?

Great! Thanks for your contribution

444 studies, 178 of which methodologically rigorous, is nonsense to you?

@Lucignolo yup

@Cutiebeauty Sadly being atheist also doesn’t increase the likelihood of being smart ?

You win with the research page. it does seem that religious beliefs insulate some people from depression. It is known that people that do not have as much as self-bias about life. it seems realists are less happy. [psychologytoday.com]

And you say that because you’ve done your research? If you had you’d know there is plenty of data, but different studies have reached sometimes opposite conclusions. That doesn’t mean the hypothesis isn’t worth investigating, quite the opposite. It means it’s a complex subject that requires investigation.

Did you bother to even check if your statement was correct before reaching a verdict? Obviously you simply stated what you like to believe and dismissed anything that may prove you wrong. Congratulations, you’ve acted like a religious apologetic.

@Lucignolo Your arrogant, defensive response is laughable. Cite me significant and scientifically valid studies which link atheism with depre4ssion and give the title of the study and the journal in which it was published, along with the publication date. As an atheist since my 20s, I always found freedom from religion freeing and positive, rather than depressing. I find it difficult to believe those most people feel otherwise.

@wordywalt There is a MOUNTAIN of evidence and articles. I don’t have time to list many, I’m guessing you don’t trust me nor believe me. Buy access to MEDLINE database on published studies and you’ll find many many many references and studies on the subject.

@wordywalt so what now? Are you going to say sorry?

@wordywalt

From a well known atheist website, in case you think I’m biased: [friendlyatheist.patheos.com]?

[google.com]

[adherents.com]?

All these don’t prove it’s dedini true. There are articles that state the opposite. It’s a very interesting controversial subject. What’s not interesting is a priori denial.

@Lucignolo The titles of several of the studies appear to be irrelevant to the topic, and I would have to read the others for me to be satisfied of the validity of their methodology and conclusions. Unfortunately, at age 81, I no longer read well. I would opine that religion, itself, leads to more depression than atheism.

@Lucignolo @wordywait
Here is a review of religious and spiritual factors in depression from 2012. In case someone doesn't know, a review discusses all relevant research. There doesn't seems to be any conclusion that atheism and depression are linked. There are factors both directions. [ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

@Stephanie99 First, thanks for sharing. Great resource. Your contribution alone plus some others were worth getting all the hate I received for posting this question. Some people have really provided amazing and useful insights or information. You are one of them, thank you.

But the conclusion of the study reads and I quote: “in the majority of studies, everything else being equal, Religious/Spiritual involvement is related to less depression, particularly in the context of life stress. The systematic review discussed above indicates many more studies show possible benefits from R/S compared to those that show possible harm (61% versus 6% of studies).”

How can you call 61% vs 6% “factors in both directions”? I still wouldn’t choose a comforting lie over truth, but it’s hard to deny there’s comfort in religion that’s harder to find in objective reality.

@Stephanie99 Thanks!

@Lucignolo The 61% vs 6% is number of studies. It doesn't take into account the number of subjects in the studies, who did them, how well they were done etc.

Interesting that you leave out this quote "a number of high-quality studies show that R/S involvement may increase the risk of depression in certain populations (those with family problems) or may worsen the prognosis of depression (a single study in substance abusers).

It is important to try to be objective when doing research. It is easy to just find what you are looking for.

@Stephanie99 Oh I had simply missed that.

I’m not arguing in favor or against. I wrote many times in this post that it’s a controversial subject.

I honestly don’t know the answer. If I was to guess I’d say that neither increases likelihood of depression, but for people that become depressed, religion may be an additional coping mechanisms (on top of the many available) that’s not available to atheists. Belief is one coping mechanisms, to which community and support should be added. Feeling loved and having a sense of belonging can certainly help.

I still wouldn’t switch truth with comfort.

@Stephanie99 And it’s not the number of studies. It’s cumulative results.

“Of the 178 most methodologically rigorous studies, 119 (67%) find inverse relationships between R/S and depression. Religious beliefs and practices may help people to cope better with stressful life circumstances, give meaning and hope, and surround depressed persons with a supportive community.”

@Lucignolo Other studies for which I don't feel like finding links have shown that it's the community. We secularists need to work on that.

@Stephanie99 i agree 100%

I’m not sure there is any evidence. There’s evidence that shows drug induced mystical experiences (and even not drug induced) can significantly reduce depression. The same results are true when those drugs are administered to atheists as far as I know. They simply work.

It’s not just chemistry. When those drugs are administered but don’t produce a mistycal experience, patients are a lot less likely to benefit.

Religions have claimed ownership over mystical experiences, so we atheists dismiss them altogether. I don’t knew. I don’t expect to find the answer here, but I thought it’s be interesting to ask. Many of you feel insulted I even dared to ask.

I don’t make any claims. I asked a question.

@Lucignolo you said "It seems to me that a relevant number of people i this community are depressed and/or suicidal. It seems the percentage over the total exceeds the average overall population." this isn't a claim? it's fine to ask but that is NOT all you did. i'm not insulted that you asked. i'm not even insulted that you made a claim with which i disagree. i do disagree with it, though.

g

@genessa yes, true. I stated my impression, but I didn’t present it as factual. I said, This is my impression, do you think it’s correct? You asked for evidence, and I never stated there was any. I was basing my presumption on several posts I ran into of suicidal people and based on many people speaking about their depression. I understand it proves nothing.

Your obviously felt strongly about me even daring to propose such a question or insinuating there might be a correlation between lack of belief and depression.

As a matter of fact there are studies on the subject, but I didn’t investigate their soundness and results conflict among different studies.

I personally don’t think atheism causes depression, but coping with it may be different for an atheist vs a religious person. Also, there is strong evidence on mystical experiences and their capacity to improve addiction, depression and other conditions. Mystical experiences say nothing about the existence of god, but it’s a tool we atheists have pushed aside that could have value.

As you can see, it’s not a silly subject, and dismissing it is a mistake.

@Lucignolo i feel strongly about you? i have no feelings about you at all. i don't know you. my strong feelings may be obvious to you, but they don't actually exist, so your perceptions are once more skewed. i don't know, either, where you get the impression that atheists have pushed aside the tool of the mystical experience. can you back THAT up, or are you immune from having to explain anything because you didn't swear to it on... oh wait, i was going to say a bible lol.

as for dealing with depression, i have no evidence, nor have you presented any, that coping with depression is any more different for the believer and the nonbeliever than it is for any two people, apart from the believer's possible reliance on prayer or faith; everyone is different.

i think as subjects go it's being presented here in a careless manner and i dismiss your premise, yes. that doesn't mean i have strong feelings about you. i gave neither you nor the topic a nanosecond of thought after responding until i saw i had a notification.

g

@genessa Wow... I’m surprised you are an atheist because your reasoning doesn’t look very sound to me. I wrote: “you have strong feelings about me even daring to pose such a question”.

English is only one of my second languages, as I’m from Italy, but it’s obvious you either don’t bother to read full sentences or don’t understand grammar. The sentence means you have strong feelings towards THE QUESTION I posed, NOT ME. I am not the question.

I provided a lot of evidence to back up the claim, but again you didn’t bother to read. So here I go AGAIN:

[google.com]

[adherents.com]?

[friendlyatheist.patheos.com]?

[forums.osmihelp.org]?

Did you bother to read any of them. Of course not. You just type what you like to believe and stick to it no matter what. Sounds familiar, misplaced apologetic?

@genessa Yes, many atheists are also not spiritual with many exceptions. Generally speaking most atheists are fond of seeking the truth through science and evidence, not experiences. Atheists are usually skeptics, so claims concerning truths that can’t be backed up by evidence or objective observation aren’t usually accepted by most atheists. Aliens abductions, visions, trance states, mystical experiences, and such, all fall into a category of subjective claims that can’t be proven. So what you are saying is that I need to prove that it’s true that atheists generally don’t accept those claims or the truths discovered through those experiences? It’s like asking me to prove that believers believe in a god.

No, I’m not doing that or backing that one up. It’s obvious within the definition of atheists and skeptics. In order to have a conversation some common obvious ground must be agreed upon, otherwise any word will require backup. Are you saying atheists in general are inclined to spirituality and mystical experiences? Are you saying atheists in general are inclined towards the supernatural? Mystical experiences are classified as such, they supposedly uncover truths about human consciousness, the essence of reality, the universe. Those truths are discovered through the experience (hence the name mystical EXPERIENCES) and not objective data. Are you truly stating I need to prove atheists and mystical experiences generally speaking don’t go hand in hand?

You didn’t give the topic a nanosecond of thought? Maybe you should have since you have such strong faith in your opinions despite having no actual idea or knowledge on the subject. Claiming knowledge and making assumptions on a subject based on one’s own biases and presumptions is called ignorance.

Good luck

@Lucignolo no rock here. and i know nastiness when i see it. 'bye.

g

Ok. Glad you know everything. Maybe you are god and we are all mistaken?? ??

@Lucignolo My dear Sir, has no-one ever told that sarcasm IS the lowest form of wit?

what it all amounts to in that article is that a large % of americans were conned into depending on religion to improve their standard of living whereas the scandinavians didn't buy into that BS & were able to prevent the greedy, sociopathic elites from increasing income inequality anywhere near the obscene levels now seen in the US.
as Napoleon said: 'we need religion to keep the poor from killing the rich'.

Very interesting @skado!! Thank you!!

@callmedubious yes... That’s a great article. There are many more and not all have the same results. It’s a complex subject.

i will add to this thoughtful explanation that some atheists never went through any trauma associated with becoming atheists; that not all atheists used to be christians; that there are an awful lot of factors that lead to depression but have nothing whatsoever to do with religion or lack thereof; that not every atheist comes here and that not everyone who comes here is an atheist, though we are the majority on this site.

g

You have provided an interesting analysis. You bring up many valid points. It’s certainly true that this site is not a good representation of society, it’s true it attracts only some type of people, it’s true that this is also a dating site. I never claimed I want to obtain results that have “clinical validity” though. I’m not trying to earn my PHD based on the results to this question.

Given your correct observations, it would make no sense to ask any opinions at all because the results will never be objective and reflective of the atheist population as a whole. Obviously the results of any poll conducted within this space, will never meet the criteria of scientific reseach and it wouldn’t withstand the scrutiny of a peer reviewed journal. Does that mean it makes no sense to ask? Does it mean any finding is useless and severely biased? It’s a question posed to a big group of atheists/agnostic. If it’s good enough for me, why do you have a problem with it?

My thesis and my doctoral project thankfully is on the effects of repeated inhaled anesthetic exposure on the developing brain of children younger than three years old. I don’t come here to conduct research for my doctorate. I come here to have a chat. Some people find it outrageous that I dare to ask some questions.

Who cares. It’s just a question on the internet in an agnostic forum. No one gets killed. It’s not a big deal.

@genessa ok. so?

@Lucignolo -- A bit of an unwarranted tirade, don't you think? You also, in this diatribe, inserted ideas and words into my response that didn't exist and aren't consistent with what was said.

@evidentialist I don’t think I inserted ideas. If I did it wasn’t purposeful.