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Green Party communications manager Michael O’Neils, peaking on behalf of the Green Party, Friday. “Clinton says ‘they can’t win again without a third party candidate’ when the reality is the Democrats and Republican’s cartel-like suppression of third parties and real democratic reforms like ranked choice voting and proportional representation corroded our politics to the point where a crooked, white supremacist, misogynist, fame-obsessed huckster like Donald Trump could connive his way into the White House.”

Thoughts?

Seeker3CO 8 Oct 19
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6

Wouldn’t it be great if there were no parties of any kind? I know that sounds foolish but honestly how else can we start dismantling the elite that are running this country and buying it for their own self interest?

That was Madison’s ideal when working on the constitution - he warned of the dangers of forming factions.

@Haemish1 well I think given today’s circumstances he was right.

America’s founders imagined interest groups in which people would briefly cooperate to get what they wanted.
Hamilton and his allies within five years formed a longer-lasting relationship, the Federalist Party. Jefferson and his states rights planter allies, not wanting to be permanent losers, formed the Democratic Republican Party.

Excellent idea! Eliminate the parties and get money out of politics to where each candidate has equal air time on TV/Web/Adds. This would not only get the special interest control out of elections but allow candidates to run on their ideas of how to improve freedoms while reducing cost of government. (Which has become nothing more than a machine for big chip players to control markets...to hell with the health and wealth of the citizen)

@yvilletom in that spirit they obviously never imagined it to be the monster it has become. And yet they also experienced the cultishness of special interests even way back then.

@warlord13 exactly and term limits would also be nice. We also need to cut the pay and benefits they receive. We need to make it a real job like what the rest of us do. Nobody should be getting rich from the taxes the people pay to the feds.

@DiThor Term limits indeed! And they should be paid the equivalent of a median income (I believe it's about $40k/Year) plus expense accounts that are documented and business related only. (No trips to offshore islands on the public's dime). Health care should be the same as everyone else and both salaries and benefits terminate when their service is completed...NOT FOR LIFE! What other job other than a company owner gets paid for life?

@warlord13 expense account? For what? They need to take care of business and pay for their own expenses to do a job including their commute to and from their jobs...just like the rest of us. No trips of any kind either until they get their “vacation” time. Lol
And agree no paycheck of any king once they are no longer doing the job.

It does not sound foolish at all. Voters are lazy and irresponsible voting party rather than knowing the facts about the candidates. It shows even in the Presidential nomination process occurring for 2020 as polls reflect name recognition rather than actually knowing the voting records and policy positions.

4

In general I agree with MORE parties.
This cycle I ONLY care about one thing

Who are you voting for?
IDK
#NOTTRUMP

4

So silly. Our nation has a representative model for good reason. Regular people are not policy experts, lack the time to fully understand law and policies, and lack the wisdom to make informed and responsible decisions on matters of great importance to our nation. I see the attitude regularly where people refuse to vote or engage politicians or participate in the process, they don't get what they want, and then they condemn the way everything works. They refuse to leverage the system to their advantage as well. This further enforces the all the self created problems that caused them to distrust the system. Wise people pick the lesser evil until the lesser evil (greater good) becomes the center point and and even better options come about. Our political needle moved far to the right through incrementalism over the course of decades. Money influences got bigger in our government. Bias against human beings and suppression of the perceived weak grew. Incrementalism worked for the big billionaires, churches and others taking our nation away. It can work for us.

"Wise people pick the lesser evil until the lesser evil (greater good) becomes the center point and and even better options come about. " If that were true, we would not have our military spread all over the earth, invading other countries, fomenting coups, spreading depleted uranium all over, using white phosphorous, bombing critical water supplies as they did in Libya, (a war crime, by the way), assassinating leaders like Kadaffi, funding terrorist organizations in Syria to attempt a coup there, bombing hospitals, (another war crime), and this kind of behavior has been going on since the nation formed, and you assert that voting for the lesser evil will do the trick?
.
Interestingly, you add "wise people", as to include yourself in that herd.
.
That is not wise people, that is the herd, those who listed to the bull shit on FOX, CNN, etc, and never once bother to investigate any further. Lesser evil . . . yea , right. . . . Bush was the lesser evil? Clinton was the lesser evil? Obama was the lesser evil? Hell no . . . they are ALL criminals from the same gangster group, democrat and republican . . .
. Obama admitting his role in the US-supported coup in Ukraine, a war crime. (First video link below).
Victoria Nuland, Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs at the United States Department of State, admits in the second video that the USA supported the Ukrainian coup with 5 billion dollars. Note the Chevron symbol in the background of the video. John McCain (Senator Lovewar himself) and Victoria Nuland were in Ukraine in December 2013 amid the mass anti-government protests. (The third video is of John McCain in Ukraine addressing protesters.) During the visit, McCain met with Ukrainian opposition leaders in the country’s capital of Kiev, voicing his support for the protests, adding that he saw Ukraine’s future with Europe.
Biden's youngest son, Hunter Biden was hired to the board of Burisma Holdings, Ukraine’s largest private gas producer.
The proxy Ukraine war is all about energy. The Eastern part of Ukraine is the major oil and gas producing region of Ukraine accounting for approximately 90 per cent of Ukrainian production and according to EIA (The American Energy Information Administration) may have 42 tcf (trillion cubic feet) of shale gas resources technically recoverable from 197 tcf of risked shale gas in place.
George Soros is heavily invested in Ukraine . . . . to the tune of about one billion dollars.
Obama admits the US-sponsored coup:

Victoria Nuland . . . 5 Billion recently, with Chevron symbol behind her
John McCain in Ukraine addressing protesters
. There is your "lesser evil" for you, coming from both sides of the fence.

@Archeus_Lore What can I tell you? The USA is an energy company with an Army and most of what goes on in the world is about energy. That makes us and Russia the top contenders for any deal that is made. You either make a deal or you do not make a deal. I'm not sure this makes you a bad guy unless others do not like you having the better deal. Then you become the bad guy.

3

A third party would probably have more success if they build a solid foundation over time. Meaning put focus on local government as well as Congress and expand from there.

Unity Level 7 Oct 21, 2019

Thank you. The Green Party leadership sucks... period. They need to participate in all elections at every level like the Democrats and Republicans to be taken seriously. Every member of the Green Party should pick a local or state office and run for it. Would change the situation in short order the same way the GOP did, going from a 3rd party when founded in 1856 to the White House in just four years in addition to real representation in the Legislature.

3

"Ranked choice voting and proportional representation" aren't in the Constitution. Maybe the Greens want the US to look more like Italy or something, but it doesn't. The fact is, the Greens and Libertarians sucked votes from the Democratic party and that's how Trump managed to slither in in a few key races. The same happened in Florida 2000, then we got Bush II. Way to go, guys. Now they blame the 2 parties for their inability to drum up votes.

Greens and Libertarian voters want the perfect but they aren't going to get it. What they get instead is the satisfaction of making a statement. Meanwhile, the Republicans get the White House.

Strong points

I disagree, because I once was part of the Green Party 15 years ago. My friends choose to NOT VOTE rather than support a criminal like Hillary Clinton or a piece of shit like Donald Trump. Stop shifting the blame and clean up your own house, the stench is driving away most citizens who are choosing not to participate.

@ExculpatoryLover "not voting" is actually a vote! If you abdicate this time, you are "voting" for Trump! Period!

@ExculpatoryLover Please list the crimes Hillary Clinton was convicted of. Considering that several lengthy Republican investigations revealed nothing that would rise to the level of a crime, in either the handling of her personal emails, the Whitewater scandal, the Rose law firm, the Benghazi embassy, or any of the other issues that Republicans have wasted millions of taxpayer dollars on- while trying their best to sweep their own party's dirt under the rug- I'm puzzled by your phrase "a criminal like Hillary Clinton".

Meanwhile, thank you & your friends for being part of the problem.

3

I think a significant Green Party in the next election would dissolve the democratic vote and likely guarantee a republican victory, while a libertarian campaign would likely work to the democrats advantage.

And this is why we need our own Russian-style election interference. Because we can't fathom anything but binary partisanship

@MarkiusMahamius
My feeling is that the Russian interference only exacerbated binary partisanship.
A parliamentary system, or something that allowed multiple parties with proportional representation might be a more effective approach.

@Haemish1 i agree that our winner take all approach is hurting us, though i wonder what would happen if we had to try a different political approach. Have you ever tried to work in an organization that didnt have a ultimate, un nuanced decider, and everything was cooperative or collaborative?

Anyhow, i think the "Russian troll bot conspiracy" does function more or less as a third party right now. A certain number of people who would otherwise think for themselves, are now allied with a belief sytstem thats outside of dem or gop control- though it may align with one party or the other, just like the libertarians tend to align with the gop, and the greens with the dems. But ideologically it functions as if people were memebers of a tjird party.

@MarkiusMahamius SMH... Russia has so little power over us, while there is another nation that dominates us and our elections because they own the entire MSM and the majority of the financial institutions across our nation. Why these foreigners actually placed 89 dual citizens in the US Congress and every last one of them is Democrat, not the damned Republicans. No talk about them either... cowardice in the face of this powerful enemy ruling our institutions.

3

A third party’s legislators will be rented as cheaply as Dems and Repubs are now rented. If you elect them, they will be your predators and you will be their prey.

I vote in one of the 18 states with the direct initiative, referendum and recall (DIRR), and in 2018 a majority of voters made both major parties and potential third parties represent us better.

We did it with a direct initiative that outlawed the night meetings when there were no media reporting what they were doing. Now before they take a final vote on legislation, they have to post it on the web for 72 hours. The Assembly complained but complied. The Senate refused but we took them to court and they decided to obey the judge.

When voters in enough states have the DIRR, national voters will have them.

Good idea, but here in Pennsylvania our Constitution prohibits voter driven referendum and recall.

@ExculpatoryLover Amend the constitution.

@yvilletom ~ Our state constitution is even more difficult to amend than the federal constitution, which we see is a monumental task of epic proportions. Why are the Democrats in Congress cry babies and not even attempting to amend the US Constitution on any issue what so ever? Food for thought...

@ExculpatoryLover I went to ballotpedia and read your C’s amendment process. It makes clear that Wm Penn and his allies were predators and the people their prey. Today’s Pennsylvanians have a piece of work to do.

Your question? It’s too rhetorical to answer.

3

It’s how the US system works. It’s not a Parliamentary System. And, if any ‘third party’ became dominant, they’d either behave the same, or lose.

Varn Level 8 Oct 19, 2019
3

It's even worse than we can imagine. Made me think of the Freakonomics podcast rebroadcast (repodcasted?) this summer.

“I think what seems to be building in America is a growing appetite and a growing recognition that this isn’t working for our country,” Porter says. “And I think the younger generation, you know, millennials are particularly outraged and concerned and open to all kinds of new ideas.”

Link to a summary is here [medium.com]

2

The Green Party exists to amass money & incidentally funnels votes away from liberal voters. Period. Show me one instance where the Green Party and/or Jill Stein has even Tried to make a difference in the last 2 years of gutting the EPA and other environmental onslaiughts?!! But here we are at fund-raising time, and surprise! there they are! Do not be fooled!

2

Trump lost the popular vote. Removing the Electoral College would give better results

Unity Level 7 Oct 21, 2019

The Electoral College is an integral part of the US Constitution that establishes our governments. Good luck changing that, no simple law of Congress can effect it. As an election official, I am well aware of the Election Code governing the process. Millions of provisional ballots were not counted (happens every election) because they only get counted when they can change the outcome. If the total number of provisional ballots is less than the margin of victory, they are simply thrown out - uncounted, so it is a fallacy to claim who won the REAL popular vote. The winner take all provision discourages voters from the minority party in every state so the outcome of 2016 would be very different if it were a true national vote rather than a union of states each deciding their choice. Proportional representation would be the way to go, but as for ranked choice voting... changes not a thing for me. I am not playing that game, I make my choice and stand behind it. Earn my vote, I am ignoring bullshit voter shaming by the Wall Street Democrats who betrayed the working man. Russia did not send tens of millions of good paying jobs to the 3rd world and Communist China.

2

Politicians for the most part are like evangelicals, full of shit, in it for the money, take advantage of the weak, and could care less if they fuck up the world for the younger generation.

2

Pretty sure that I just heard from a "reliable" source that the Green Party is a Russian psy-op confirmed. Lol

Sure, if you think Hillary Clinton, the one who started the whole Russian paranoia thing, to deflect attention from her email scandal, is a reliable source . . .

@Archeus_Lore Now that's funny🤣🤣🤣

2

I agree. Both parties have a history of bad dealings when they have a majority. A recent article in the "Smithsonian" has an article about Democrats misbehavior in the late 40's and early 50's. I consider myself an independent and would join a 3rd party if it was really concerned about planetary health superseding human needs. We do, sort of have a 3rd party, Libertarians, but I find them further right of the mainstream republicans and hypocritical.

Reminds me of an old joke; "Libertarians are Republicans that like to smoke weed."

1

The two party system is the monopoly. The voters are and have been baited for years

There are many political parties, it is a winner take all system that frightens people into supporting lesser evil. Look where it has taken us... cowards!

1

I do not see a third party candidate as throwing 2020 towards Trump and friends. My view is it would do the opposite. Note that the GOP is not doing any primaries. I must admit that both parties are not so keen on a third party running at this time. Dems want to keep away from extremes but they appear to have a great need of organization.

1

Our two party system has been a sham the entire time. The power never truly existed with the parties, it was always in the hands of the populists. This problem with democracy has existed since it's very inception. People don't vote based on what would actually be best for the nation or even for themselves, which is why the US isn't a democracy, it's a republic. The same democratic reforms suggested would actually lower the bar for populists to gain office, making it easier for demagogues and political outsiders to gain control.

I think it's a bit naive to think that trump is somehow part of any party, when he doesn't really play by republicans rules, let alone anyone's. He came from outside party lines, because he realized they don't matter much.

Right now we have a system where instead of having many political parties we have lobbyists who more or less bribe political candidates to support their positions once they get into office. If we were to dissolve our two party system and eliminate lobbying, we should expect to see parties arise representing each of these industries. For example, there is no "military industrial complex" party, but without the two party system we would occasionally see direct representatives from these types of industries take office, instead of having to pay for politicians to support them.

This should have the effect where the richest organizations will "buy" the votes of people through propaganda and pay their way into office to help themselves. The fact that we see this in the real world is a major hint that this is more or less what is already going on, hence the two party system being a sham.

I have found the worst aspect of the lobbyist are those that are 'special interest.' There are groups that are general interest but we seldom hear of them and they don't have the financial clout as the special interest ones do.

0

the word "Democrat" does not a democrat make. We need to welcome the threat of a struggle for political dominance. A 2-Dimensional system leads to 2-D solutions.

@OwlInASack thats short sighted, plus weve already got catastrophic results

@OwlInASack i don't agree.

@OwlInASack ~ There is no down time to the election cycle. We have municipal and county contests in 3 days and every odd year. We have state and Congressional elections in the other even years. Your excuse to not fix the system is self defeating. I recall the Democrats screaming under George Bush how we were all going to be doomed. Well here we are and here we still are after three years of Trump who hasn't really changed much policy wise from Obama. Only real difference is style, how they present themselves to the public. What a shame, we are gong no where as a nation but down the toilet to both corporate Democrats and their friends in the GOP.

@ExculpatoryLover gee, I dunno, gutting the EPA, trying to harm LBGTQ people, damaging our educational system, trying to control women's bodies/life...etc........."not much change from Obama"?????? On what planet, sweetie....

0

Given the fact that about 1/3 of our voting age population is composted of marginally educated, ethnocentric, religious people who feel left out and not in control of a culture that is changing and that they do not understand, and often easily appealed to by right wing demagogues, the emergence of a real third party would create the threat of that group coming to dominate our culture, and politics -- leading to the creation of a tyrannical, repressive and vicious permanent dictatorship.

@Seeker3CO Holy shit... Hillary Clinton is the GREATEST threat to our democracy... she literally rigged the election in 2016. The DNC attorneys admitted it is their right to do so in open court in their attempt to dismiss the litigation against them which is still pending court action. Oy Veh

@ExculpatoryLover I am no Hillary fan, but you sound like one of those idiotic conspiracy theory driven right wing nuts.

@wordywalt ~ Well I am not even GOP. I am an elected Democrat for over a decade, an election official in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. I am citing election fact. Here is a link to the litigation still waiting court action... call the courts a conspiracy theory if you can not stand reality. [ivn.us]

0

Seems right

0

Sending thoughts (prayers optional).

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