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What if I’m atheist not Agnostic? Just asking, to stimulate conversation.

Duckman 3 May 22
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26 comments

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The atheist/agnostic debate rages on in many circles and it’s usually pointless, but you seem to be approaching it from an open curiosity and not a “this is the hill I’m going to die on” adamancy so I’ll tell you what I think. This is what Penn Jillette as well as many other great intellectual atheists would tell you, and I like their approach very much, it makes sense.

The two terms are not mutually exclusive. They answer two different questions. Atheist answers “what do I believe?” And agnostic answers “what do I absolutely know?” I am an agnostic atheist. I take the terms very literally. A gnosis means without knowledge. Everyone on earth is agnostic if they’re honest with themselves from this basis. A theism means without theism. If you don’t practice or believe any certain form of theism, but you don’t claim to know everything there is to know absolutely, you are also an agnostic atheist by my definitions. As an atheist I don’t shy from saying there is no god, and as an agnostic I don’t shy from saying I don’t know everything. Could be simulation theory or aliens that started this ball rolling for all we know, but it wasn’t any god that’s been conceived by humanity before.

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Atheists are just agnostics who don't fear commitment.

you clearly don't understand what you speak of lmfao.

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I am an atheist and not agnostic. I used to have an agnostic streak, but then I studied the issue and discovered that all the apologetics religious people threw at me were lacking in facts, evidence, reason and logic. Therefore I put gods in the same category as fairies, hobbits and superheroes. They are mythical, not real. I'm now convinced of that.

Hobbits are real. Haven’t you seen the lord of the rings documentary? 😉

3

I still like using the saying that I am a philosophical agnostic yet practical atheist.

That's a really good way of describing it. I've taken to call myself and ignostic to remove myself from the tug of war between the two.

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In my opinion, if you declare yourself to be an atheist, you are required to substantiate your belief with evidence that there is no god. That is an impossible task since there is no way to prove that something does not exist. I prefer to describe myself as being agnostic and leave it up to the theist to prove their case.

Why should you have to prove god doesn’t exist? They can’t prove he does.

@Shouldbefishing On one hand there was the need to identify with a term that was apparently used by many in this forum to mean something not quite accurate. On the other hand there is an opportunity now to differentiate. It's impossible to justify atheism because there is no way to prove something does not exist.

@Hathacat No one can force you to explain a thing. However if you want people to accept that there is no god based entirely on faith alone, are you not then part of a faith based religion of atheism? Hypothesis and theories and correlations are not enough to establish something as being true. If your belief is not backed up with evidence, it's just faith-based and therefore no different than all the other religions.

@vinceway I have no faith, so why would I use that? "Proving it" based on faith is ludcrous.

@Shouldbefishing It appears that we are forced to use one of two labels, Agnostic or Atheist. I would like to have a new and clever label that is more specific to what concerns me. I don't want to have to prove that a god does not exist and therefore being called an atheist doesn't really suit me. Being an agnostic implies that I am on the fence about their being a god and doesn't really get into the underlying distain I feel about religion. I want a label that identifies me as a person who hates religion. I don't care if a person wants to live inside their delusions. It's their obsessive urge to get everyone else to join them in their fantasy that upsets me. A belief in a god should be a personal choice and left at that. Why do they need others to inhabit their made up fake reality?

@Shouldbefishing, @motrubl4u How would a person even go about proving that a thing does not exist? Even if every atom, subatomic particle, energy field were examined, those who believe in the existence of a god will establish another standard of proof. There is no way to win that argument.

@Shouldbefishing You proved my point. A simple and straight forward conversation concerning a belief in the existence of god is now devolved into a 'Bill Barr' interpretation of the meaning of each and every word. You know as well as anyone that when I said that a person is forced into choosing one label over another it did not mean that actual force is being used. I was referring to how each of the two terms, Agnostic and Atheistic is generally understood by the general public. Also, being skeptical is not in question nor any other word in your list of other things I can,with your permission call myself.

A person who believes in god or gods is considered a theist. So, therefore a person who is atheist or anti-theist is a person who does not believe in the person who believes in a god or gods. Doesn't make sense. Does it?

A person who admits they don't know if there is a god or gods is generally considered agnostic. I don't give a rat's behind if the rest of the world knows that I don't know. So, pinning the term Agnostic on my name tag gets me nowhere.

It is not my life's goal to change or enhance the meaning of the two generally used terms, agnostic or atheist.

Also, explaining this to anyone, ad nauseum is not on my bucket list. I'm old and don't have time to suffer fools. I am already past my expiration and use by dates.

Thanks for the list of terms none of which describe the thing I laboriously typed in my last comment. I would like to see a label that is easily and universally understood to mean, "All religions are bad".

By the way, what in the world does,within the scope of the constitution, have to do with it? The constitution doesn't limit a person's brain. The constitutions tries to prevent intrusion of religion. The key word here is 'Religion'.

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At this point, there should be some universal FAQ.

  1. Agnostic atheist - Does not know, but does not believe in a god.
  2. Gnostic atheist - Knows that there is no god.
  3. Agnostic theist - Does not know, but does believe in a god.
  4. Gnostic theist - Knows that there is a god.
palex Level 6 May 23, 2019

Realize that "knowing" implies proof Otherwise, that "knowledge" is based on faith.

@PBuck0145 You can know something without proof and it’s not faith. Like, I know what I’m thinking, but I can’t prove it.

@indirect76 Can you "know" what you are NOT thinking? Don't think of a pink elephant.
Can you "know" the God does NOT exist?

These are the definitions utilized in the context of contemporary discourse, which differ from the more traditional definitions. Knowledge, in this case, refers to knowledge claims. This topic has been beaten to death in virtually every forum I have witnessed.

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what if? nothing. be whatever you are. the address atheist dot com was taken when this site was created. if you actually read the about and all that, you will see for whom this site was created, and that includes both atheists and agnostics.

g

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No one really cares! Make an interesting and erudite post, then people will care!

Oh no. Now I have to look up erudite.

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I am an atheist. I believe that there is no more evidence for god than there is evidence for the easter bunny. I have no doubt that either the easter bunny or god does not exist.

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Hey, I've been an Atheist since childhood and I'm a member here ( well at least until some quasi-religious snowflake gets his/her panties in a knot and forces the Admin to kick me out that is) so Welcome Aboard matey, enjoy the company, the friendships and the discussions with the rest of us.

Get a little excited do u? 🙂

@Duckman No, not really, more like a wee bit of 'passionate' in my comments when it comes to comments, etc, made by the Faithfools who repeatedly demonstrate their ignorance, etc, when preaching to or at me.

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Who cares, either way?

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Then you are an A-theist.

1

What is an atheist?

0

I believe an agnostic is an atheist FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES. It is said that you can't be an atheist because you can't prove that God doesn't exist. This might be true in terms of purely philosophical logic, but in my view, this is a straw man argument.

I can't prove that God doesn't exist, but you can't prove that I don't have an invisible dragon in my garage. (I borrowed this analogy from Michael Shermer or Richard Dawkins or one of my other heroes from something I read or viewed a while ago.) For any arguments you offer to test whether she is real, I can make up attributes to knock them down. Such as: my dragon does not breathe fire, so a heat sensor does not help.

One reason this analogy works so well is that Christian apologists must invent some outrageous attributes in order to maintain their belief. If that fails, they fall back on a lack of evidence as the evidence (“God works in mysterious ways.&rdquo😉

Another analogy I have heard: I can't prove that there is no God just as you can't prove that there are not magic tea cups circling Neptune. Evidence is not available.

Many people define atheism as not believing in God. Wikipedia: Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities. The key word here is belief. Agnostics can’t prove a negative, but they find insufficient evidence (in fact contradictory evidence) for the belief in God.

I have read that there are about 4100 religions worldwide. Given this, does it make more sense that God created man, or that men created gods?

So, let’s not get too serious about purely philosophical logic. Remember the conundrum proposed by Homer Simpson: Can God heat a burrito so hot that he can’t eat it?

No, you're wrong: I KNOW FOR A FACT you don't have a dragon in your garage. But you don't KNOW god--by some definition anyway--doesn't exist. This is the kind of inductive reasoning, using false equivalency, people employ all the time to build premises.designed to bolster preconceptions, upon which they "prove"...nothing.
I'm not an atheist, because I don't believe IN anything, including the nonexistence of god. You insist on using loaded words like "Christian" and "dieties," so as to narrow your definition to your "straw men" and then shoot them down.
But our understanding of the physical world is so limited we barely comprehend anything at all, a miniscule fraction of what's there. If there is something we could refer to as "god," we have not the slightest idea what that might be. So for you to stand there and smugly say you know for a FACT there is no such thing is laughable.
There is a huge difference between agnostics and atheists. I wish you and others would get that through your heads.

@Storm1752 Isn’t it easy to refute arguments when you completely misrepresent those arguments? I started my second paragraph with this phrase: “I can't prove that God doesn't exist, but…” And yet part of your reply was this:
“If there is something we could refer to as "god," we have not the slightest idea what that might be. So for you to stand there and smugly say you know for a FACT there is no such thing is laughable.”
What is laughable is that you completely misrepresented my post. Did you read all of it?

Despite your comment “our understanding of the physical world is so limited we barely comprehend anything at all,” you claim to KNOW what does and what does not exist in my garage. Apparently others cannot prove a negative, but you allow yourself that ability. Where is your proof?

What is also laughable is your logic, not to mention your condescending attitude. The tone of your reply implies that you know everything you know for sure, and us others are in the dark, as when you state “I wish you and others would get that through your heads.”

Get over yourself.

0

Just remember that a religious person, from 1 to 10, can believe 10...
but an atheist think that god doesn't exist till 9 😉

(Richard Dawkins, God Delusion)

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I was told by someone they say they believe just in case it is true that is just playing two sides ofacoin

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it just means the truth set you free

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An atheist claims to "know" that there is no god. This implies that there is proof of the non-existence of a deity. I would like to see that proof.
Otherwise, "knowing" that there is no god is based on faith. Just another religion?

proof of no god no one can see it no one has proven it exsists no can find it even they have tried forthousands of years

@benhmiller That is opinion, not proof.

0

I do not believe in gods of any kind, all man made, I don't like labels either.

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You can be agnostic about your atheism or atheistic about your agnosticism. I might not believe and then I might. I might not believe at all but I could believe under certain circumstances. Maybe I just believe some things that I am not telling you. Then we have started our own denominations. 🙂

0

Well I think agnostics are atheists who are really atheist about all the Gods except their culture God about which they choose to be agnostic. So, they're 99.999% atheist, really. Not such a big difference, when you get down to it.

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I don't believe in god. I consider myself an atheist.

JimG Level 8 May 22, 2019

I say I can't believe in gods

@benhmiller I understand.

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I consider myself a free thinker, woke, open minded to new possibilities. I do not believe in a magic man in the sky. I'm not sure where I fall but those are my views.

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the scientific method begins with the null hypothesis.
the world exist therefore must have been created by a god named Jehovah.
who chose to create the world give the people some general guidance and then disappear.
he then sits in hiding waiting to judge the people of the world. and if they fail to live up to his expectations he will then torture them forever.
fill your heart with the love of Yahweh and you will believe.
this is enough information for you to make your own decision

Oh ha ha ha ha. Your funny

0

Who does it matter too, outside of yourself?

Yup

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