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What is more damaging in Western societies religion or conspiratorial thinking?

DanielOuka 4 Apr 24
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11

Isn't religion a kind of conspiracy?

The worst kind.
Also seems to have lasted longer than all the others to boot.

6

Both threats seem to come mostly form the same people.

Both are caused by a general lack of applied "critical thinking skills".

...that started early in childhood, because parents want their child to grow up to be a responsible adult. And the majority of society has used religion as a benchmark, on how to be a good person!

Ever have what you think might be an original comment, and then you scroll down and find someone who's already said exactly what you were thinking? Well, you're that guy! 😉 Couldn't agree more!

@Freedompath "Responsible" or Obedient "adults?"

6

Religion.

Sometimes conspiracy theories are correct. Religion is always bullshit.

The term 'conspiracy theory' is invariably used as a pejorative and generally connotes unfalsifiable circular reasoning in the absence of evidence. What conspiracy theories are you aware of that have been proven correct?

@p-nullifidian

When the Poles first started reporting to the Western Allies that the Nazis had set up death camps in conquered Polish territory, it was seen as a conspiracy theory, viewed as hyperbole and wild exaggeration to motivate the Allies to try harder to liberate Poland. When the Red Army arrived there, of course, that conspiracy theory turned out to be, unfortunately, true.

@RoboGraham The term 'conspiracy theory' is a relatively contemporary one, often involving government cover-ups, secret societies and the manipulation of world events. What you've described is a simple case of 'rumors' regarding the existence of Nazi death camps having later been verified. I will grant you that rumors, which have been with us since the dawn of our race, may sometimes be true. But rumors are not the same as a conspiracy theory.

@p-nullifidian

Things can exist before a term is created to describe them.

Conspiracy Theory- a theory that rejects the standard explanation for an event and instead credits a covert group or organization with carrying out a secret plot

The standard explanation was that those poor people were being resettled in labor camps. The conspiracy theorists rejected that explanation.

The Gestapo was not a covert group but they carried out their atrocities secretly and the group within the gestapo which was actually working in the death camps was kept covert and under the radar.

The government of the Third Reich was most definitely attempting to cover up the fact that they were committing the Holocaust.

@RoboGraham You are mixing apples and oranges, sir. The behavior of the Third Reich parallels most totalitarian systems, where propaganda, a powerful ruling elite (such as the SS) and hidden agendas are the norm. However, such systems do not fall into the category of 'conspiracy theory.' Apart from Hitler's Germany, perhaps you could provide more contemporary examples of conspiracy theories that were proven true?

@p-nullifidian

I'm not saying that the third reich and it's system of propaganda, the SS, and hidden agendas fall into the category of a conspiracy theory, I'm saying that when the Poles started telling people about the death camps, they thought of it as a conspiracy theory.

It doesn't happen often that they turn out to be true, point is, it is possible, unlike religion, which is always bullshit.

@K9Kohle789

This is too far out for me.

5

Your "either-or" question is a fallacy.

Your question presents only two options for a complex problem with many potential solutions. In this fallacy, one of those options is correct and the other is incorrect.

4

They both are.

4

Those categories are too broad, and have too much overlap to answer meaningfully.

4

Both are damaging.

4

Neither and both. The issue is poor thinking, those are just two of its many manifestations. Improving schooling can help, alas, this is an issue that has existed throughout human history. I think it is better now.

Also, sometimes people do know they are not rational about something, but are subsumed by hate, bigotry, etc. See: racism, homophobia, anti-semitism, etc.

3

Both; and they often go hand in hand.

3

It all comes down to thought processes. Religion fosters a thinking process that can easily be carried over when a person leaves the religion. So we have those who blindly follow "science." But science is not as exact as one would think. What is touted as gospel one year can be disproven the next. AND one can, perhaps, not fully understand the science they are espousing. There has to be another common denominator...For me, it begins with an open mind which accepts "I don't know" as the beginning. Then patience, giving time for one's truth to emerge, and not being persuaded by what everyone else accepts as gospel. What makes sense to me? When doing research, seeking out ALL the sides, especially the ones that are hidden. When you are open, all sorts of the unexpected can fall in. But you have to be able to bear the consequences of living outside the mainstream.

The consequences are well worth it. We arrive alone and leave the same way. Being a majority of one in native reasoning sometimes exacts a fair price of becoming closer to our amazing selves.

If you really know what proper science is, one cannot blindly follow it. That wouldn't be the real thing. Good science is properly done and then we impartially see wherever the evidence leads. So blindly following (real) science is a contradiction in terms.

3

Is fear not the base for both?

3

The most damaging are total system ideologies (those which purport to include and explain everything), be they religious or political' and/or the culture of greed.

Agreed! However these systems are not typically fasioned from whole cloth. They often take years to construct their latticework onto a superstructure. Which is to say, time is needed to come up with more lies and alibis to slap onto the original untruth. Just as Rome wasn't built in a day, most religions and conspiracy theories have, over the years, added new baloney into their sandwiches.

"[E]very religion has for its foundation a miracle -- that is to say, a violation of nature -- that is to say, a falsehood."
"A fact never went into partnership with a miracle. Truth scorns the assistance of wonders. A fact will fit every other fact in the universe, and that is how you can tell whether it is or is not a fact. A lie will not fit anything except another lie."
Robert Green Ingersoll

3

Religion itself is filled with conspiratorial thinking.

3

Well, my loathing of religions is well known.

On conspiracies, the more I see of the corruption, officially santioned criminality, collusion, and perversion of good governance in the US, the more I understand why so many people there see conspiring going on at the highest levels. Of course, I have lived through the 60s assassinations, Pentagon papers, Watergate, CIA and FBI revealed criminal collusion, just to name some, so I tend to take nothing at face value anymore. Power corrupts, power colludes and power conspires to conceal it. This the great lesson of the past 50 years.

2

Not much of a difference as far as I can see.

2

What is most damaging is promoting action based on faith instead of evidence and reason. This is common in both religion and conspiracy theory.

2

There is a difference?

2

Western society religion???
Huh. I think the religious problems started long before said "western societies" came to be. And the same for conspiracies....
PEOPLE, do that insane stuff all the time. It is not location specific.

2

In a way, they are both based on distrust of the system. Both can be very beneficial in moderation and both tend towards insanity and/or violence when they go too far.

2

Aren't they the same thing?

2

Conspiratorial thinking? It's a lot of speculation and delusions but some turn out to be right just like a broken clock is right twice a day...

2

Do you mean people believing in conspiracy theories ?. Most of them in circulation are so crazy that only nutjobs believe in them like the current one that the corona virus is caused by 5G transmission. so I would suggest that religion is more harmful.

1

I think both are dangerous. Skeptical, scientific, and critical thinking skills are so important.

It's amazing how often the simple fact of asking, "Where did you read that? Can you send me a link?" Turns a conversation from "Did you KNOW?!" into being rephrased into a much softer and more flexible, "I might have seen..."

It's like verbal judo.

1

Most of the religious folk I am acquainted with also subscribe to conspiratorial thinking. When a person can't think critically they'll fall for anything.

gearl Level 8 Apr 25, 2020
1

It's like arguing which came first: the chicken or the egg?

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