Whoa! Gipsy!!!
Stand by for <written> abuse!!!!

@bigpawbullets Not Again!!!!

Us guys really do suck far too often.

@kmdskit3 I don't put all of you guys in the same basket. I know there are some truly good ones out there.

I never realized just how bad this problem was or how often this sort of stuff occurred until joining this website and the growth of the #metoo movement. Hopefully the growing consciousness of this problem will lead to changes in our society.

@BlackDove I do try to not behave so reprehensibly but that doesn't mean I'm immune. I think it's important for all guys to recognize that kind of stupidity is within us.

The only prison movie I've ever watched is Shawshank Redemption, and yes assault happened in that movie. I am not about to hate on you, I agree with what you're saying. Yes, men can be victimized by women, and men are usually reluctant to go to the authorities because of the scorn they will endure. And men do horrible things to other men, or anyone they perceive as being weaker than they are. As a people we really haven't evolved much.

@HippieChick58 Thank you, I wasn't sure if anyone would get what I was trying to say.
But yeah, I think it should be that every one, men and women alike should be treated with respect, and kindness.

@Gwendolyn2018 you had me up until "However".
It's not a competition. there are other ways of being victimised other than just physical.
I have a pile of stories, as well as other men I know about some horrible shit that women do to men, just as men do to women.
My basic point was then ALL people deserve to be treated kindly, and with respect.

@Gwendolyn2018 I love the double standard you use there.
You said that "If you have been abused and taken advantage of that many times, you are the common denominator and should examine the type of women with whom you consort".As if it is my fault that I was abused.
You do realize that it is the same thing as saying that women that are abused is their own fault.

And by the way, It wasn't just by women, I had an abusive father that put me in the hospital a few times.

And you still clearly missed my point once again that ALL people should be treated with kindness and respect. men and women alike.

@CoastRiderBill I know I am!

Better to be lucky than good.
Please don't tempt fate.

@sweetcharlotte That almost never happens. Seriously. The vast majority of sexual assaults happen by someone the victim knows personally: a relative, a friend, a neighbor, a spouse, or a boyfriend/girlfriend. It is rarely a stranger (especially one pulling up in a van like in the movies).

@bigpawbullets True, that.

@sweetcharlotte it's not nearly as high as it used to be. piratefish is right, the odds of such a thing happening in real life are astronomically small. However, since it's still technically a non-zero possibility, I like to think I'd have the good sense to run, as anyone should regardless of gender.

@LiterateHiker I'm sorry that happened to someone you know, but personal experience is a poor substitute for the reams of collected data. The danger overwhelmingly comes from people the victim knows and even trusts. While strangers can and do commit these types of crimes, they are pretty rare, comparatively.

As a rule, it is better to focus mostly on the enemy responsible for nearly all attacks than to spend enormous energy worried about the one who almost never does. I know which one I am primarily concerned with.

@Piratefish

Where is your empathy? Stop minimizing women's pain and ever-present danger by trotting out statistics. One in five (likely more) girls are raped in college, including my daughter at age 19.

Nine years later, Claire still wakes up screaming. She still has panic-attacks.

Read my experience below. Of course, there's more.

@LiterateHiker Who is trivializing it? I think you seriously need to learn to relax and quit reading what you want to into another's comments. How pointing out that women are mostly victimized by people they know, and often trust, and not total strangers equates to me "minimizing women's pain and ever-present danger" is beyond me.

I am talking about WHO is committing the majority of assaults, not IF it is damaging and terrible. Try to get on the same page and quit responding to non-issues. You and I agree that rape is horrible, and that rapists and those who sexually assault women should be thrown into prison for a very long time.

Incidentally, I happen to know quite a few women who disagree with your premise that they are in ever-present danger from strangers. My mom, my sister, my ex-wife, my aunt, my nieces, my in-laws, a number of my co-workers. And before you accuse me of being uninformed or ignorant, I have actually bothered to have conversations with these women about this very thing. However, they do not report living in the same fear as you.

That doesn't mean there aren't women who have had traumatic experiences. I am in no way disputing that. It simply means that the majority of women haven't, and many who haven't are levelheaded enough not to become victims of fear from the constant media bombardment of "stranger danger". They know that the true danger will likely come from someone they know and trust, not some random guy wearing a ski mask and jumping out from the side door of a van.

Again, how this minimalizes any woman's pain who has been assaulted is a monumental leap. I just cannot seem to make the logical connection.

@Piratefish I agree. And while I'll take precautions and engage situational awareness just as everyone should regardless of gender, I will not live in fear. I lived in fear before my anxiety disorder was treated. I hated it. I won't tell other people how to live--if someone feels safer never going out and having seventeen locks on their door, I won't tell them not to, and I would prefer it if they didn't evangelise their way of life to me. Like the kids say, you do you, boo.

@memorylikeasieve I agree. But evangelizing goes both ways. Trying to make women afraid of every man they meet is not the solution. Especially when the real danger is often in their own home, next door, or with the guy they are dating.

That is horrifying! I ache for you and your daughter.

@HippieChick58

Thank you.

I'd say that's a bit of a generalization.
Does my wife trust me? Do I trust her?
How's about our daughter?

@bigpawbullets Generalization is one of the traits of the society we are living in (created and controlled by men). Not that I will trust women with my life but... You are getting me in Trouble again!!! ...just when I thought I was out.

Incorrect about your face.
Glad you've avoided harm.

You are beautiful! Watching these senate hearings is to relive many experiences for many women. I had a rapist tell me I was ugly and lucky that he wanted to have sex with me. I am angry as hell. Enough of second class treatment.

@bigpawbullets Haha, I knew that was coming--youre the first place finisher!. TY. I'm not self-conscious about my appearance in the traditional ways. I'm actually quite grateful for the hand I was dealt there. From what I gather, it's hard to be taken seriously when you're very attractive--and I have a raging intellect. I'm glad I have not, largely, been exposed to the diminishment of my faculties for the comfort and wish fulfillment of others!

@stinkeye_a
Whew.
I had to post that ma'am. I went through this with our daughter. Who is also quite smart.
I was worried i'd get a verbal lashing for telling the truth here.

@bigpawbullets Not at all! I understand 1) everyone's preferences are different, and can be vastly so--such that one person's "beautiful" can be another person's "meh", and that's just how it is; and 2) there is strong pressure in our society for people--especially women--to look attractive, which results in pressure to feel attractive, which results in pressure for bystanding well-wishers to minister to what they perceive (rightly or wrongly) to be the injured feelings of those--particularly women--who voice feelings of unattractiveness by asserting how attractive they are --whether it's true or not. Say "I'm ugly" or even "I'm not pretty" and people will fall all over themselves to contradict you...regardless of where the "truth" lies. It's just social programming. I let it lie. I found early on that if I try to let people know I'm not bound to such social programming, things get very awkward, very quickly. I've got no problem saying "I'm not pretty", because I'm not invested in that paradigm--but it freaks out other people so I learned to shut up about it. I'm not calling your motives into question, here, BTW. That was a nice thing to say, whatever your reason for saying it.

@stinkeye_a
Ha! No hidden agenda here @stinkeye_a.
Just an observation. You've a fairly classic "greek/Mediterranean" face. And I'm convinced by your writing style that you're intelligent and well educated.

@bigpawbullets Hah! 100% northern European college drop-out! Thanks for playing!

@stinkeye_a
Did I mention the hint of neanderthal (eye spacing)? Well educated, in my opinion has little to do with College/University attendance these days.
Carry on!

So, are men mostly born bad then? Or is our culture doing something to them? Both? And . . . so what can be done about it?

Thank you for your insights!!

"It's not racism that people are concerned with, it's only racism against their race". I like that statement and will use it when necessary.

THANK YOU for this!! I am hoping that someday, preferably in my lifetime, that the rest of the men of at least the US will evolve as much as you have.

@HippieChick58 Good luck and with the present leadership this is actually going backwards. Watch out for hairy chested men bearing big clubs.

@JackPedigo Yes, sadly you are correct. Which is why we need to impeach the orange POS POTUS, Despot Donnie before too much more damage is done.

That's an incorrect understanding of evolution, I think!

There's an interesting TED talk (I think; can't be arsed to look it up right now) that explodes the "alpha male" paradigm, using chimp or ape (can't remember) studies: they found that the most successful, respected male leaders were the ones who were conciliatory and empathetic--not the most aggressive, braggadocios ones. It's from the same guy who was involved in the wolf studies that gave use the term "alpha male", I think.

There is progress, but not nearly enough. When I joined the Army i n 1976 my dad had to sign my paperwork. I could not get credit in my own name without a cosigner until a few years later. My dad would NEVER have cosigned on a credit card. He didn't believe in credit.

@HippieChick58 evolution is a slow process, yes.

A rapist is not going to respect boundaries. Rape is about domination and power. Some men feel entitled to take what they want, they do not see women as autonomous beings. If boundary setting worked for you in your marriage, good. That is separate from what this article is about which is violence/rape aimed at women because we are women.

A great book on that topic is Gavin De Becker's "The Gift of Fear". In the book he speaks about survival instinct, and awareness of your situation at all times so that if something should happen, one is aware of one's options for escape, etc. I think all women, in particular, should read his book.

@Condor5 YES!!!! That book should be required reading starting in middle school. It could save soooo many lives.

This is, I'd guess, a rhetorical question:
Why the heck are young folks of both, or, I guess to be "enlightened", all genders, not taught this at home? Or, maybe in school? @Condor5 & @Qualia, where did you learn this?

@bigpawbullets If you read the book you'll see that girls are groomed from the time they are little to not appear rude, and minimize their feelings. This is dangerous.
As an example, a friend of mine prods her 3 year old grandson to kiss everyone on command as if he's known them all his life. That is dangerous. What if he doesn't feel like it? She GOADS him.
It just makes me think of the book.

No matter how street savvy you think you are, there are things in the book that will give you pause. I've been in situations myself where I didn't want to appear rude, but essentially put my life in danger as a result, but just got lucky.
Other situations felt VERY BAD to me, and I followed my gut & got the F out of there, once running out of gas & had to call a friend to help me out because I was pretty certain the way things were going I was in danger of being raped.

@Qualia
So, you learned situational awareness from a book. I find that a bit hard to believe. Did your parents not instill even a rudimentary awareness of the dangers of the world?

@bigpawbullets No need to be condescending.
Yes of course they did, but there are finer points to all of it beyond that.
There's one incident in the book where a woman is lugging groceries up stairs and a guy begs her to open the hall door, not wanting to appear rude she was nearly killed because he used it as a ruse, he happened to be black.

@bigpawbullets The Gift of Fear is about listening to your gut instincts. It's not only about women's issues, but turning into that "something doesn't feel quite right" feeling that your subconcious is trying to tell you something is wrong, even in instituational settings like a physicians office and the like.

There is a case of a woman ignoring her gut about a dr, she couldn't put her finger on it, and sure enough her kid died, but that's too brief a description.

@Qualia
I wasn't trying to be rude. But your previous post was quite a sales pitch for that book.

@bigpawbullets It's a GREAT book though, truly. I've given it as a gift a couple times and MADE my girl read it.