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The reason I am agnostic is because there is no proof that a God told man to compose religious texts to follow as a religion. On the same note, if there is a god, why would he have to? I'm curious as to why others came to their conclusions. What was your "ah ha" moment?

Winterdawn 4 June 23

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Twas the early and very hot summer of 1976 and our Religious Education (R.E.) tutor had gone away to bother Indians with Christianity. So the school's deputy head stepped into the post.
After 35 minutes of explanation and questions a class of 32 young men had produced 30 atheists. I still don't know why boys and girls were separated for RE.
My mother didn't like the idea of blasphemy being taught to children, but there you are. She enlightened me that I was like her dad, an unbeliever.
To be fair, I doubted that there really was a god or gods before 1976. Why would a loving god allow so much evil. Why just one son, one location, and after Jesus had risen from the dead, why didn't he show himself off? Why are we not all Jews?


As a person who use to preach I didnt have an aha moment. It was more like I dissolved away due to too many inconsistencies and also I started thinking for myself. I can't stress how important it is is for people to think on their own.


Flip back through old posts there are hundreds of these 🎃

I know. It's stupid.


Why would "God" give me a brain but demand I blindly follow zealots and charlatans?

Buxx Level 7 June 23, 2019

I am agnostic because I do not think that anyone or anything would create a being that would inflict such pain and suffering onto another being in the name of their god.


The point you make reminds me of what I notice sometimes in illusions, where the magician requires a certain odd set circumstances to make some seemingly astonishing thing happen. If they could ACTUALLY do what it appears they are doing, why do you need a stage here, and a curtain there, and box concealing step 4 there, etc. The only reason a god would need a book for his illusion is if he isn't really a god, but a bunch of people who wrote books for various reasons (and some of the reasons are so obvious that you have to be dumb, or pretend to be dumb, not to know what they were--people are getting sick from eating shellfish? well, put that in there: god says no eating shellfish).


And that in itself is a good start, for me none of it makes sense. Welcome to this site enjoy, have fun, learn. 😁


I came to my conclusion by simple logic. Atheists love to state the simplistic obvious, then make a totally unjustified leap to an absolutist verdict: there is no proof there is a god by any definition, therefore there is no such thing.
Well there's no proof there ISN'T a god of sorts either, but I don't go around saying that means there IS one!
We simply DON'T KNOW.
YOU make a great point: if there is a god, it may not be a "supreme being" at all, and in any event it's highly dubious he'd ask a few chosen "holy men" to write books on the subject...why would a REAL god care?!?
If it's ridiculous to think such a thing, it's also ridiculous to think the opposite: why would god not care? Why would "god" have a separate consciousness at all? Maybe god is everything and is a collective consciousness...and yes, maybe there's no such thing.
I just wish we could get beyond this vacuous "debate" and figure how to live our lives as beings free to do what we will regardless.

You accuse atheists of making a unjustified leap of absolutist verdict, then claim that we get beyond this "vacuous debate". Yes, we should just agree with you. Yes sir! If you are not an atheist, then fine, but don't mischaracterise atheism. Also, replace God in your comment with leprechauns and the conclusion would be from your logic that being an a-leprechaunist (not believing in them) is an unjustified leap of absolutist verdict. You might like to rethink your view of the agnostic-atheist debate, which is more nuanced that you seem to think.

Atheism is not a positive claim that there no god. It is a lack of belief in god(s). It only addresses belief. There are atheists that claim there is no god, but that is not what atheism is. Agnosticism addresses knowledge. You can be agnostic about most any subject. You can only be atheistic with respect to god claims. Do you lack belief in god? If so, you are an athiest. Agnosticism and atheism are also not mutually exclusive. You can say you don't know whether a god exists and still lack belief. Everyone is atheistic with respect to every other god they don't believe in.

Usually only true believers are so ignorant of the meaning of atheist. The evangelicals have done a good job of perverting the meaning of atheism from 'without belief' to 'hating god'. Now some are marketing the new term, NON-THEIST to take the place of atheism.

@David1955 Don't be ridiculous. Atheists like to talk about sky faeries and dragons in the garage and unicorns on the moon and act like that has anything to do with a discussion of the existence or non-existence of god.
First of all, atheists are always talking about a "supreme being" Abrahamic god, whereas agnostics talk about a completely different thing. No self-respecting agnostic thinks the primitive, crude, clumsy idea of god as Yahweh or Jehovah or God the Father is a viable one. That model DOES resemble a giant leprechaun with a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. So give that a rest.
Agnostics DO think it's possible some other definition is conceivably apt, but we have a hard time getting through the atheist smokecreen to what might be an Explanation for the natural world beyond the Big Bang.
Why? Because such an explanation at its root is impossible. Human beings do not have the comprehension, the understanding, the scientific knowledge, to articulate it. But that doesn't mean there isn't some kind of non-personal, non-anthropomorphic "intelligence" at work. That doesn't mean there aren't patterns and "end game" resulting ultimately to some "conclusion."
After all, life has evolved from microscopic unicellular organisms to human beings. Do we think it ends there? These extraterrestial aliens we postulate may be visiting us may be much farther along. Maybe they ARE the end product. Maybe there IS no end product. Maybe life continues to evolve into some kind of life-form we cannot even imagine.
So we are not talking about purple cloud-creatures or floating pink people-eaters, and we're not talking about Allah or Buddha or the like. We ARE talking about the possibility there is a pattern or an "intelligence" if you will at work here, SOMETHING our five senses cannot detect or understand.
And the existence of which means our lives are NOT finite or meaningless, which atheists are absolutely sure of without a doubt.
What agnostics are saying is, you may be wrong, so stop acting like you're smarter or more logical or your OPINIONS are more fact-based. They're just opinions, people. Get over it.

@David1955, @Kenny82 WRONG again. I lack a belief IN god. I'm not atheist. I'm agnostic. I lack a belief IN the non-existence of god as well. That's the difference.

@Storm1752 I wish you would stop making false claims about atheists. We don't just reject Abrahamic gods, but ALL gods, all 3,000 or so of them. So wrong. Of course, as an agnostic you have to be agnostic about ALL gods, including Apollo and the rest, to be consistent. (A point well made by Bertrand Russell.) You seem to dislike atheists more than religionists. I've encountered this kind of agnostic attitude before. I wish agnostics and atheists to be on the same side, fighting religion. But your kind of self-righteous agnosticism is distasteful to me, I'm afraid.

@David1955 But I DO put all 3,000+ gods in the same category, not just Abrahamic goda. I DID say Buddha. I guess I slightly misspoke. I don't have more than a passing knoeledge of Thor (good in Avenger movies) or Loki, or Odin or Zeus, or...whoever. They're all basically the same.
There MAY be some who don't fit the Supreme Being model. Some are probably quite interesting. Maybe I should look into that, just for fun...nah, probably not.

@David1955 I son't hate anybody (well maybe a few people but they don't count...they stole money from me). I dislike belief systems. But that darthfaja is right: we've all had this discussion many times.

@Storm1752 Bertrand Russell made the point that he did not believe that agnostics are equally agnostic about Zues or Apollo, say, as they are with the God they grew up with, the Christian God for example. I agree with him. In practice, he said and I agree, agnostics are functionally atheist about the gods they don't care about, and agnostic about the one they do, their own culture God. I have never believed this is a consistent position. I am atheist.

@David1955 i'm equally atheist about all man-made gods, whether it's Odin or Jesus or whomever...I'm agnostic about the possibility of the existence of a god beyond our comprehension and impossible about which to write books, start religions, or for that matter even TALK about intelligently...
Okay? NOW do you get it?


Don't think too much. You are free. So don't waster time and energy on God shit. Just enjoy your freedom.


No "ah ha" moment. Perhaps the very earliest spark was when I missed church one Sunday and I wasn't any worse for wear.

godef Level 7 June 23, 2019

it didn't take much complicated logic for me. i was 15, i'd discovered that my folks had been wrong (in innocence, not lying, just wrong) about something i'd bought into, and decided to examine all my beliefs. it was no more difficult than it would've been for a christian child to realize there was no santa claus. it just made no sense to think there was any such thing as a god. i didn't worry about why this or how that. i had no especial expectations of the god in which i vaguely believed. there was no disappointment or anything like that. i just realized it wasn't real, that's all. i knew there was a word for someone like me: atheist. it wasn't like "oh i think i'll be an atheist now."



There are probably 1000 posts like this. Me, I lost my last grandparent in 2003. I prayed for her to come back, realized she was never coming back.


I was brought up in a very religious home and a the supernatural aspects of christianity were always referred to as absolute and mater of fact so often that you can't help but think its true.God does miracles, its just his thing so I guess damn near anything is possible. I remember coming to the realization at about 17 or so that one of the nicest , kindest, funniest and just straight up cool people i knew was not going to go to heaven, sadly he was going to burn in hell for all eternity because he didnt do the things that i had been taught you were supposed to do. I had my doubts before that but that was the pivitol moment .. at that point i realized that there was no way that could be true.. and if it indeed was I did not want any part of it... a God that would fry my friend was just too big of an asshat to deserve praise.

Very far away stars made by a very angry gawd mad at money changers in a stone temple 1% as far away as the moon from my house....I could count the number of miles it was on road signs to my Aunt Margaret math was getting an F minus from my homework notes


I am a nurse. Throughout career have seen a lot. I used to be believer but no longer do. I have questioned myself and religion a long time. The stories are just stories. I claim title of humanist. It is people that cause problems and people that can fix them.


Growing up my family was not religious. I was aware of Christianity, but in about fourth grade I heard there were other religions and figured they were all likely not true.


The stories show a complete disregard for the truth and have no evidence to support them. There may or may not be a God but one thing for sure it isnt the Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Hindu Gods. Buddism is more philosophy than a religion, as it teaches enlightenment.


Once I realized religion had distinct functions for members of society it made me realize that religion was created from within people's brains and was not an outside force of supernatural influence. It is a social contruct. So it took some university classes in sociology and in anthropology to get that 'ah ha' moment. That was in the early 80's.


The whole Moses story is just as untrue as the Jesus story. In all likelihood neither of them every existed. There were never any Jewish slaves in Egypt and there is no record of any Jewish uprising in Roman occupied Israel. No historical evidence at all, and especially in the case of Jesus, where their is claimed to be direct contact with Roman forces, it's clear that it never happened because the Romans kept fastidious records (we've found sales receipts for lumber deliveries carved into stone tablets, for instance) and none mention anyone named Joshua, Jesus, Emmanuel, Yeshua, or Christ or any other name attributed to Jesus. We have, however, found documentation that would suggest that the Jesus myth was started by the Romans 300 years after his supposed death as a Urban myth meant to destabilize the Jewish religion and give Romans a better foothold in the region during the reign of Constantine I.


Learning a lot about the history of the early church and studying geology.


I am using brain, so it's much more likely that (there) isn't Orthodox Supreme and Angels and all that stuff.


Growing up, my parents took me to church. I never felt any affinity, connection or sense of belonging there. Not to any part or person. Then, when I was about 7 or 8, on one of the Sundays before my First Holy Communion, the priest brought me and another boy to the front of the church. He asked us both if we could keep a secret. I said yes and the boy said no. The priest then gave him a little religious medal and told him to show everyone. Then he told us both to go back to our seats. I felt so empty, cheated and confused. I realized that's all church and religion ever made me feel, empty, cheated and confused.

I don't get it. What was the point of giving the other kid a medal?

@greyeyed123 I'm assuming the priest wanted to reward the boy for professing his faith in front of the congregation and showing me that when you profess your faith, you get a reward. That's the way I always took it, but it's open to interpretation.

@KarenK17 Ok, but even I (an adult) did not understand that clearly. If that was what the priest was going for, he could have at least told you so, lol. Seems rather cruel to do to a child.


Welcome to asylum. Enjoy your stay.

I can't say I ever had an "ah-ha moment".
I was born an atheist, and indoctrination didn't take.


There is not only no "proof" of any deities or the supernatural, there is no verifiable evidence, facts or data to support the claims of theists that any god(s) exist.


go to you tube and watch the experts ie, sam harris christopher hitchins richard dawkins and they will lead you to all other experts unfortunately we lost christopehr to cancer but there are loads of very learned men who will explain perfectly the reason not to be religious


Proponderance of very convincing physical evidence from different types of measurements ( carbon dating, tree rings, fossils, math exc..) that give explanations for the reasons we got here and prove the religious explanations wrong.

MsAl Level 8 June 25, 2019

My a-ha moment was when I was 16 or so and my mom told me a gay friend was going to hell. It was too inconsistent with the person being kind and friendly. I stayed a nominal Christian for many years after, but that was the first crack in the foundation.

Orbit Level 7 June 24, 2019
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