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Can a moderate have a place in this agnostic site? I am very liberal in some ways, and conservative in others. I am also 1/16 Cherokee. I am am starting to feel I have more in common with the theist.

Leutrelle 7 Feb 10
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Which theist? anyway, we're all different. the only thing we have in common is that we don't believe there are any gods or we believe there are no gods. everything else is just the normal variation one might find among theists, atheists or whomever. what is it you think you have in common with theists, and do theists all have it in common with each other?

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Most users on this site are moderates.

Jnei Level 8 Feb 11, 2018
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Many would probably consider me moderate. I've been an atheist republican, libertarian, and independent, but for mostly scientific and academic reasons, I have to stand with democrats for now, but past that, I'm for whatever works regardless of what political group it comes from. Sometimes I direct my aggression at arguments and people think that I'm directing it at them or their ideas. Bad arguments get under my skin, not proposals, conclusions, or people.

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That's what I love about being agnostic... it's a big tent with lots of options. That being said, I personally draw the line with Deepak Chopra. 😉

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I call myself a progressive yet I would not support a ban on guns. I am also for the death penalty in cases where there is no doubt of guilt and little likelihood of rehabilitation. I'm talking serial killers and cold blooded murder here, not people convicted on the unreliable eye witness testimony.

I am pro immigration and think the dreamers should stay but I also think immigrants need to learn English

I support health care for all, affordable higher education, most social programs although I think soda, chips, candy etc should not be permitted on EBT but toilet paper and fem hygiene should.

Pro choice, pro equal rights, pro marijuana

I am not so sure that businesses should pay an 80% tax as much as the loopholes that allow them to pay NO tax should be closed. If they do business here, they need to be taxed here

I'm sure I will think of the rest after hitting submit but you get the idea.

I agree with a lot of this -- except the death penalty. You have a really good point about toilet paper and tampons. I agree that those necessities should be part of EBT. But, not allowed soda, chips, candy, etc.......I'm not crazy about that. I'd have to give it a lot more thought, but I think it's demoralizing enough to need the help, but then to have society be your dietician. These are top of my head thoughts. Not fully-considered. Interesting.

@BlueWave I was on food stamps as a child and those things were not permitted. because they were not healthy. They can still have candy and chips but must pay for them with their paycheck. Those unhealthy eating habits are costing us way too much money since people on food stamps are often on Medicade as well and their food related health issues impact all of society

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I posted already to this thread saying: It depends on what you mean by "moderate." To expand, I probably am not what most people would consider a moderate. Most would perhaps consider me a "radical" but from my perspective, of course, I'm a moderate. It is a VERY relative term.

I am open to all views and viewpoints as long as I am not condemned for my own. That being said, I often am. So that tends to put me on the defensive rather quickly and it is a learned behavior from years of dealing with people.

If you are speaking of religion I am very tolerant of theists. Again as long as they don't force it on me, I'm actually somewhat jealous of them. I wish my life and universe could be that simple.

As for politics, I'm a cynic. I've not held the "mainstream" view for most of my life and, while I would say that my positions have been vindicated by what are now historical events, I still find myself outside most of mainstream thought. I guess it is hard to label myself a "moderate".

Further, I believe that discussing political questions vigorously is essential. The situation is much too dire to leave it unspoken. So I support strong political discussions. We are facing several ongoing crises. Not the least of which is that Orange clown king and his minions in the Reptilian (oops, I mean republiCON) party.

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Anyone can have a place in Agnostic. It is open for discussion. Hopefully it will open your mind to other points of view. You will not be well received if you are here to proselytize however, but have a go at it at your peril.

I'm agnostic, just politicly center.

@Leutrelle You state that you have more in common with theist so I assume that you are agnostic theist and that is perfectly acceptable.

@jlynn37 Politicly I have more in common with a theist. I did not write the question well. I with I could have a do over🙂

@Leutrelle No problem at all my friend and welcome to Agnostic

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If your socio-political stance comes from intellect and reason, rather than from a religious perspective, then people here will be willing to listen to and ,possibly, debate with you on your views. But if you quote some holy scripture as your reason for feeling a certain way or doing a certain thing, this may not be the place for you. People are people wherever you go, so you're going to meet plenty of dicks here, just like anywhere. Also, no matter where you go, you have to have the strength to stand up for your convictions because there are always people out there who will rabidly, violently disagree with you... just ask any atheist who told a group of Believers that he/she didn9believe that gods were real. We get attacked all the time. This place should be a safe place for Doubters and Non-believers. Is that you? If so, stick around. Make some coffee. Read some posts and see what people are thinking. Engage in the conversation... just like this one here 😉

Ya I am a doubter, which defines as agnostic.

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I'm confused as to why you would think you "don't fit in" here on the basis of politics, when this is not a political forum. It's not a forum for "left leaning liberals" so why does it matter if you're not one?

Have you been attacked for your views? Block, report, and/or stop talking politics.

Can't stand to read content that isn't addressed to you but denegrates your beliefs? Stop frequenting those categories, block those users, grow a thicker skin, or stop using this site.

People talk politics. Everywhere. You can't stop them. At the bar. In line at the post office. On agnostic.com. Get used to it.

People bash Trump. Everywhere. They won't stop. The guy has said and done some really questionable things (to put it mildly). He's exhibited behaviors and attitudes that strike many people as unbecoming for the leader of the free world, if not signals of fully-qualified incompetence. He's the President, the Commander in Chief. People are going to talk about it--rightfully so. If that bothers you... then there's more going on than advice in a comment on an internet forum can hope to address.

Just because most non-religious evidently skew left-liberal doesn't mean you have to be left-liberal to "fit in" with the non-religious.

If you feel like people are attacking you when they attack ideas and attitudes you hold, you'd be well served to look deeply at that.

Rather than rush to judgement, I thought I would seek conformation of my belief that this group is rather leaning hard to the left. It makes sense, we are the different ones. We don't follow the popular trail. With that being said I wonder why I am not a left winger? I have the agnostic thinking, but I think different politicly. Being new to exposure to other agnostics, and atheists I found myself curious of how people would think of me as being a political centrist.

I have found this site to be most kind with very few exceptions.

@Leutrelle You got the confirmation of that which you were fishing from @themiddleway.

Just my own opinion and observation -- the views you have stated also "lean left." So, that dirty "left" word applies to you more than you think. 😉

@Leutrelle I used to be very conservative until I started talking to humanists and other non-believers. But still I know a few atheists that are not very left.

@BlueWave I am well aware that I am not a staunch conservative. I have some very liberal ideas.

@Leutrelle My point was that, although you call yourself centrist and seem to really not want to be lumped in with "lefties," you already are pretty far left of center.

If you told me ONLY your views on the political issues you mentioned, and you did NOT tell me where you see yourself on the spectrum, to ME, you would be liberal or strongly left leaning.

The way you said "I am very well aware...." suggests to me that you were annoyed with me and think I was informing you of your own personality and views. That is not the case at all. Instead I was sharing with you, how I view the political spectrum. To me, and I am sure others in the world, you are strongly left leaning and not centrist.

In any event, I am glad you got the confirmation you were seeking from TheMiddleWay and that you still feel welcome here. Cheers!

@BlueWave The radial left from what I see are haters, and I am not. We can have difference with out anger and hate.

@Leutrelle Yeah, there are definitely a lot of stopping points on the spectrum. Radical left is pretty far to the left, just like radical right.

I'm not sure and I wonder if you are saying that you have found yourself surrounded by angry hateful radical leftists on Agnostic.com?

@BlueWave I don't know what % of members on this site are angry, but I would be liar to say that I haven't read many angry comments. No I don't feel surrounded by the angry left, but I do feel there are many good people that balance things out.

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I would say it all depends on the issues you are "conservative" on.

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everyone is welcome

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I'm a Libertarian. Glad you have joined the group.

BD66 Level 8 Feb 10, 2018
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Guess it is pretty much up to you. I consider myself to be a moderate or more to the center. In politics want us to operate in the middle. Don't want either party controlling, more of we are in this together than the us and them. I am economically conservative, and operate on a tight budget. No deficit spending. I am socially liberal, don't want to be bedroom police. Live and let live, just don't mess up my or our space. Consider myself atheist and a humanist. I don't hold too tightly to definitions. It is not black or white, but many shades of grey. I have not been attacked on any of my comments. Like to share my view, and glad to listen to other views. Am a work in progress, and willing to change my mind, as don't know everything.

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I tend to be a-political in my views. In that I see the hypocrisy and humbug emanating from both sides. Although this site is largely US based it has members range from all over the world. Whilst it true that us heathens tend to via towards the left, I have met some Trump supporters here too.

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You feel what you feel. I'm a moderate centrist, and I feel fine here.

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The only commonality I have found among non theists is the lack of theism. Beyond that they reflect the larger society and run the spectrum.
Are you conflating Politics and Theism?

I am guess I was saying that politicly I have more in common with a theist, but I do enjoy this site, so it is really a non issue. I guess i wanted to see how it felt to come out of the closet🙂

@Leutrelle Need sunglasses?

@Davesnothere Funny🙂

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Ok. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I'll try to tone it down some. Most of my conservative friends are blatantly outspoken Catholics/Evangelists or if they are not outspoken they are quiet Christians. We are in uncharted territory here.

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I’m a moderate too and I have a place here

and a beard

You just want to grab me by my beard and kiss me. Admit it!@btroje

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I'm politically conservative, but socially liberal. I have found that some people here accept that, and others outright dismiss me because of my conservative views.

I have watch you fiercely debate🙂 Brovo

Thank you, I've spent years honing my craft.

@jayneonacobb Frankly I am not so sure what folks mean by those terms anymore. I used to, but not anymore.
Many Conservatives will speak the word Liberal with Venom, or twist it into something else like "libtard", when a Liberal is really a person who supports, endorses and defends the principal of Liberty; The ability to live ones life as one sees fit to live it.
Which strikes me as a conservative value.
Many Liberals will do the very same thing to conservatives, conflate Cons with Convicts with criminal with a lack of human compassion. When the term originally meant people who wanted to preserve American Social Values and demanded fiscal responsibility (not anymore in this GOP)

NOW it seems to me that news outlets and BOTH parties work day and night to keep Red hating Blue and Blue hating Red by turning up the heated rhetoric on certain hot topics, while ignoring their own core values. This only works to keep Americans fighting Americans, and is the core of a Divide and Conquer tactic. It is much easier for a wealthy Oligarchy to keep the masses in check if they blame each other rather than realize it is a tiny minority who is lording it over them all.

E Plurubus Unum terrifies modern politicians.

@Davesnothere I agree, modern American politics is a two headed snake. The difference between a liberal and a conservative is that the liberals tend to want a large government with a smaller military.

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Everyone is welcome here, your politics are fine.

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Give up the labels and think things through for yourself. Believe the things that you discover for yourself to be true and question the rest until you get the answers you need.

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Sure you have a place here. I've met conservative and libertarian atheists. I've met atheists who didn't come to atheism via skepticism, who believe in various unsubstantiated things, etc. All atheism is, is a label for people who see no valid reason to believe in even one god. Other than that ... knock yourself out.

Some atheists have expressed to me over the years that they feel a lot of common cause with theists, particularly theologically liberal ones, although those also tend to be politically liberal too. Because they are not authoritarian, don't lead with doctrine, but with good works. And they are generally not interested in proselytizing, so it's live and let live.

The two things religion is actually good for in concept is community and refuge. It creates a huge shared experience to coalesce around and develop interpersonal commitments, and it's truly family-friendly unlike arguably their closest analog, which is some styles of lodges / secret societies. There's even a post-Christian denomination, the Unitarian / Universalists, who accept open atheists and have a non-creedal approach to "religion".

Atheism is a very narrow position on a single topic, and by nature of our minority position in very religious host societies, we tend to naturally select for non-joiners and iconoclasts. But nothing says an atheist has to be liberal or anti-theist or anything else. Be yourself.

Well done, I like frame those words🙂

@Leutrelle In all cases your always welcome at my lodge

Agreed. A-theist can believe ANYTHING they want, they just can NOT believe in a god(s).

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Depends on how you define "moderate"

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I am moderate and have good friends on both sides. I can't stand the current president but I think that's the general consensus of Americans.

You may right, I may crazy😉

@Leutrelle But it just may be a lunatic you're looking for. 😉

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Maybe you do have more in common with theists. Whatever your opinion, if you're willing to stand by it, say it. If you're not willing to stand by your opinions under scrutiny, then don't share them with atheists. We're all about debate.

I have to politely disagree on your last sentence. I find a lot more cordial, good-natured conversations and sharing of ideas and views, than I do actual debates. Yes, there are debates here from time to time. But mostly just friendly conversations, in my experience. I know that I, personally, am not at all here "about debate." I'm here for community -- hanging out -- being 'round like-minded peeps in one way or another. -She says with 187 cry face emojis because she lives in the middle of the bible belt red sea.-

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