I see exactly where you are going and Yes, according to the Buybull stories, he had an elder brother named James, therefore, either Joseph was previously married and then a widower OR Mary was a widow, OR she'd played around long before she had met Joseph.
Anyway you look at it, the whole myth is little more than absolute bullshit.

Ha that would never have been taken literally then, we have just forgotten what "donkey" represents, represented then, i guess

It makes you wonder how many girls since then have told that line to their father. Honest dad i'm really still a virgin. God immaculately concepted me and I've really never been with a man.

If God existed and demanded my worship I would do so- even out of fear and just accept the fact that I have to answer to a mysoginidtic, tribal, genocidle asshole. I reject religion because it is nonsense. Hitler, Trump, etc. They exist, they're nasty, they have/had power.

I am not here to accuse. Just merely point out that you may have rejected religion because it is nasty and the fradulent bit is based on that. Just something to consider.

@rovingamber, Good you are not here to accuse. You just sharing your point of view like me or everybody. Maybe I did not explain myself well. Ok first I don't know the meaning of the word that you are using "fradulent" forgive me for my ignorance. I'll change the fraudulent word for "dishonest, false, corrupt".

If you accept the "believer" interp, certainly. So i mean note the progression if you will; "believers are obviously deceived, and believers say ___ is in the Bible, ergo the Bible is deception." ? Ok

The OT is a record of the failure of religion, after all yeh

Christianity, certainly, the Bible, not even a little, ok? test everything, and keep what is good

With any religion, women take it right in the teeth. This gutless bullying is one of the most despicable aspects of all religions. It is pathetic, cruel and to say the least, counterproductive. How any woman can voluntarily remain a member of a religion like Christianity baffles me. Having said that, I understand that there is peer pressure, family pressure, fear of spouse abuse and loss of support, and many other reasons to take the path of least resistance and capitulate. I understand, but this does not make it right. Whew...Long winded...And we ask a lot of our women....But UNTIL women break through from this intimidation and VIRTUALLY SLAVERY, nothing will change.

Again, having said this, I don't know if I would have the guts to be a woman with all the headwinds. It is a huge burden to bear and fight.

Religions are abusive with women and I think there is a very simple reason for that. They need to control their uteruses. They need them to give birth to as many baby followers as they can. It's way easier to get them in their cribs than when they're grown up.

i know a lady from india. she said women were (not sure if it still happens) kept out back with the cows

Yet "there are no male or female" as far as the Bible is concerned, hmm

I'm not sure that Mary played any men to make any of this happen. Men were in control and this is some god setup that they wanted. If you read other writings Jesus was not the first "virgin birth." This was a "purity" concept that seemed to fit ancient religions.

All religions are fraudulent. They are into a spiritual protection racket. They make humans believe that they have a soul and they make promises and threats about what will happen to that soul after death in order to get obedience, power, money and sex.