I think an email/ text/messenger way of communicating is fraught with difficulties. Typing on my tiny phone screen is annoying. But this is the best we have for people who are scattered across continents. I've had some good messaging and some that is difficult to make out because of sentence structure or spelling. I guess we just have to keep on trying

Yes, which is one reason I am not a member of this interest group. Since the run-up to the 2016 election, and the polarization that was revealed then, and which continues, many people have come to believe that people on the other side of the fence are evil and stupid. Many people don't have any qualms about denigrating another person; in fact, many are proud of it. Perhaps you should pull together some rules on how to engage in debate and then boot people who cannot live within the rules.

Sorry you feel this way. I'm a British communist so thought I might encounter hostility on this mainly American populated site. Not so - I read some very interesting, humane and considerate pieces here and frequently laced with some very witty remarks. One of the problems with attempting to discuss social or political matters is that immature people will make it personal and turn the 'discussion' into a war of words using inflammatory language and dragging 'facts' out of thin air to 'score' some 'victory'. Usually, I can suss out this type pretty quickly and leave them to rant alone in their own little corner. Don't be disheartened - maybe you haven't met the right ones on here yet.

I personally do not feel that I am well informed on political and social issues to have the conversations that you are referring too and I am at the age now that I really do not give that much thought to it. I am a bleeding heart liberal politically and socially. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

It's difficult, but not impossible.
Please hang in there.

I'm no fan of his but I am getting tired of so many posts getting sidetracked by irrelevant Trump slams.

I get the feeling that the current zeitgeist has centered around a very us vs. them model. And some of it is that a lot of groups who have been legitimately marginalized by 'the system' are finally reaching population numbers and social infrastructure capabilities be able to start speaking with a collective voice that can be heard on a large enough platform. I do not use air quotes for 'the system' to deride that ideology, but to establish that I am using it as a collective term for the system-level paradigms that are viewed as needing to change. For me to attempt to define or extrapolate further than this would derail the conversation entirely and would not be done as properly as I would like. To some extent, the parenting trends intended to replace the somewhat toxic and psychologically problematic parenting styles of the past seemed to overcompensate in the other direction, and there does seem to be a much higher 'snowflake' factor post 1990s. I think a lot of people got too caught up in 'I'm special' to remember that 'so is everyone else.' Some of it is the 'privelige population' sees this attempt at change as an attack, as some means of trying to lay them low. And the rhetoric is part of the issue. No one likes to hear themselves demonized, and attempts to understand may be interpreted poorly, or may actually be inadvertently inappropriate. Discourse has become a nuclear minefield, because people are speaking from the place of their passions, and the more in-depth and abstract and intricate the discourse, the less passion and pathos have a real place. Some people would state that 'arguing in a vacuum is pointless' but I believe that it is beneficial to the process to engage in debating the merits and issues of something with as few variables as possible, and then applying variables in layers to gain a better understanding of the interplay between those layers and variables. One of the chief problems with our government as a whole in the US, in my mind, is that it's a machine, with roots in the potential efficiency of bureaucracy, that's been running consistently for a long time, and any repairs or maintenance of that machine must be done without the machine ever actually stopping completely. But that is the cost of relative stability, I suppose. I also am not a fan of party politics, but those have been heavily polarized for longer than I've been alive. In the end, this would historically classify as a time of unrest, I suppose, and people are taking their opportunities (or sometimes making them) to fight back, to engage in battles with microcosms of the They.

Agree, however we ought to keep trying...

I recommend discussing important stuff like whiskey, cigars, guns, and women.
Leave religion and politics to, as you pointed out, the True Believers.

I'm becoming fairly negative about the idea of effective discourse. Few people want to understand other views.

I think people need to strive to understand other views, An educated mind can comprehend a concept without embracing it....It's also good to acknowledge validity even if what's correct is surrounded by FAKE NEWS or utter illogic.

I also think it's essential to criticize your own side. It seems like both sides of every issue just get more extreme and many arguments are basically strawman idiocy discussing the extremes. We protect our tribe, even when they're wrong and defy the "enemy" even if they're right.

I think there's some factual criticism for both sides of every issue, even issues I agree on.

Twenty years ago I was definitely a liberal, but thanks to extremists and not criticizing our extremists, I now say I'm just a left-leaning moderate. It's odd though, bc my core stances haven't really changed.

It seems that logic has fallen to the wayside against emotion. Not to demerit the value of either one, yet to place either above the other is a sure fire way to incite dissent.

Take for instance our lack of belief. Some are fueled by the logical deduction that none of the theological explanations make any sense. Others are fueled by the emotional realization that they've been, basically, lied to their entire life.

The logical view of this takes into account the emotional factor of deceit. The emotional side takes into account the logical reasoning of justifying that they have indeed been lied to.

Debate can seem shallow at its worst at times, yet I equate that to the "debate" between Ham and Nye. Not all debates are fairly balanced, and often times they're quite predictable.

Not all people are able to be "fair debaters", and to me that's par for the course in this wild game of life.

Nuh, education systems and the fourth estate discourage logical thought to the extent that religiosity pervades discourse across issues. So one has to learn to deal with cognitive distortion and fallacious logic.

Yes. Very difficult to talk with anyone who is sure their ignorance is superior to mine.

Especially when i know i am correct.

I try to remain neutral on here when it comes to politics, but some take things too far and that's when I speak up. If by chance you are referring to the recent spat I had with someone on the Senate Community group, I apologize if anything I said offended you and or caused you to question this site, as you seem to be a decent guy.

I hear you...

I'm assuming (lol you know what assuming does) is left of center and believes in GCC, GLBTQ equality, pro-choice....

Just one idiot's opinion, but if you can't factually criticize anything you endorse and usually find SOMETHING valid in those you disagree with, then I'd say you're extremely biased.

Has anyone seen the Tedtalk about the Black guy who infiltrated the alt-right and even some racist groups? If a black man can see some validity in outright racists, why can't we strive to understand those we disagree with?

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.". Aristotle.

You know the "Intellectual Dark Web"? It's a bunch of people who aren't afraid to talk about stuff that gets panties in a bunch.

It totally shouldn't be a thing. But it is.

Most political and social conservatives have forgotten what the term "civility" means-- if they ever knew.

Honestly, I get a lot of out good, honest debate. I live in a sea of red with gun toting, Christian cowboys and ranchers. Some of them are some of the best people I know...and we have had some amazing talks and debates. I still respect them, they respect me...but you can't have that when you start out by saying "those prople" or "libtards" or "Trumpanzees." If you have no respect for people going into a debate, it isn't going to go well...

There is no grey area with me. If you are a Trump supporter, then you are also a supporter of sexual assault and sexual deviance. Since the Bus crap that he spewed, I've been disgusted by him and anyone that associates themselves with him. If you support Trump, then you, by association and support of him, support the bigotry, sexual deviancy, hypocrisy, misogyny, narcissism, homophobia, incompetence, lying, filth, idiocy, racism that he belies. There is no middle ground. If you like Trump, then you are also all of these things by association. Shame on anyone that's "OK" with this douchebag or anyone he has working for him (including the Russians.)

So, yeah...I don't have "civil discourse" with sexual deviants or anyone that aligns themselves with it. It's not political either...it's HUMAN. If you support Trump, then you're a maggot just like him. And yeah, I know this comment will probably offend Trump supporters and I'm A-OK with that. Stop supporting a bug that's lower than a maggot, and I'll stop hating your alliance with said creature.

Most of us has some bias or another.... if all we want is like minded conversations to affirm some personal belief system then we are only preaching to the converted and that can be stultifying....

Ok brother... tell me more.

I go through the same thing off and on...it may have a lot to do with where we are emotionally at a given time. We may be looking for something that may or may not be found here or any where else, except a therapist’s couch! Maybe it has something to do with living through many phases of social orders and seeing how destructive some phases seem more so, than others! We need reassurance that the world is not REALLY falling apart! Then we try and have an in depth discussion and find other people appear to be scattered, in their knowledge and wisdom! This is my perception...

I have never been as worried, sickened, disgusted, and discouraged as I am since Trump was elected. Every day brings a new low. I know so many people who voted for him, who I have always thought of as thinking, educated, and had some common sense, but, I can't believe that they are caught up by a maniac leading a cult that only exists to get him adoration and power. I am not saying republican vs democrat. Trump is neither. He is a Trumpist who sucks up to anyone who will give him the required toadying and worship him. That is his only agenda. He is an empty shell and has no moral compass. I have never had any of this worry and loathing for any other Republican, even though I disagree with their agenda. They seemed to have had some moral compass, some intelligence, and wanted to serve the United States. So, I will never make nice or respect Trump. He doesn't deserve it or has not earned it. He has earned disgust, and that is what he will get from me. If we don't stand up against this evil, our country will fall. It doesn't matter what political party you are aligned with. He is dangerous.

In my travels I have engaged with many people and always try to start off at a person-person level on topics of mutual interest and consequently have met people where there is two-way respect, despite our differences of opinions or beliefs. Not always easy because many people are just natural opinionated bigots and best thing to do with those is simply quietly move on. At one stage I even engaged in on-line conversations in an ultra right wing group, very dangerous territory if you are a big mouth. Yet at times I actually managed to calm the waters by listening, analysing and putting things in terms they related to. Not something I would recommend for the faint hearted but it was a mildly rewarding experience.