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Is it elitist to think we have a responsibility to others?

A certain security exists in believing. Some humans need that security, some do not. I believe it is a matter of intelligence.

Those with less intelligence (either by mental capacity or education) require a systematic, patterned belief set to build their personal narrative around. These are the real exuberant churchies. I'd almost venture to say the abrahamic, monotheistic types.

Beyond that you have some with more intelligence who can build a bit of a personal narrative on their own with just a little guidance. These are more the religious centrists. Philosophers who still embrace the social order provided in a church or religious setting.

Still further you have those who are independent of such needs. They are only content to build their own narrative and personal rules. I see this as the secular group with agnostics and atheists being a major portion.

No matter which group we (you) belong to we are all still part of the human group. And in that human group I find there are a whole other set of rules that seem to underlie our existence. These are the maxims that allow us to coexist. Rousseau's social contract. Central to these tenets, I believe, you find that each group has a responsibility to those below it - Don't ruin their peace.

Of course this is a theory damn near impossible to verify. All of you "where's your scientific proof" people won't be one bit happy with my thought. But it only makes sense if we acknowledge that man is a social being who accomplishes most when he/she works together as a group. And that IS man's true strength.

My best support for this comes from years of study on eastern spirituality. These levels are emphasized among the vedic beliefs of the middle and far east. Simple villagers and the like find a highly ritualistic and formalized belief system with the prevailing chosen deity of their particular culture. Those with more education or cultural "refinement" also can engage in a less structured, more philosophical belief system wherein they can choose from among many deities who suit their particular needs.

Last, but certainly not least, you have the secular "factions" of vedantists who break the 4th wall and acknowledge that gods are just a concept to promote devotion. Through ishta devata they can pick any deity or even heuristic concept to dwell upon, or none at all. Over the years I have discovered that the deeper one gets into vedantic beliefs the more you encounter those who don't "mess with" or harass those on the rungs below them. They have their space and roles and we have our own. The intelligent work to assist and give minor nudges to those below as gurus ... but the path is chosen and traversed by the seekers themselves. Or NOT seekers and merely religious sheep as the case may be.

Each person finds their own path on whatever level is appropriate and those on successive levels do NOT try to coax them. We have to acknowledge that people are different and it's best to let them discover their own way.

This is the way. I have spoken. namostute.

JeffMesser 8 Mar 3
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20 comments

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0

Wow! If you can't state your case simply, then you simply don't know enough. Albert Einstein

2

Personally, I don't believe I am responsible for other beings, humans included. They are their own independent entities with whom I interact on a regular basis and would even choose to assist / help when asked for and vice versa, but do so out of my free will and not an obligation. In fact, I'd say abstaining from being involved in another being's life feels to be a better option. This also strongly includes

  1. Not shoving evolutionary superiority complex of humans down on every other specie by utilizing them as mere resources.
  2. Take away another person's opportunity to develop their own ideas and opinions especially in childhood by giving them own version of answers than suggesting them to ask questions.
2

An elitist is, by definition, a person who thinks he or she is better than, above, and/or more deserving than others. There are few truly benevolent tyrants, if any.

3

Most humans are conditioned for later life, in their early years and there would be imprinting that would show up in their sub-conscience, even as they tried to be something else consciously. So the culture that they are in, would leave a strong influence on their nature, even when they were transplanted to a completely different culture. So there’s that!
As for the question of do we owe ‘others’ anything? It appears that modern man made it to this point, with the help of others! I cannot imagine doing every single thing to support my life, by myself! I can see it being a short life after I left the support of a parent or parents! We can choose not to be helpful to others...or we can choose to reach out! From my experience I can ever recall a single person who refused to help anyone! Maybe it was accidental but people help each other in unforeseen ways. On the other hand there are teachers, who cannot help but teach or pass on what they have learned.
I only know this culture well, so I can only speak from there! I believe in this American modern society, people will choose to be of service to others, in one way or the other or they will be selective and see no need to extend help to many, if any! It looks to me that is how we are evolving. Personally I give a hand up any where it is needed and at the same time, I expect and hope for a hand up, when I need it! If trees ‘speak’ to each other through their roots...there is a very good chance that we humans are all connected with our energy. At that level, it is an honor to reach out to other humans.

good answer and very insightful.

2

Well, not being part of the elite it’s difficult to say. I feel somewhat responsible for others, due to my actions having ripples. Then as someone with a small disposable income, for spending it in a way that causes no harm and I giving very small percentage to charity.
But everyone has their own lived experience and make their best decisions based on that. I’m not sure if it’s a question of being elitist, or of simple upbringing and opportunity/ willingness to assist? but there is a lot more to unpack in the body of your text.

0

"There are some guys that need to be in an institution!"

Una looked at the room as it took in her remark
"You know the guys. They just HAVE to BE... in, an, IN-STI-TUTION
Her Armagh brogue spelling it out for those that did not get it.
"You know those guys who HAVE to join something. It doesn't matter what it is, they are all still the same type of guys...They HAVE to belong to something. Have someone telling them what to do... what to wear ...you feckin know....? . Because they feckin NEED it. There are loads of guys like that"
" Yeah, I know loads of guys like that. I grew up with them"
For sure I knew them.They were part of my tribe. I watched them go off, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed and then I also watched them come back and flounder on the dry desert sands of self-dependency.

"So... if youse kick with the wrong foot. What the feck you gonna go? Its not just the Army! It's ALL the other feckin institutions that are bared to yer. Fire brigade, paramedics, prison service you feckin name it and... AND... if, ..If yer does manage to get IN !! ...Then yer OWN feckin tribe disowns yer fer joinin the fucking enemy... So where the fuck do you go? .........I will tell feckin yer.where you go.. You go to the guys that will that TELL you what to do. The guys with the guns,.. the direction, The ones that tell you that YOU belong there.
I used to see them, with their guns. The squaddies and all "the lads" they are both a load of cunts. Both as bad as each other and you want to know something? They are just the SAME feckin guys"

That's a very Northern Ireland way of looking at things. Is it from a novel?

@brentan No Una was my neighbor in the flat downstairs. All that is how I remembered it

2

The "security" that you reference is a "need" that I believe is programmed into people. If they were not introduced to the fears of the religion in a time when they weren't able to critically analyze the information, that fear becomes part of their personality before they have the ability to analyze it using rational thought processes. Thus the "security" that there's a "need" is a false impression created by the programming of a generalized fear into them in the first place.

I think it's interesting that you think that intelligence has something to do with whether or not someone believes in a god and that not believing in a god implies some kind of "elite" status. It reeks with condescension. I see nothing that implies that not believing in a god has anything to do with a "higher" intelligence as opposed to a lack of desire to critically analyze the belief. There is no short term, obvious social benefit from analyzing the belief. In fact, doing so usually ostracizes a person from the community they were raised in.

The idea that there is some "responsibility" to those who choose to believe is also an intriguing concept. But given that it's based on the assumption that those with a belief are less intelligent (something not demonstrated in your OP) I would say that it is more a paternalistic assumption than an objective proposition. Not sure what an atheist's "responsibly" would be in this context. It sounds as if you're saying we must protect them from reality because they're not bright enough to accept it without a god and that's sounds kind of insulting.

3

So, you are saying that we all have "roles to play"--depending on our understanding, or ability to understand?

This, to me, sounds elitist--or, at the very least, has great potential to become elitist. And, the Caste system, which this sounds like, is elitist. We are all to accept our place, our role? Well, who is to determine our place, our role? Only ourselves? I don't think so.

Those at the "higher" levels will be making that determination--after all--they are the ones with the "better understanding," right?

yep, there is certainly a risk of that. thats a fair assessment.

2

You can call it "elitist" if you want, but I don't. I think that taking care of others is enlightened self-interest. None of us is completely independent, and we need others to assist in our care. It's a web made of threads of people taking responsibility for each other.

Non-social animals might see it as Elitist.

I don't disagree with that view. thats a fair observation.

1

It depends what that responsibility is!

to let them stew in their own beliefs without interference from those who know better.

I suggest we help deal with individual’s fundamental needs before being concerned with their beliefs.

Maslows Hierarchy Of Needs is important. Let’s deal with the basics. We have a responsibility to ensure are communities are safe and nurturing regardless of anyone’s ideological concerns.

0

I don't know if "its elitist" but you are

and?

@JeffMesser thats my answer

@Burner ok

2

We are all resposible for everything and each other in a non judgmental way. Energy follows thought, every thought everyone has is part of creating life the universe and everything. Simplistically put.

1

By responsibility is it meant today or for future generations. Again, question from my late partner to her 2nd graders: What is more important people or dirt? We have a responsibility to maintain the life support system that maintains life for LIFE (writ large). If taking 'care' of each other means a further deterioration of the ecosystem then we deserve just what we will get!!

life is a priori. nature will take care of the chaff.

@JeffMesser We still have a responsibility. It has been said either we deal with our problems in a peaceful way or mother nature will do it for us. Mother is a total bitch sometimes and cares not for her offspring. Caring for others (humans and other species) must mean being more proactive instead of our usual reactionary habits. However, this can require 'tough love.'

2

That same thinking led to the holocaust, we have a responsibility to speak up and oppose wrongs

there's truth in what you say. namo-stute.

1

Circular argument

6

"Is it elitist to think we have a responsibility to others?"
In my opinion, it is elitist to think we do NOT.

4

The Golden Rule. Period.

the world is more complex than that.

@JeffMesser actually, no it is not!

@AnneWimsey actually yes it is.

@JeffMesser only because we make it so. Very few can really influence the world, but as individuals we can address our own back yard.

@AnneWimsey don't bother arguing with this guy. He knows everything, just like trump.

@JeffMesser ...no one lives in the ‘world,’ we occupy the space where we reside in a Country! Maybe you are spreading yourself to-o thin? I hold no degrees, but simplistic has never needed one!

@OwlInASack huh?

@OwlInASack maybe if you weren't so close-minded you might actually learn something. I feel sorry for people like you. You have my sympathies.

3

It would seem that we have a responsibility towards all living things, otherwise they might disappear. If it is animals in question and we eat them, and a group of us thinks it is OK to eat them, then we do it. We have to keep this action in control of they might disappear forever. Coming up now to fellow humans we would control them, persecute them, and even murder them but again this is only allowed by group. It is the group that is elite. Doing any of this as an individual could end up with bad consequences and even charges of murder.

Sorry Donnie. Thanks but no thanks.

I have no clue what your donnie reference means.

8

In answer to your question..in a word... No, it isn’t elitist. I believe it is basically acting out a belief that mankind has a collective responsibility towards ourselves and the world in which we inhabit. We need nothing beyond that to act responsibly towards all living things, man included. Intelligence quotient is not relevant to having empathy towards others, nor it seems is it a factor in having a belief in god or other mystical entities.

fair enough.

2

Those with less intelligence (either by mental capacity or education) require a systematic, patterned belief set to build their personal narrative around.

Do they actually need those things? Or are they just imposed on them by those with more power - physical, mental, economic - to keep them in control and deal with the freeloader problem? After all take a smart well educated person of 100 years ago and today they would probably have trouble getting by with their knowledge, do they need religion to cope, or just education and opportunity? And those of lower mental capacity who would have been institutionalized even 50 years ago might now be found living independent lives (perhaps somewhat community supported) and free from religion.

we ALL have and make a personal narrative the moment our brains begin to amass experience. this is how we develop the very concepts and forms our mind uses to project our reality. it's not just some silly social thing although it includes social issues. it's the trigger that initiates our limbic system until we're in our early 20's (females) or late 20's (males) when our PFC takes over.

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