The World Nake dBike Ride is a protest against our continued use of fossil fuels. It is fun, an dyes, it can be silly at times, but a clothed bike ride would not gain the same publicity about the issue. It is a veyr low bost way to gain publicity for protests in oruj society.

@snytiger6 That's for a good cause.

How do you nude bikers deal with the bugs? Its bad enough with a shirt and shorts. But dealing with them down yonder whilst pedaling?

I am aware that Bali has nude beaches, but they are also a part of Indonesia, which although Bali is mostly Hindu, Indonesia has a lot of Muslim extremists. In either case Hindu or Muslim, women do nto have equal status or rights. Without legal equality, social nudism is problematic, due to a lack of legal equality.

@snytiger6 wait just a minute you are obviously one with issues with Islam. Only a very small part of the population, the highest in Islam, may be radical unlike Christians in America. Bali is a semi autonomous island where women for many years worn no tops until about 20 years ago hand stop the practice due to Americans, Australians, and Euros were googoo eyes. Indonesia is a relatively moderate state and let’s talk about legal equality such as women in this country are underpaid by 20-30 percent of men. Also check out the murder rate of women by men. Also research LDS and women..... I could go on but I think we need to be careful when throwing stones. Asaalam Alechum

@Millerski25 I only stated that women are not considered equal in either the Hindu or Muslim faiths.

I myself was raised in the Mormon faith, and in that too women were not considered equal. although in America women do (supposedly) have equal right.

In my mind any kind of inequality is unacceptable.

@Millerski25 wage gap is disproven, and men murder women at a 2-1 rate. not nearly as crazy lopsided as you seem to be implying (not that Im condoning it by any stretch, just correcting misinformation.)

I believe I have read there is actually more than just one park in Germany where nudity is allowed.

I live near Portland, Oregon (USA), and there if people see soemone naked, it is really no big deal. I've done several naked bike rides through the city there.

I do a lot of reading and find it interesting how in historical novels as Europeans reach the Americas they make it a priority to teach natives to be ashamed of their bodies. Nakedness was nto really a big deal to most native cultures.

The truth is that we are taught to feel ashamed. It doesn't come naturally (even if the bible says that it does). It is a bit of a farce for everyone to cover up, even though everyone already knows what is under the clothes..

@snytiger6 I once met an Australian Aboriginal who was a bit of a celebrity, i had a long talk with him. He asked me: "What do you think was the worst thing [for us] that Europeans brought?" I guessed guns, maybe the bible, ..?... but no, he said "Clothes." And seeing the poor natives looking extremely awkward packed away in victorian garb, you can see why. Shoes included. He said they stopped feeling the Earth.

@ZebZaman I have read a couple of books by Michael Talbot about the founding of Australia (there are three altogether, but I haven't red the third yet), and when they talked about snow in winter (our summer), I wondered how Aborigines managed to keep warm, but they must have done just fine.

the same in hamburg, my former hometown. nudity in the city's summer parks

It is common etiquette for nudists to carry towels to sit on for hygienic purposes (makes me wonder if author Douglas Adams, who wrote the Hitchhikers's Guide To the Galaxy" series wasn't a nudist).

@snytiger6, common etiquette, like common sense, is not so common, I'm afraid.

@Condor5 Sadly, you are right.

You don't find it obvious by how someone acts, or behaves, as to what their intentions are?

@snytiger6 I'm just wondering, if two people are laying on a beach, both looking around, how do you tell with what intention each one is looking around? One could be looking around to enjoy the view of the ocean, the other could be enjoying... other sights, if you get my meaning. I'm not a mind reader.

@Paul4747 How does that differ from two people on a beach wearing swimsuits or clothes?

People are animals, and some thought of sex will happen when you look at someone you find attractive. I think, it is more a matter of whether or not you follow it up by annoying the person you are looking at.

I myself can admire another pesons beauty without thinking in sexual terms.

You can't. The rule is you never ACT inappropriately ! Respect is big. Everyone is equal.It's not about looking ( although you will ) it's about the freedom of not wearing clothes.

I know in NY women can go topless. However in Arkansas rather than let women go topless they actually made it illegal for men to go without shirts (although for men it is usually not enforced).

Unfortunately, think of the sexual harassment in city centres, and probable accompanying violence. I feel society should ban nudity in crowded areas (imagine a crowd of strange men pressing up against you and pretending it's because of the crowd.). In certain areas nudity rules could be relaxed, to allow people to be topless legally. (Some of the men I've seen topless, or dressed in a vest, in your neck of the woods are gross, by the way. So if they can go topless, why not women?) Beaches should allow people to be topless, unless designated otherwise. ... and certain, well marked areas should allow full nudity, provided there are warning signs prominently displayed so those who wish to stay away may do so.
Maybe you should suggest it to Caroline Lucas!

@Petter do I detect you're local to me? Caroline Lucas is of course our local Green MP although I don't actually live in her constituency. Actually Brighton has its own designated nudist beach, I don't use it, but although it caused a stir locally when first opened, nobody takes any notice now...

@Astrantia I live in the extreme South-East of Spain, but visit England regularly. My son lives in Banstead and my daughter used to live in Ardingly, but recently moved to Godalming. I own a house in Hailsham, very near to Newhaven, but it is let.
There are designated nudist beaches here, which likewise receive little attention.

I have both encountered naked people in public and have sometimes been a naked person in public and contrary to your ideas of what would happen, about the only reaction was some people took out their camera phones to take photos. The vast majority of people didn't have any reaction at all. There was once or twice, but not in the same day, a rabid right wing religious fanatic who would shout at us, but that was the only rare negative reaction.

Before, anyone gets ideas about going naked after reading the above though, you shoudl familiarize yourself with local nudity laws and be familiar with what you can and cannot do legally. I was living in Oregon which has very nude friendly laws.

In regards to item #5 on the list above, in nudist culture it is considered proper nudist etiquette and common in nudist culture to carry a towel or something else with you to sit on, for sanitary reasons, and if possible to shower or thoroughly clean yourself after dedicating.

Wow! You got me laughing my ass off greenchilehound. That was hilarious.

I think it's great satire.

@snytiger6, after dedicating what, may I ask?

It is considered proper etiquette in nudist culture to carry towels to sit on for hygienic purposes.

I did not know that, but it makes sense.

This could be argued with the chicken or the egg type of argument. Can cultural attitudes change first without allowing more nudity in society first, or will allowing more nudity in society change public attitudes to where it would be as accepted as it is in many parts of Europe? Either way, nothing would change all that quickly.

The real question as i see it, is should people have the freedom to be nude if they so choose, and my answer would be yet. So, although nothing will happen over night, I'd like to see our society and culture move in the direction where nudity is more acceptable. Especially so, because most of our taboos against nudity are based in religious dogmas.

Yes, pervs do go to the nude beaches, but natruists/nudists either ignore tham or laugh at them, and they are no more than a minor annoyance at the beach. The big annoyance is that the general public get a warped view of naturists/nudists in general beign sexual in purpose from the very few and infrequent pervs.

So nudge them gradually. Cultural attitudes do change. It used to be a crime to engage in sexual behavior with someone of the same sex and the idea of a same sex marriage was risible. Today, it's the law of the land. But it didn't happen all at once, it took a lot of hard work making incremental changes until the concept of tolerance gained a critical mass of social acceptance. Maybe naturism can walk a similar path.

If the religious hate was untaught and nature considered natural, a lot of twisted sex attitudes would go away. Bodies could be just bodies. Cultures have perverted sex and the body and it could be untaught. But, nudity would be choice, like wearing shorts in the snow or pajamas when shopping. Who cares if no one is hurt?

I once had a body that was considered "ideal". I had to exercise for at least three hours a day, at least for at least five days a week in order to just maintain it. Now, I just have an "average" body, which means no definition and some extra pounds in unflattering places. There really is nto much point in all that effort unless you make a living as a model.

Life is too short to be worried about what other people think about my current body condition. I am happy and comfortable with myself.

Nudity doesn't mean you lose your common sense. Protection where it's needed.

With you there, sometimes I cook shirtless and I am usually surprised how far hot oil can go!

I'm with you on this.

Me too! I really don't want to see the swinging nutsacks, bushy bushes and floppin titties everywhere I go. Lol...put some damn clothes on....
But swimming topless is a wonderful and free feeling when you have breasts....

No, not a doctor. I just have a BA in sociology. I am pretty well read though. Although I only have a BA, I also completed more than twice the credits i needed to graduate, because i just love to learn about virtually everything.

@snytiger6 Dammit, Jim, I'm a sociologist, not a doctor!

@pnullifidian LMAO...

It often amazes me how many people who are atheist still hold onto the dogmas and biases they were taught by religion. Feeling fear guilt and shame about personal nudity and the nudity of others being a prime example.

@snytiger6 I agree 100%. I find myself still shaking out of the different "rules" I was taught since infancy each and every day. The bravery of it all, in my opinion, stems from the conscious decision one must make to break past those invisible barriers. The rest follows.

@soundofthereign you bring up a good point that in and of itself would be a good discussion. Those pesky "rules" really stick in a person's brain. Social conditioning....powerful.

gymnasium means 'to exercise naked.'

@GoldenMean actually it means Naked place

'...much to the horror of the jewish peoples...'? The early Jews were not monotheists and shared much with the peoples around them for a long time, even to 3rd CE. If you have sources to share, I'd love to know these. I'm always interested in separating fact from fiction.

Also, I lifted the following from an online encyclopedia:
'...recent studies of human lice suggest that clothing may have become commonplace in human society around 72,000 years ago...' [en.wikipedia.org]. I knew the Jews were an ancient civilization, but...?

Now, regarding the Greeks: I've read there were double standards for female nudity in Greece, the exception being the Spartans.

To see any human body as "disgusting" is something people are taught to do. People do nto have a natural abhorrence to th enuman body. It is a culturally learned stigma.

What is considering "disgusting" would vary a lot from one person to another. So who gets to decide what is disgusting? People raised with bad body image caused by religion?

@snytiger6 I don't find anything aesthetically pleasing about an old saggy or fat body (and I have one). This is not to say people shouldn't be naked at say the beach where the context is appropriate. Young fit people and children can look beautiful naked. Just look at all the art work dedicated to the naked form. When my boys were little, I thought them beautiful naked. But if I had thought that someone was sexually aroused by the sight of my naked sons, I would be revolted. As a parent I would want to protect my kids from the eyes of perverts so for this reason I'm not comfortable about kids (who aren't able to give legal consent) coerced into public nudity.

Although, it may not seem logical, that is true. In both cases those against nudity and those against the Buraq are mostly (often fanatical) Christians tryign ti impose their religious belifs and/or values onto others.

I think it depends on wht part of the country you are in. My experience in the Pacific Northwest (Oregon and Washington) is that nudity isn't really a big deal. Although legally Oregon is much more nude friendly than Washington. I have been told hat Vermont as pretty nude friendly laws too

@snytiger6
I believe you're correct in your observations. I was thinking about the context (is that the right word?) of being nude. I cannot imagine any organization I've worked for allowing nudity in the workplace. What about visiting an art museum? Or say, attending the Opera? A courtroom? Would you wear a great coat in the winter traveling to a restaurant and then remove it to be seated? I don't see this happening here in southern Ohio.

@bigpawbullets I actually went to a slothing optional day at the Portland (Oregon) Art Museum. It was right before the World Naked Bike ride.. (Th =e Portland WNBR attracts more than 10,000 riders each year).

As for workplaces and businesses, they can have dress codes, and most do.

Did you know it's legal to be without a top (women) in NY City?

@cyndiann Does that apply to men, too? Seems to me that men go around bare-chested quite a lot in hot weather. No reason why women shouldn't as well, if they want to.

@CeliaVL well yeah and that's the point. Women should be treated the same as men under the law, including being topfree.

For persons who have nto experienced social nudity, but have only been naked either for sex or bathing, a first time social nudity experience may cause a man to inadvertantly get hard, because the body has been conditioned to think "naked equals sex". I myself spent the first few minutes at a nude beach laying on my stomach until the problem went away. Then I got used to being naked, and never had such an issue again.

So yeah, it hapens. Generally nudist etiquette says that you just ignore it and do nothign to draw attention to it and let it go away on its own.

personally I prefer nudist clubs to nude beachees. Much different atmosphere.

You can always take care of yourself beforehand.

It might happen at first, but like most things, you become numb to it. After a while it's just another set of tits. Honestly, you can see almost everything at most beaches today anyway with some bikinis. Do you keep a raging boner at the beach all day when and if you go?

Your profesor's arguement really breaks down when you realize all the tribal cultures cultures around the world where females go bare breasted and it is not serialized at all (by other tribal members anyway).

Although National Geographic never did a photo spread, as even they reach a point of prudishness, there are tribal cultures where nudity was always the norm. Body shame is nto a universal cultural value.

I like your way of thinking!

Women in Canada have the right to be topless. If men can go topless, why not women. Any argument against women being topless are silly. Equal rights trumps puritan morality

My experience at nudist clubs is that even when peoepl see someone they are attracted to they don't automatically get aroused. The reason why7 not is context. (the idea of a proper tiem and place for everything).

There are cases of spontaneous erections at nudist clubs. Generally, people just ignore it, and any criticisms are only if the person tries to purposefully draw attention to it. Peopel generaly just ignore it, and it tends to go away after a few minutes.

You have a good pint and I would probably be escorted out and off the beach do to a perpetual rrection and would make me look like I never belonged or am a schmuck

@Millerski25 I'll admit the first time I went naked at a nude beach, I pretty laid on my stomach for the first five to ten minutes waiting for an erection to go away, but that was the only time i had that kind of problem.

We are conditioned to associate nudity with sex and bathing. However once you get used to the context of beign nude in other situations erections aren't really an issue

Having been to nude beaches and nudist clubs, i cna assure you that you actually get used to seeign people nude and problems with "arousal" (erections) are not problem once a person gets used to nudity.

That beign said, for many guys, a first trip to a nude beach may have them spendign the first fifteen minutes or so layingon their stomaches, until they get used their surroundings.

@Hercules3000 In most venues yes. There are imo exceptions.

[slate.com]
[besafemeds.com]

Unfounded fear

@jondspen yeah, okay,I took care of my brother in law as he died of AIDS, 6'3" , 83lbs at the end. You can bet your ass after cleaning up fountains of bodily fluids as he wasted away over 6 months, I got tested! Clothing is a sanitary barrier, just look at how operating room personnel are dressed, for the protection of Everyone in there.

If public nhudity were legal, and seeign nude persons were nto so uncommon, then it wodl no longer be distracting for drivers.

It is true that not everyone woudl be fitowever, I think it is more of a question of beign free to choose whether or nto to wear clothing, and not for the entertainment of other people when one chooses not to.

To say you can't do that because of MY discomfort, means you want to limit the freedoms of others based on your own hang ups. I am nto tryign to make any acusions here, but just trying to turn things a bit so you might see things from a different perspective.

We are taught to feel guilt fear and shame associated with nudity, and most of that teaching originally was based in religious dogma. Few peopel have actually questioned if there is any actual reasoning behind the cultural norm of always being clothed in public at all times. As everyone knows what everyoen else has under their clothes, why do we go to such great lengths to hideit from each other?

I agree with you. Not only do clothes protect the wearer from the elements, clothing on others can protect us from them. What if they didnt wipe well and sit in public. So the next person sits in feces. Or you have a bladder leak? And clothing also helps conceal smells. Keep your clothes on??