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The need for religion, not God came up today. In the conversation, I brought up the fact that humans have always looked to order their lives, and religion is another way of ordering your life. There are rituals and practices that religious people do which bring them peace. Humans have a tendency for order so this makes sense. And historically, all communities of people have looked for explanations for things they did not understand. So, that is where God or gods or spirits came in. As we learn more, or have better explanations for things as simple as why it rains, or why the sun rises people still have God in there life. Perhaps to explain the unexplainable? Lost someone you love, well God has a reason. Got laid off of work, God has a plan. Annoying to me but helpful to others I suppose. So, here is a question, what do you do that is a ritual in your life, that brings order to your life?

GreatNani 8 Aug 29
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28 comments

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0

You are on target. Read Erich Fromm's book, ESCAPE FROM FREEDOM.

3

Great question. Every day find the good, the interesting, the value, the lesson, the connections. In other words, create and enjoy the process. Schedule in positive friends and meaningful moments. Reading, walking, video games, working out, painting, singing, etc. Demand these things in your priorities.

Also, have a personal 'ritual that supports your belief in self. You believe in you and that you are the captain of your ship. Then you can progress and enjoy and adjust and be daily happy, and able to handle the challenges as they come.

3

I sort of agree with this thinking, but I believe religion is mostly a mechanism for people to abdicate responsibility for their own lives and just allow religion to control/direct their actions. A multitude of excuses are built into the process, as you described above.

I like to believe that I guide my own actions, and I do to a certain extent. However, my need for survival drives me to continue to go to work and collect my paycheck in order to keep my home, medical insurance, and my car (which enables me to keep going to work), and to maintain my standard of living, such as it is. Sadly, I think a majority of people are in my boat, or worse.

3

Coffee

Well yes, always coffee!

3

I go to work every day. That's all the order or structure I need.

3

Ok... I've numerous rituals and superstitions.
This is one my favorite uncle showed me. The "empty wine bottle" ritual:
Upon finishing off a good bottle of vino, I take the bottle outside and let the last few drops drip onto the soil. It has to be dirt, not concrete. Natural rock is ok. I then say "thanks for this great bottle of wine, and thanks for...... <whatever comes to mind, different each time>". Basically sharing the bounty of the planet with the planet. I'm not thanking a diety as such. Just being grateful.
Pretty silly, eh?
😉

I am not sure there are any drops left when I finish a bottle of wine but I get it! It is actually a ritual the native people had and Celtic people as well.

One of the secrets to happiness is gratitude. That is one reason you are happily married. You express gratitude.

2
  1. Believe in institutions like the government and universities.
  2. believe in human rights
  3. believe in significance of my actions and hence assume agency

Yes, I think in some ways religion absolves you of agency.

1

Meditation and yoga help me balance, my morning tea wakes me up. I anyways felt felt helpless trying to hold on to religion. Nature always gives me direction and fills me with peace.

1

I come to this site and at times see people who reject the god order but have something just as bad

lerlo Level 8 Aug 30, 2018
1

Having coffee in the morning!

Yes of course. Coffee is supremely important!

@GreatNani of course without the gods of coffee there would be neither creation nor evolution

@PontifexMarximus Agreed! 🙂

Coffee!

@ldheinz the coffee culters

1

I'm agnostic so I don't look to religion for salvation. I am certain that there is no God as defined by religion, but I hope there is a afterlife of some kind just in case because we need to have justification to get our just reward, and it keeps us on the right path.

1

Very insightful post. Many atheists/agnostics often make the mistake of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Your comment points to the need to have secular replacements for the needs that religion fulfills.

It is a need that has to be filled for many people. People won't leave religion if they don't have something else to hang their hat on. At least some people won't.

@GreatNani Yes! And as humanists we should try to understand religious people.

1

As far as for a purpose in life, I tried to speak out for Justice.

1

I work, read, think, and pool. Like you wrote, religion is a primitive form of philosophy. It gives answers to some of life's fundamental questions - albeit primitive answers. It also can prevent you from finding the truth if you base your beliefs on an authority or commandments, rather than on your own reasoning.

I find religious reasoning to be circular.

1

I practice yoga and meditation to stretch my body and discipline my mind. I practice music and martial arts to develop dexterity and strength. I burn the sacrament of cannabis to calm and sooth my mind and body. I don’t pray or believe “good vibes” can be sent mentally necessarily. I believe keeping a positive or at worst neutral outlook and being grateful and service oriented make all the difference in how I engage with the world.

Things I believe in showing reverence for:

  1. Scientific method and the knowledge it produces
  2. Learning from history/the elderly and the wisdom it produces
  3. Women in general
  4. Music/arts in general
  5. Nature, including our place within it and the healing/life sustaining things we harvest from it
  6. Any less fortunate, more oppressed person or group than myself (except the imaginary persecution of straight white Christian males, that’s a group delusion like most all their other beliefs)
  7. Getting lost in the process of any mindful skill you can practice including number 4 or more practical methods of building/repairing.
  8. The transient, temporal nature of life and suffering. The fact that everything is temporary and one may savor both the lows and highs.
  9. Admitting when you’re wrong/not being afraid to apologize for, own and correct past mistakes
  10. Authentic, artful performance of any act or skill displaying humility and vulnerability.

A lot of my philosophies are derived from eastern spirituality and personal experience, subjective feelings, psychedelics, and funk music. Although I no longer consider myself even vaguely spiritual, I think the value of these things, although subjective, is hard to deny if you engage with them yourself. Basically everything our president is a disgrace to is something practically worthy of worship. I’m using hyperbole by saying worship, but for all practical purposes those are the closest things to gods I’m compelled to show honor for.

This is a lovely and well thought out answer. Thank you!

1

A tradition I carried subconsciously from my Dad was to keep a work log, which I've used to track my time and earnings at multiple jobs, just as he did as a teacher & bartender for many years. It functions as a sort of quantifiable diary to lend order to my working life, which was often multi-tiered. For answers to life's more existential mysteries, though, I've relied on multiple sources such as authors, poets, comedians, & friends.

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I try and avoid rituals and order...I gravitate more towards chaos than order. I like not knowing or having a plan...life happens anyway so everything planned is subject to change for me.
I find myself both annoyed and thrilled/invigorated by disruption...like traffic...mostly annoyed but thrilling in ways calculating an escape on the fly

1

I go to work every day. That's all the order or structure I need.

0

Ah, yes, the utility argument—religion is useful, so it must remain. It serves a purpose for the masses, albeit inconsistently, and answers troubling questions, replacing them with even greater questions in the guise of the mysterious. But we haven’t always had religion. Organized religion arose during the Neolithic Revolution, as cultures transitioned from nomadic hunter-gatherers to agriculture and settlement. Imposters who called themselves prophets, oracles and priests claimed unique authority, and the compliant and ignorant were subdued. And in nearly every nation or empire, the altar supported the throne, and the throne endowed the altar.

But we now know, if we know anything at all, that the doctrines, creeds and dogmas were of purely human invention, and that the pompous pretenders who go by the title of ‘clergy’ and who have the gall to assert a special calling, know nothing more about the infinite than do we, the so-called laity. Religion is a sham, its comforts are a placebo and its promises are hollow, and worst of all, it continues to slither around the halls of political power, seeking advantages for itself, and in return, obtaining justification for its very existence.

I think it's important to recognize that for people who buy into religion, it is a very real thing for them. Something in their psychology allows them to completely believe these things. They aren't pretending. At least not many of them. I also think it's important to recognize that religion came about as a way of bonding groups. Essentially it allowed groups of people to identify with each other and create community based around a shared idea. This has both a bad side and a good side. With the creation of in groups you automatically have the creation of out groups. We all know what happens to the out groups. But for the in groups it allowed them to get along and share resources and create a bonded community that could withstand hardship and even attacks from other groups. This is going way back of course. And the modern-day religion does have a community basis. I know it's very easy to focus on the negative aspects of religion but there are many people who rely on their religious community for all sorts of resources that might not be as readily available to them without that community. I don't believe in the spiritual basis for religion. I also don't believe that religion is the only way we can have the sense of community. I just think it's important to realize the functional way of that religion still works in the world. At least then we can make sure we fill in the gaps if and when religion takes its last bow.

@HeatherRobson Your points are made beautifully, and are well taken. Having extricated myself from an oppressive faith, I tend to focus on the negatives that religion imparted to me. I fully agree with your belief that a sense of community can be obtained without religion. Which is why I disagree with your point that those who rely on religion for resources might not obtain them in the absence of a religious community. People are, at their core, caring and would form their own religions of sorts to provide for the welfare of their community, had these things not already been invented—perhaps a better one than the ones we have today?

@pnfullifidian I understand your point. But I believed that religion is a jumping off point. The human species is so very young. Religion could be seen as akin to the stories that 4 year olds will tell to themselves or whoever wants to listen. We aren't yet at a point I don't think where we can exist without the comfort that religious affiliation offers us. Some of us can, and I do believe that Society is becoming more accepting of secular ideas of morality and community and in general living without religion. But it's not very far from anybody's mind really. I think we have to back away slowly. And watch carefully that we do take care refill the spaces that religion eventually becomes void in. As much as we might feel like it in a space such as this, many people in the world right now still cling to and believe ardently in their religions and their gods. We must make sure that we are very vigilant and have other spaces for them to move into when they decide that they want to, when and if they realize that what they thought was happening isn't really what's happening.

0

I would suggest anyone that has left religion to pick up the satanic bible and tag the first half. It's an interesting perspective on religion and guides you to focus on yourself.

TimD Level 3 Sep 2, 2018
0

Religion may bring the illusion of order to an individual's life. since order is not a normal characteristic for individuals, the illusion is pretty easily shattered, unless to that illusion one adds DElusion, rituals may feel calming to come. i even enjoy some rituals now and again (lighting the chanukah candles, for example) but neither rely on them for a sense of well-being nor mistake them for more than they are. i really enjoy passover a lot but have never read the same haggadah two years running. i don't WANT to do things by rote, rote activities lose their meaning. on passover i want to think about how slavery has not been abolished in the world, not even in the usa, and how until everyone is free, no one is free. one does not have to believe in an imaginary boss to appreciate those thoughts. one does actually have to think, though. so one can use ritual to stimulate thought, or to replace thought. i have reason to believe most religionists use it, and religion itself, to replace thought. no wonder ritual seems so calming to such folk!

g

Yes, agreed it can replace thought.

And thank you. Well thought out answer!

0

God is a deflection of responsibility. A happy make-believe blanket to help cope with nightmares. A dram of Dutch-courage by day.

0

Order to my life? Order depends on the person, I have no ritual to bring my life order. The fate of Karma and Energy of the Force in Meditation and daily life. I have no order, and no ritual to my being.

0

I run and meditate every day!

Read a book once about the evolution of religion. No pun intended. Can't recall the author, but it was an interesting read. Basically said what you just stated that religion was a way to explain the unknown, that it was a necessary step in the evolution of society. However it surmised and I agree that it has outlived its usefulness. I have friends who are non-believers, but believe that religion is a good thing. They say that it helps people to be better individuals or to keep them in line. What do you think?

I think it.can help some.people be better and do wonderful things. This would be in an individual level. But overall it has been destructive. One exception is the beautiful music and art produced to honor God, so to speak.

0

Maybe I'm a little late to the conversation, but Science - and the pursuit of science - is in itself a great way to find order. And if we all followed Science as religiously as many followed God, we might all live in a much better, happier, healthier, economically stable world.

If your loved one dies in a car accident - God did it?
Or maybe it was the car company who knew full well that they had a faulty part that may cause crashes, but figured it was cheaper to pay out a few deaths and replace their entire production line.
Or maybe that drunk jerk from down the road who religiously drinks himself silly every other night and crashed into your loved one? Still God?

If a thousand kids die in an earthquake - GOD did it?
But maybe they were going to school in a poorly made building, built by deliberately cutting corners and knowingly wasn't up to code... was that God or a bunch of money grubbing jerks.

Ya - I know what you're saying, and community is a very valuable thing, but when it's used as a replacement for critical thinking and real answers - I dunno - I would prefer to find another community.

...and that's were Agnostic.com come in. 😀
(and family and friends)

((edit: Ha ha - I spelled night with a K... LOL - drunk jerk probably not a knight, although Knights probably did drink a lot too.))

Agreed!

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