@Marionville

"You look like a victim," Stuart said in January 2019. I met him through Fitness Singles.

"I don't feel like a victim!" I protested. "I walk fast with good posture, head up, shoulders back, scanning around, and never look in my purse or at my phone while walking."

"Because you are thin, you look easy to grab," he replied.

This chilled me to my soul.

@LiterateHiker How did you respond to that?

@Marionville

Didn't you read my response? Also, I told Stuart I don't want to see him again.

@LiterateHiker No...I didn’t see a response to “because you are thin, you look easy to grab”. Of course you told him you didn’t want to see him again, you were chilled to the soul you said...not conducive to making another date! I was just interested to hear what your reply was to his remark.

@Marionville

This is what I wrote. I replied:

""I don't feel like a victim!" I protested. "I walk fast with good posture, head up, shoulders back, scanning around, and never look in my purse or at my phone while walking."

@LiterateHiker j. Yes...I got that...I wanted to know how you responded to him when he said to you “because you are thin, you look easy to grab”.

@Marionville

"That chills me to my core. What a terrible thing to say."

@LiterateHiker Yes I understand that it, would chill anyone, but did you not say anything to him after he made that appallingly sinister remark?

@Marionville

"You look easy to grab," he said.

"That chills me to my core. What a terrible thing to say!"

@LiterateHiker I get it...that’s what you said to him.....sorry Kathleen I think I’m slow on the uptake tonight because I’ve got a bit of temperature, and I’ve been doctoring myself with paracetamol and a hot whiskey amongst other things! Off to bed now.

The problem is these perps will often target minors or young women (or those they deem young women or underage) and at those ages, especially the teen years, not many of us have reached the confident and self-assured stage.... and when you are victimized by a guy at a young age, it stays with you for years and years and takes even longer to develop that self-assurance and confidence. :/

@LiterateHiker There is actually psychological cases of former victims intentionally gaining weight to try and prevent further/future victimization in hopes of making themselves unattractive to men. :/

@demifeministgal

True. My old friend, Kathy, says she became obese to repel men.

@demifeministgal I understand that...however I was talking from a personal perspective. I acknowledge that everyone is not as confident as me, but I was once young too, and as I’m old now, it was when I was a younger woman than I was referencing regarding this situation, when you get to my age it’s unlikely that you’ll be the target of men’s unwanted attention, unless they’re after your money!

@Marionville yes many old(er) ladies tell me this and it is why physically ageing does not scare me because I welcome this supposed invisibility I will gain... not that I am even street harassed that often to begin with (due to clothing choices) but the seldom times it does happen is enough for my anxiety to go off. I wonder if neurotypical people handle street harassment and intimidating men better than neurodiverse people >.>

@demifeministgal I should imagine that could be the case....self esteem and confidence play a large part in how we react to intimidating behaviour in men. Predatory males can probably sense insecurities and vulnerability in women making them easy targets. There are certain men who actually like a challenge and prefer to target stronger, less vulnerable women, a lot depends on the predator too.

@LiterateHiker Your friend is a liar!

You've also been lucky. Luck has a lot to do with it. This is not to demean your own skill at fending someone off, but even the most self-assured, assertive women can end up in the wrong place at the wrong time.

@Atheist3

Why did you say my friend is a liar? You don't know her.

@MsMagoo I recognise that...but was only talking about my own personal experience, which luckily didn’t include any really nasty situations.

@LiterateHiker Because it sounds like a rationalization. A defensive coping mechanism to protect one's self esteem.

@Atheist3

What sounds like a rationalization and defensive mechanism?

@LiterateHiker The statement, "I'm obese because I fon"t want to be hit on by men". It provides justification for one"s inability to control one's unhealthy physical condition. Hey, if someone is happy being overweight, that's a different question. I've never met an obese person like that tho. They're just resigned to their current condition. Hence, they have to rationalize.

@deb57 that is terribly depressing..

Based upon what I have seen and heard, most women just go through life expecting this kind of abuse to come from somewhere, at some time or another. Unlike men, we are never allowed to forget that being alone means potential danger; darkness means potential danger; outside means potential danger; abandoned hallways, alcoves, elevators, recessed areas, and wide open spaces all mean potential danger. We have to constantly work hard at not being prey.

@BestWithoutGods

That would never work.

"You look like a victim," Stuart said in January 2019. I met him through Fitness Singles.

"I don't feel like a victim!" I protested. "I walk fast with good posture, head up, shoulders back, scanning around, and never look in my purse or at my phone while walking."

"Because you are thin, you look easy to grab," he replied.

This chilled me to my soul.

@LiterateHiker It works for me. If ever anyone shows interest in me, I point to my wedding ring and tell them that I am a faithful husband.

Perhaps you can just tell people that you're not available. You don't have to be engaged or married, just take yourself off the market.

@LiterateHiker there is nothing a woman can do to discourage the initial advance. the initial advance has nothing to do with logic -- oh, she's engaged, leave her alone -- because it has more to do with power than love or sex anyway. but there is a lot a woman can do to discourage or even injure someone who does make an unwanted advance (i don't mean we should injure someone who comes up and says "hey babe" but things can escalate!) one thing is to have a nice loud voice and say NO! GET LOST! within earshot of other people. another is to have a knee handy and well aimed. if the latter is not yet warranted, i have a good line i devised long ago which might sound threatening enough: "you take your hands off me or i'll take your hands off you." try to look as if you're able to follow through on that. even better, BE able to follow through on that. but the sad truth is, it shouldn't be the woman's responsibility to prevent advances and attacks. it should be the man's responsibility not to be an attacker. remember, the police are out there too. call them. file a complaint. don't make excuses for jerks. oh, and being grabbed is not an advance. it's an assault. "wanna go out?" and grope grope grope are not of equal seriousness.

g

@BestWithoutGods

Rape is a crime of power, not sex.

Psychologists have found that the motivation behind sexual assault is most often the need to dominate and control, rather than the inability to control sexual urges.

@LiterateHiker Okay, my suggestion has limited usefulness. You also need self-defense, and yell loud enough to bring others to your defense. And you need the wisdom to not get into a position where evil men can take advantage of you. There are many approaches. Mine may be one of the weaker ones. Sorry!

That’s what I do!

@BestWithoutGods If only it were so easy to spot said evil men. "where evil men can take advantage of you". If they had a tattoo stamped on to their heads it would help. So we just need to be vigilant with all strange men until they show us they can be trusted. :/

It has been my experience that rapists don't care if their victim is engaged.

You haven't?

@Garbonza

Not "unwanted".......

When I was married I would say "I'm married". If that did not work it was time to "embellish"..... "My wife is pregnant again". Still not enough.... "This will be our 9th, do you like kids?".... That always cleared the space....

@moosepucky So you were advanced on, then had to give an excuse to escape the unwanted advance. Not uncommon for men, I think.

@Garbonza when unattached or for the 8 years I was in a polyamorous relationship, there was no such thing as "unwanted attention". I was frightened on more than one occasion and wondered "what have I done now", but even that was not "unwanted". Out of my control, yes, but still not something I would consider unwanted.

@moosepucky That's the difference in semantics between men and women, plus the gap in "adventurousness" between the sexes -- on average. I don't believe there are any typical cases. Women are more frightened, and obviously for good reason, but all men end up getting labeled because of what I'm guessing is a tiny minority.

@racocn8

The YMCA is not a wacko cult. I worked as a YMCA executive director and program director for over eight years in Seattle and Tacoma, WA.

As a volunteer, I raised money for youth scholarships for low income children for the Wenatchee Valley YMCA, WA.

@LiterateHiker The YMCA is aligned with Christianity, which is a wacko cult, albeit a big one. The YMCA is a mere extension; it is content with keeping the name, Young Men's Christian Association, none of which remains valid, except the bias towards Christianity. Christianity is anti-Truth, anti-reality and anti-sanity, put they're Pro-life, and apparently that's all that matters.

@racocn8

You are talking about long ago. When I worked for the YMCA in the 1970s and 1980s, the YMCA was non-denominational. No chapel or no prayer sessions. Everyone was welcome.

"We're in the people business: all the people" was the YMCA motto.

@Bigwavedave

I have some PTSD as a result.

@LiterateHiker I also think I do. But from different provocations. I don't know what to say but we carry on. You certainly are no push over.

@Mofo1953

At the Tacoma YMCA, my supervisor, Frank, threatened to kill me if I told anyone he pressured me for sex. Thank goodness I came from a large family of tattletales.

I told the Executive Director. Will always feel grateful that he believed me. He stopped Frank supervising me. The Executive Director took over supervising me himself.

Three years after I started the adapted aquatics programs, the National YMCA honored us as a model program. The National YMCA flew executive directors from around America to see what we were doing for disabled people in our pools.

In 1978, the Tacoma YMCA had no human resources manager.

Sometimes just rejecting a guy street harassing us or trying to date us can get us stalked, assaulted and/or killed... and you never know which guy is capable of any of the above so we err on the side of caution until we are acting in self-defense.

@Allamanda Maybe a poor choice of word. My point is sexual harassment by women towards men is real and is virtually never talked about. In fact men to whom I’ve told my stories sounded envious...think about it...

@Allamanda I’m not comparing.

Allamanda: Are there any statistics on how many men get pregnant from a female sexual assault? Or even, how many women get pregnant from assaulting a male?

Do you and other men bring up these topics of your own harassment? I mean if it is not talked about often enough, is it not up to men to start creating spaces and platforms to talk about it?

Was there ever any point when you were being harassed by a woman that you feared that you might not have the necessary physical strength to protect yourself if she became aggressive or violent?

@demifeministgal See my response above. When I bring it up with other men they’re envious, as if I should be flattered. Or they make jokes.

@Deb57 No, and the harassment never got to the point where I had to physically fend off the advances, and for that I’m grateful. When I was cornered in my boss’s office I feared if I fought back or hit or hurt her I would be the one blamed and would lose my job and/or be accused/arrested for physical or sexual assault. I understand well that is not the same as being physically vulnerable due to the size and strength differential. Harassment of men by women is usually about the power differential, not physical.

@Bobbyzen harassment of women by men is about both.

@Deb57 I fully understand. My comment was not meant to diminish harassment of women by men, nor to compare the two. I’m just saying harassment of men by women exists and I gave two personal examples, one where physical groping occurred and I felt helpless to do anything about it for fear of losing my job or being arrested for assault.

@gemini1947

Good idea. I need to call the Wenatchee Police and ask them to recommend a personal defense class for women.

@BitFlipper

Thank you for your kind and insightful reply.

@Deb57

Good point.

In parking lots, I avoid parking next to a van. Men could easily pick me up and throw me into a van, never to be seen again.

Over the septic tank.