelicals think that Paul was so great and he wrote a lot of the NT but my view is that Paul was the Antichrist. He promoted and practiced "woo" and never even met Jesus. Is this because that there was no Jesus to have met? The mystery of Paul and his views are similar to Constantine and the council out of which came our big book bible that so many today think is a beginning and an end to everything about mankind. It's totally preposterous!

6

I go from he never existed to I don't really know if the Biblical Jesus existed, but it's possible someone existed that did and said some things that were extraordinary for that time, but not as a super human/god, or son of God.

I think it's more probable that he was an amalgamation of myths that came before him, as others have pointed out.

Hello there,my name is Eric and I'm so sorry to intrude but I just joined this group and wanted to comment when I saw your profile,I really do hear of magic moments but when I saw your profile!!!it was the real magic moment for me,I hope you text after seeing my comment,have a nice and wonderful day ahead!

@Erickshinseki I don't believe in magic, and you are obvious.

4

I'm in the mythicist camp, so position 1.

However, as the sources are so scant, and the subject hard to determine either way, it remains an ongoing debate within Christology. What is clear is that the supernatural Jesus was purely an invention by later zealots. That's the real point.

4

I belong to neither school of thought. I am quite happy to "confess" my ignorance.

4

Yes there were a number of pretenders claiming to be the messiah in those times. Did events in their lives get recorded as that of Jesus? Maybe. We'll never know. We DO know that a great deal of the mythology of Jesus was plagiarized from other pre-existing myths. Subtracting the pre-existing content and what is left? Is any of the content meaningful? Historically, maybe? As a matter of meaningful fact, maybe not.

4

There is a third school of thought to which I subscribe, that being that the biblical Jesus is an amalgamation of the lives, deaths and stories of the eight claimants to the title of messiah or Joshua existing between 8 BCE and 60 CE.
Jesus of Nazareth as related in the four "official" gospels never actually existed, however the deeds and myths ascribed can each be ascribed to one or more of these eight, including the crucifixion, and the confusion of one with a subsequent pretender leading to a myth of resurrection.
The messiah claimed by Paul, was a fiction of his own imagining and a shameless cash in, by a man who seeing that his profiteering from persecution of the various "Christian sects" was going to pretty soon come and bite him in the ass, switched sides becoming instead the penitent prophet again profiteering from the mugs.

4

I think there is a 50/50 chance of him existing so take your pick. As for him being anything other than an ordinary man ?. No chance.

4

If you've got the time, this is an excellent explanation of the difference between who he was and how he's portrayed.

4

Bart Denton Ehrman (born 1955) is an agnostic atheist American New Testament scholar focusing on textual criticism of the New Testament, the historical Jesus, and the origins and development of early Christianity. He has written and edited 30 books, including three college textbooks. Wikipedia

Word Level 8 Dec 18, 2022

really interesting, thanks. I suspect he is exaggerating in his point that historical jesus existed is unanimously (he seemed to indicate) agreed in relevant areas of Academia, but I don't follow the issue that much.

I don't know whether historical jesus existed. While some other atheists do seem to have researched the matter in an unbiased way (regardless of what they conclude on this issue), I must say that some do seem biased to find that he did not exist, as this makes the rest of the debate with theists easier (i.e. he wasn't god, as he didn't exist). The real argument to my mind is, even if historical Jesus existed, he wasn't God, as there no evidence for him or any other entity having any sort of supernatural powers.

@kmaz our wonderful illogical atheist friend and brilliant biologist Richard Dawkins gives us the biological nature for Jesus style meme God organism that evolved to mimic homo sapien form. Meme is the biological nature, god is nomenclature for hierarchy position.

God semantics: Biblical "god" is a title nomenclature for something in position of hierarchy like king, president, ruler, valedictorian. The top position(s) in a hierarchy is the God position(s) for those things to be called gods.

It's like you call president Brandon, president for the position that he is in. President is not the essence of being but the position the essence of being is in.

Such to better understand Jesus style meme God organism.

The biological nature for Jesus of biblical text is meme. The meme was in God position.

Notice that Meme evolved to mimic homo sapien form; for which the people were already the gods. Meme is the biological nature for Jesus, not "god" position.

In the beginning was the meme organism, the meme organism was with God and was God. John 1:1

... the meme organism became flesh. John 1:14

Flesh gives birth to flesh, but meme organism gives birth to meme organism. John 3:6

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are achildren of the most High. Psalms 82:6

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods"’? John 10:34

Elohim translated into English as God:

The word is used for: the true God, false gods, supernatural spirits (angels), and HUMAN leaders (KINGS, JUDGES, the messiah).

https:// www.hebrew-streams. org/works/monotheism/context-elohim.html

@Word

I can't tell for sure if you're someone who just wants to throw a monkey wrench into conversation, but I did not understand what you said. Did you have an answer to the original poster?

I'm not denying that discussions of word meanings can be interesting, but in this case, I don't really have time, and have more or less defined my use of the word "God" in a way that is inline with the vernacular as I understand it (an entity that has some sort of supernatural powers).

@kmaz Yes, I was giving information pertaining to OP.
OP was talking about the biblical Jesus style meme God organism that evolved to mimic homo sapien form asking if the physical homo sapien form of Jesus actually exist as purported.

Your ideal of "god" may not be the same as the usage thru biblical text. And, supernatural from biblical text comes from greek pertaining to pneuma which has to do with breath. Meme, as coined by Dawkins, is passed in one means by speech, by force of breath.

3

Never Existed
Copycat Myth
I do believe there are more than this but it’s a nice little graphic I borrowed from somebody else

3

Whether he existed or not doesn't matter to me. Some of the stories have moral value and some are just way out there.

Betty Level 8 Dec 18, 2022

Awe, you mean to tell me that you disapprove of incest? How frightfully naughty of you. See Genesis 19:35-36. Hint: it's Lot and his two daughters. 😉 (Yes, I had to look it up.)

@anglophone Any man that puts his hands on his child with intent of receiving sexual pleasure should be drawn and quartered.

@Gwendolyn2018 That's some creepy stuff there.

Hello there,my name is Eric and I'm so sorry to intrude but I just joined this group and wanted to comment when I saw your profile,I really do hear of magic moments but when I saw your profile!!!it was the real magic moment for me,I hope you text after seeing my comment,have a nice and wonderful day ahead!

@Erickshinseki My profile is quite sparse. Please explain what you mean by "magic moment".

@Betty This Erickshinseki character said the exact same thing to RhondaShot at the top of this feed. Must be quite the operator!

@Wakenbaker To me it sounded like a pick-up line. I wasn't going to text him, it just seemed a little creepy.

3

I'm of the camp that I really don't care whether Jesus existed in the way he's portrayed in the bible, or if he's an amalgamation of similar characters or even a mythical figure created as a way to control the people for government purposes. However, I'm fascinated by the biblical scholars who have done the work, summarized their opinions and made available what they believe to be true about the historicity of Jesus, after their studies. I'm also fascinated by works such as "Caesar's Messiah" by Joseph Atwill, which has yet another take. All the stories seem plausible to me - but truth is - I really don't care what is true, since we can't know.

I'm too lazy to read everything possible to form an opinion of my own, but I do like the romanticism of what was said of Jesus, and perhaps also that he had the ear of the Mary Magdalene figure, who may have reflected back to him some of the more warm sentiments he may have taught, even though women weren't given the air time men had, I like to think that a more egalitarian religion may have been the intention, even though it was thwarted by the final compilers of the bible. Just a romantic notion I have.

It's all water under the bridge, and we will likely never know the answers. What was taught is not something that resonates with modern humanity, so I'm happy leaving it all in the past and moving forward with more pertinent human values and solutions for peace and harmony in the world. Christianity isn't it - for me anyway.

Hello there,my name is Eric and I'm so sorry to intrude but I just joined this group and wanted to comment when I saw your profile,I really do hear of magic moments but when I saw your profile!!!it was the real magic moment for me,I hope you text after seeing my comment,have a nice and wonderful day ahead!

2

There's really no difference between the two. "Jesus Christ the son of God" existing means that he had magical powers. If you're taking about someone who wasn't specifically that, then you're not really talking about anything more than one of the random of the hundred+ billion people that have lived.

2

I tend not to believe he existed. I he did exist he was probably an itinerant rabbi with little influence during his own lifetime.

2

I say he never existed, and neither does his daddy.

2

He never existed as portrayed in the bible.

1

He did not exist. If he had existed, a Roman philosopher would have mentioned him. None did.

1

I appreciate all the responses. I didn't expect so many, but I'm happy to see them. Thank you for your input, everybody!

1

Neither.

All crap is made up.

1
1

I have no reason to believe that he was anything other than a fictional character.

0

I would like to suggest a third possibility. Perhaps in that era there were many itinerant Rabbis some of whom were regarded as wise and prophetic. they became influential among the villagers.
Subsequent scribes wrote or told stories that were a composite of these men. Over time these stories were handed down through the generations and became the basis for the Jesus myth of the bible.

0

He was a human who existed but was a minor cult figure in Judaism. Josephus Flavius mentions Jesus in his history. Don't see why he would have if Jesus (Yeshua) never existed. Never understood why some people think it so super important to deny his existence as well as the legend. I don't deny that George Washington existed just because he didn't chop down a cherry tree or throw a dollar across the Potomac.

0

You've got to be joking - there is very little time in humans lives - why waste on such nonsensical speculation just get on with life & live.
You're a long time dead.

0

I think it was the beginnings of contact with more Eastern people and their philosophies through trade.

Hello there,my name is Eric and I'm so sorry to intrude but I just joined this group and wanted to comment when I saw your profile,I really do hear of magic moments but when I saw your profile!!!it was the real magic moment for me,I hope you text after seeing my comment,have a nice and wonderful day ahead!

0

Probably a fictional character.

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