"The friendly atheist can grant that a theist may be justified or reasonable in believing in God, even though the atheist takes the theist’s conclusion to be false. What could explain their divergence to the atheist? The believer may not be in possession of all of the relevant information. The believer may be basing her conclusion on a false premise or premises. The believer may be implicitly or explicitly employing inference rules that themselves are not reliable or truth preserving, but the background information she has leads her, reasonably, to trust the inference rule. The same points can be made for the friendly theist and the view that he may take about the reasonableness of the atheist’s conclusion. It is also possible, of course, for both sides to be unfriendly and conclude that anyone who disagrees with what they take to be justified is being irrational. "
i'm a friendly person. i'm also an atheist. whether i am friendly to others when atheism is the topic of discussion depends on what the other person is selling and how aggressively s/he is selling it. i am not going to define myself as a friendly atheist or an unfriendly atheist, as that plays into some stereotypes about atheists. our only unifying characteristic is that we either don't believe there are any gods or believe there are no gods.
g
It's for me to say. I don't like or Christianity, but I usually try and be nice to Christians, because I know they are usually sincere in their beliefs. I respect the right of other people to be wrong, so to speak. But I do hate the suppression of free thought and the belief that women should submit themselves to men. And if a debate should arise about God or Christianity, I don't mind letting people know what I think.
Other than that, I would say I am friendly and reserved. Perhaps I come across as stand-offish, but unless the believer crosses some line on me, I will respond with gentle compassion and respect for their point of view, however that respect MUST go two ways.
The second the theist gets oh his high horse, then my MO will likewise change. I don't take shit. I also refuse to dish Out shit until the other person opts to head in that direction.
I suppose i am the sort who believes, do unto others as I would have them do unto me. Truth be told, again, if the theist steps it up, Ari will step it up too. Mano e mano. Whats good for the godly goose is good for the agnostic gander!
If a theist is up for a friendly bit of discourse, by all means, I'm your gal. If that same theist comes in Pretending he/she is up for a friendly bit of discourse and opts to go another direction once i take the bait... well... them's there fightin' words child!
I'm cool IF YOU'RE cool!
Sooo... uhh... TMW... seems you left Some Of Us Out... aaaand... you and I are exactly that: Agnostic. Where is the "friendly agnostic?" I felt funny even choosing amount atheist or theist.
waaa waaa... no equal representation by my most beloved Agnostic friend at a.com! He... Skipped US!
And what if i want to be Funny Agnostic or Quirky Agnostic?
@TheMiddleWay yeaaah... i got to that part... once i read down further. I was like, "oh... so NOW he explains it" as im sifting through older responses. lol
@TheMiddleWay hahah It okay man! I mean, your overall point was understood. Its all good.
Sometimes we just happen to miss certain aspects we are wishing to convey, and in this case, it sort of, locked you in place due to an inabilty to edit, but typically, on a whole, your posts are thought-provoking, earnest & sincere in their quest for knowledge and understanding and promote an environment for open discourse.
I cannot say that is a flawed thing what-so-ever regardless of any written oversights, errors or disjointed information. If a person is truly interested in a topic, they will read through the thread. If they read through the thread, they will see your post-explinations and edits.
I wouldn't worry too much about it since the majority of what you bring to this site is valuable and your message is not missed. I was semi-razing you too because I KNOW how doggedly we defend being Agnostic whenever it comes to light. We are both interested in being mindful that our particular breed isn't mistaken nor overlooked. In that knowledge, I did immediately wondered, "there must be a reason he did not add an agnostic option to this poll...albeit, what could that reason be...?" Hence, why I figured if i read through the thread, the answer would be found.
I was sort of... giving you shit, man. Don't you know me by now TMW? I'm scarcastic.
I’m a cantankerous agnostic.
@TheMiddleWay wha... the...??? for real...? you For Real forgot us? you must be... joking...
What didn't you as a proclaimed agnostic asked this about agnostics or non believers generally? Or are agnostics by definition always friendly, so the question doesn't apply.
@TheMiddleWay leaving aside the reference to atheism being irrational which you know me well enough to know I think is absurd, I am pleased you say that this friendly/unfriendly rating is more broadly applicable. But I find this post a little odd. Why would an avowed agnostic who thinks atheism is arguably irrational post on this about atheism? I sense an attempt at another agenda stemming from your disapproval of atheism. Still, it has resulted in some interesting comments. But I find these simplistic terms, friendly or unfriendly, of little depth or meaning.
@TheMiddleWay so your statement "If we extend the concept, the agnostic could make the claim that both atheism and theism are irrational because neither accept their justification for agnosticism" is not your view but what a hypothetical agnostic could say. Is that right? Okay, but why would you present a hypothetical view of an agnostic if you don't agree with it.? Hypothetically an agnostic could make a variety of claims. It's not unreasonable to assume from reading the comment that you agreed with this statement.
Oh, by the way, my earlier comment " Or are agnostics by definition always friendly, so the question doesn't apply" was meant humorously. I should have added a smilie.
@TheMiddleWay I've never assumed you were an unfriendly atheist. Never said so. I do strong think you are an ambiguous agnostic. I did refer to your reference about atheism being irrational, and I still don't know if your "the agnostic could claim .....irrational " statement applies to you. As to your agenda your antipathy towards the atheist position is quite clear, you come at it from different ways, though I know you'll reply in the negative. You play clever word tricks in your posts, "The agnostic could claim..." for example, but I'm not fooled by them.
@TheMiddleWay you are impossible to deal with. @NotConvinced is right about you and straw man arguments. Look at below:
"... yet you said,
""Why would an avowed agnostic who thinks atheism is arguably irrational post on this about atheism? ""
As I am "the avowed agnostic who posted on this", clearly you did paint me as an unfriendly atheist, as one who stated atheism was irrational (something I've never done)."
So, avowed agnostic = irrational atheist.
That's in your mind. Your extraction.
I simply asked you if your statement " the agnostic could make the claim that atheism and theism, are irrational..." was your view as an agnostic, but you are evasive about it. I also previously stated that, OK, perhaps that isn't your view, but asked why did you state it. You reply by huffing and puffing about being painted as an unfriendly atheist.
And just for the record, I don't think you are an unfriendly atheist. I think you are so residually scared of your God that your intellectual mind can longer accept as true but your emotional mind can't let go of, you wouldn't dare call yourself anything but an agnostic. And no I don't have to ask you a million questions to determine that, as reading your stuff over months (like your ramble yesterday that faith equals personal 'evidence' ) reveals all. You're not the first residue religious agnostic I've encountered in my life. But you are one of the most self righteous.
@TheMiddleWay no, the false equivalence was yours, and I was pointing it out, you missed the point, again.
Now you're speaking "for the site" ? Well, why not, middle, or whatever your name is.
@TheMiddleWay you are definitely an odd individual.
Friendly, but introverted.... probably won’t strike up a conversation with anyone...
The definitions of friendly and unfriendly seem too extreme for this to be a true dichotomy. I fail to qualify as "friendly" as I do not believe that the theistic position is justified. I hold that any position that is not based upon evidence is unjustified. However I also do not meet the given criteria of "unfriendly" as I do not believe that anyone who disagrees with me must necessarily be wrong. I am always open to the possibility that I could be wrong, and will always correct myself when evidence is presented that challenges my beliefs.
This is kind of like asking are you a good witch or a bad witch. I usually respond that I'm a very good bad witch.
It depends on who I talk to and what we are talking about.
Also why are there options for theist? Are there theists on this website?
Yes, there are. It's part of the spectrum.
Very few, but I have come across a couple.
@evidentialist Yeah, now that I think about it, that makes sense. There are agnostic theists just like there are agnostic atheists.
@SallyMc -- The varying shades of human existence.
@SallyMc -- Where in the site's literature does it say, "No theists allowed?" There is even provision for the varying shades of belief/unbelief built right into the questions asked to provide information about members. But even if that were not the case and NO THEISTS ALLOWED was printed in giant red letters on the site's home page, there would be no guarantee that theists wouldn't be here.