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LINK The rise of post-truth liberalism -

There is a lesson here. The belief that liberal values are on “the right side of history” is a confession of faith, asserted against an accumulating body of evidence. Liberal societies are by-products of western monotheism, which underpinned the practice of toleration with the belief that it was mandated by God. Generations of secular thinkers have attempted to detach liberalism from its theistic base. (John Gray)

Matias 8 Sep 7
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11 comments

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1

I always thought liberal societies were the product of secular rule of law. Countries who, like America, put a wall between church and state are the most liberal. Aren't they?

Since when does God mandate toleration for liberal values?
If that was true shouldn't countries with hardcore religious populations be more liberal than USA?

2

Mr. Gray makes the fundamental mistake of assuming modern western liberalism to be monolithic. I doubt that a majority of liberals, much less all, view Putin's meddling as more than a symptom rather than a prime cause. The author makes a similar mistake when he assumes that no liberals realize that western democracies are artificially floating on a raft of unsustainable debt. The article is full of such nonsense. He paints with a brush too broad.

3

Yuck article, and that's my professional opinion. The author would be better placed if he wrote an article called "The rise of anti truth anti liberalism reactionary conservatism". At one point he writes:

"Relieved from any responsibility for the debacles they have presided over, the liberal elites that have been in power in many western countries for much of the past 30 years"

Where? The US? I don't think so. The UK? Hardly. Here in Australia we've had mostly national right wing governments. Europe? It's been a mix bag.

It's right wing, economic rationalist, free market conservatism that has been in power mostly over the past 30 -40 years, and it's the poisonous fruit from this debacle and travesty of an ideology that we are currently facing.

The article is a combination of bad history and ideological distortion.

@Deiter oh yes, Nazism was not defeated forever in 1939-1945, just that form of highly militaristic racist nazism, and it has since evolved and mutated like the evil meme that it is. It is a sad fact that too many people claim to want freedom and liberty, but crave authoritarian figures to rule over them. Perhaps it is because liberty and freedom requires effort, intellectual effort, and a commitment to being knowledgable and questioning and critical. Easier to believe an authority with all the "answers". Just like religion.

This right left blame game is exactly the problem in the US today. There is no difference in establishment parties! the system is corrupt. We all know it. Instead of saying "it's Reps/Dems" we need to realize it's the establishment v the people and unite to fight it. We can sort out what we don't agree on democratically once the system has been restored.

3

i will add, in response to many of the other responses i see here, that there are no more conservatives. i didn't like their way of thinking when they existed but they no longer exist. now we have liberals/progressives and we have regressives. the regressives, who claim they have conservative values, are profligate and corrupt, and the only thing they're interested in conserving is their own personal wealth and power.

g

yes, and it disgusts me. VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE

1

Regressive leftism has hijacked the liberal narrative. We need to return to classical liberalism, which values independent thinking, individualism, and compassionate capitalism.

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This article is pure convoluted tripe. It reads like a justification for cynical and aggressive greed and authoritarianism. I would not be surprised if it were written by one of the Russian disinformation agencies. Modern liberal thought has nothing to do with religion. Authoritarianism is largely rooted in total system ideologies like religion and communism.

@jorj Typical of a right-wing reactionary -- make false accusations against people they don't like.

1

Another attempt to justify the god thang. The practice of science have always been without the need for a creator. The enlightenment was a clear example of learning in the face of god.
The religionists repeated claim their god was there first.
All the preachers and apologists just spin shit from gold . And claim it's the glory of god.

1

Lots of people who claim to be liberals don’t have any liberal characteristics. They tend to be snarly, condescending, arrogant, judgmental and pessimistic to the point of seeing just about every societal condition as ugly, unjust, and in need of reformation to their proper standards.

There might be a few who aren’t that way. I like Obama and Bill Clinton for example. Jimmy Carter too. Some of our most popular conservatives have been the most liberal IMO, Colin Powell e.g. The two sides are not mutually exclusive.

2

haha...somebody is butt hurt.
I am not sure I understand this liberalism he speaks of. I am for more socially progressive political stances favoring health and education. A healthy educated population will always win...no matter which party is in charge

0

Opinions are sometimes interesting to hear or read and we all have opinions.

3

uh... none of this is actually true, but it sounds all real and well thought out, doesn't it?

g

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