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At the risk of sounding unpatriotic,...
I hate 9/11. All these people saying 'Never forget'.

What are we never to forget? Some people say, 'We should never forget who attacked us?'. Sadly, it seems we already forgot that - it was the Saudis. It was a small group of Fundimentalist Muslims.

What we should never forget is the sacrifices by the first responders.

Maybe we should never forget that it was all about the oil/money.

Maybe we should always remember it was all about religion.

What do you think we should always remember about 9/11?

johnnybaby55 6 Sep 11
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10

Never forget the attack was totally preventable, never forget that Condoleezza Rice was briefed more than 2 months in advance by the head of the CIA that an attack by Al Qaeda was imminent and NOTHING was done about it, never forget the incompetence of the Dubya administration on killing Bin Laden, never forget the lies and stupidity that brought us 2 interminable wars, never forget that Trump has lied even more trying to place himself helping the first responders and the lies about muslims celebrating, finally, never forget the victims and the first responders who were and are still being treated as second class citizens by Moscow Mitch and fucking Rand Paul.

Yes, this is exactly what I always remember. It's why thie date always is a day of sadness and rage for me.

Barbara Ehrenreich refers to the CIA brief on the forthcoming attack as an example of excessive positive thinking in her book titled Smile or Die. The actual title is longer though.

There's a great Frontline documentary called "The Man Who Knew." It's about an FBI agent who became an expert on bin Laden and al-Qaeda and tried to get the higher-ups to understand how serious a threat they posed. But because he wouldn't play the standard political games (and particularly he wouldn't kiss Louis Freeh's a$$) they ignored and marginalized him, to the point that his superiors deliberately withheld intelligence from him. Finally he left the FBI and took a job as the director of security at the WTC, and died trying to help people evacuate from one of the towers. What's particularly chilling was on September 10, 2001, he had dinner with a friend who told him, "Well at least you know they won't attack the Trade Center again, because they tried once and failed." His response was, "No, they ARE going to hit the Trade Center again. They failed once and now they're even more determined to bring the towers down." It's infuriating. I have it on DVD but I've never been able to bring myself to watch it again. Yes, hindsight is always 20/20, but this man could tell al-Qaeda was getting ready for a major attack and no one would listen to him.

@GilbertFreon it became a series in Hulu called the Looming Tower

9

Back in the days of World War II, they use to have a saying . . . . "The only thing to fear is fear itself." Most people today do not get the meaning of that phrase. It means that fear, as an emotion, is bad, because it destroys the ability to think logically and reasonably . . . . My observation has been that Americans for the most part have turned into whining, paranoid, illogical fools who fear their own shadows, easily manipulated by the Washington imperialist war-for-profit-loving criminals as a result. They control the media, so they control the masses, they have more than filled the Nazis boots by destroying other countries. We live in a society that is so sick and weak-minded that criminals are easily elected to high office and people who oppose them are locked up. It is disgusting, adversity should make one stronger, not weaker.

I believe only about 1/3 of the population of Americans easily fit your description the rest are in opposition, biding time till 2020, going door to door, doing things to help a Democrat be elected to replace the POS. Trump is guilty of TRYING to control the media, free speech, destruction of our infrastructure which BTW doesn't work if there's a dictator in place. That which is broken MUST be fixed before this occurs again.

I do not think that the real power lies with the presidency. Main reason for that thinking is two-fold. Generally, prior to presidents entering office, usually during their campaign, you will hear them speaking anti-war rhetoric, then, after coming to office, they end up doing the opposite, and it does not make any difference if they are democrat or republican, the outcome is ALWAYS more war for profit.
.
Secondly . . . . follow the money . . . where does it lead? To the Pentagon.
.
One might also listen to Voltaire . . .

"To learn who rules over you, find out who you are not allowed to criticize."

Now think Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden and Julian Assange . . . .

8

I couldn't agree more. I'd add to the never forget list:

Our Constitutional rights were completely hacked;
The Police State was fostered and raised into the nightmare of today;
Endless illegal wars costing trillions;
And blah blah blah
Mostly? I HATE FLYING NOW, and I love to fly. Fuck TSA.

8

8/6 Hiroshima
8/9 Nagasaki

If we remember those dates, I have no problem remembering 9/11

7

What we should remember about 9/11 is that Tower 7 was not hit by a plane. Nor was the Pentagon.

We should remember that 9/11 was used as an excuse to lie us into two wars against people who had nothing to do with 9/11.

The real perpetrators of 9/11 have not been brought to justice.

Yes! That the Obama administration never prosecuted Bush and Cheney will forever be a stain on his Presidency for me. Had they been brought to justice the orange anus squatting in the White House would not be there.

Wait one fucking second. YES, the Pentagon WAS hit by an airplane. American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757, was crashed into the west side of the Pentagon at 9:37 a.m. EST.

You do a disservice to the memories and the families of the 53 passengers and the 6 crew to suggest otherwise. Witnesses saw the craft actually hit the building.

[popularmechanics.com]

No, Tower 7 was not hit by a plane. Burning debris from the twin towers struck the building and started numerous fires, which the firefighting system couldn't handle. First responders were already overwhelmed by the disasters of that day and having evacuated the building, realized they couldn't save it and the team was pulled out. There was no way to stop the building's collapse.

[popularmechanics.com]

The 9/11 attack was an Al Qaeda operation from start to finish. And since that day, the planners of the attack have indeed been brought to justice for the most part, one way or another.

One of the things I can't forget about 9/11 is learning, in the aftermath, how self-deluding human beings are. The facts stare them straight in the face, yet they insist that there's a "hidden truth". There's no hidden truth. I saw the second plane hit the Tower. I saw the Towers fall live. I will never and can never forget what I saw. And I'll never stop telling the truth that you conspiracy theorists are full of shit.

@Paul4747 if you ever find a photograph or footage of that plane in Washington that day, flying into or approaching the capital of the US, right at the centre of the US military, the Pentagon, I would very much like to see it. One photo. One frame from a security camera. Anything. Sincerely, I would. The supposed footage of the explosion looks nothing like a plane strike. Not one piece of airline wreckage evident. Even in catastrophic plane crashes there remains a wing, an engine, a tail. Nothing. I don't blame people for their suspicion. Surely some indisputable evidence that it was a plane is not too much to ask. @mcgeo52

@David1955 @mcgeo52 @paul4747
[911facts.dk]
[snopes.com]

There is all kinds of evidence that a plane hit the pentagon, and the government is much to inefficient to pull off some grand hoax such as what is suggested, and it doesn't make sense that they would anyways.

It would be like cutting your arm off to get insurance money. We still haven't recovered economically from the loss of the world trade centers, literally no part of the conspiracy makes any sense.

Just because we don't have clear video footage of a plane hitting the pentagon doesn't automatically mean it wasn't a plane, it just means we don't have clear footage of it happening. What we do have is tons of eye witness from first responders, several pictures of the damage including fallen light posts and torn up ground ( a missile wouldn't do that ) and the bodies of those who were on the plane.

Besides, the claim that something other than flight 77 hit the pentagon is shifting the burden of proof. Conspiracy theorists always denounce credible evidence whenever they can. Where is the evidence it was something else?

Do you think we landed on the moon? Just wondering how far your conspicuous theory mind goes

@David1955 There's a very clear photo in the linked article. I'm certain a web search would turn up more, even though most photos were official evidence and not widely released. And there's absolutely NO reason to doubt this account:
' Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"'

@Paul4747, to quote the article you posted re the Pentagon:
"Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass. "If you expected the entire wing to cut into the building," Sozen tells PM, "it didn't happen.""

So, one wing hit the ground??? The pictures of the lawn in front of the hole prove this theory is complete bullshit.

Each of the wings either:
a) went into the building, or
b) were knocked off the fuselage and stayed outside the building, or
c) didn't exist.

Those are the only three choices other than "they evaporated", which didn't happen.

We can rule out "a" since neither wing was found on the lawn. We can also rule out "b" since neither wing was found in the building.

To put things in perspective , each wing had an engine attached to it that was larger than an ambulance and smaller than a fire truck. I use those two particular objects a references because they were clearly visible in pictures of the Pentagon lawn. Those engines had parts, made from alloys that would not simply evaporate, as large as that ambulance. Where are they???

@Paul4747, if you want accounts that I have no reason to doubt, watch this video:

I dare you to watch the first ten minutes of it.

@Paul4747, @Happy_Killbot, where is all of the evidence you claim exists? There is not a single video from over a dozen cameras that should have captured it. Where were the engines that were on the 757? Each of those was larger than the ambulance on the Pentagon lawn. Those things don't just evaporate.

BTW, it wasn't the entire government. It was a small group of highly placed people who stood to profit from "a Pearl Harbor for our generation."

@Marcie1974, I have talked with astronauts and have no reason to believe that we did not land on the moon. That did not require any violations of the laws of physics.

On the other hand, the magic bullet theory required to explain the Warren Commission's version of JFK's assassination is completely absurd. I was not at all surprised when a Congressional inquiry concluded that the Warren Commission reported was not what happened.

Believing that a tower designed to take the impact of a 747 was taken down by a 757 would be a major stretch. To believe that three towers, each designed to take the direct impact of a 747, could be taken down by two 757s is too much.

I remember watching the two towers collapse and my initial reaction was, "This looks too much like controlled demolition." Then I watched the way Tower 7 came down and it was undoubtedly a classic demo job.

Other than 9/11 there is no case ever of any steel framed skyscraper collapsing due to fire. Nor were there any cases of airplanes evaporating when they hit a building.

To answer your question, I examine the evidence and decide whether or not to believe the official story. Believe it or not, the people in charge will lie if it benefits them.

@Paul4747 to use the quote you posted:
' Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"'

  1. "I held in my hand the tail section of the plane." No. The tail section of the plane is bigger than him. No way he held it in his hand.

  2. "I found the black box." No again. He was "he first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash." At around 3:40 a.m. on September 14, a paramedic and a firefighter who were searching through the debris of the impact site found two dark boxes, about 1.5 feet (46 cm) by 2 feet (61 cm) long. They called for an FBI agent, who in turn called for someone from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). The NTSB employee confirmed that these were the flight recorders ("black boxes" ) from American Airlines Flight 77.

Sorry, but I'm not buying the load of fertilizer you are selling.

@mcgeo52 You are shifting the burden of proof. In America you are inocent until proven guilty, we don't have to provide any evidence that a provide any evidence that it wasn't a plane.

Where is your evidence?

@mcgeo52 why don't you believe this? Is it because you are unwilling to accept truth or because it doesn't fit with your proposed narative, so you just deny it?

Conspiracy theorists are interesting people, unwilling to accept reality so they create a shell of lies to protect themselves. Reality just wants to be loved, but you want to think it's something it's not.

@mcgeo52 If I found a 1-foot piece from a landing gear 12 feet long, and picked it up, I would very likely say "I'm holding the landing gear". You're quibbling over the wording of an emotional response from a man accused of being part of a government cover-up.

Anyone who knows anything about the flight data recorder knows that they are in fact bright orange, so they can be found after a crash. Whatever source you're quoting is fertilizer, and probably artificial fertilizer. I can provide sources for my quotes. Why don't you?

@Happy_Killbot, you made a claim with no proof. Asking you to prove your initial claim is NOT shifting the burden of proof. Prove your claim.

@mcgeo52 I did prove my claim, what are you talking about?

@Happy_Killbot, I believe what the facts prove. Why don’t you? Is the truth too uncomfortable for you?

@mcgeo52 Is cognitive dissonance your default state?

@Paul4747, the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder were recovered on Friday, September 14.
[usatoday30.usatoday.com]

@Happy_Killbot, if you proved your claim I must have missed it. Where is the picture of the remains of the plane that hit the Pentagon.

@mcgeo52 paul4747s first link has a picture of a piece of debris. The other pieces are under the rubble from the pentagon collapsing.

@Happy_Killbot, if you brought that picture of one tiny piece of debris into court as proof, you would be lucky if the judge only laughed at you instead of finding you in contempt. Were is the proof?

@mcgeo52 you're shifting the burden of proof again.

The question is if that picture was brought into court would the claim that a plane didn't hit the pentagon hold up?

Inocent until proven guilty!

@mcgeo52 This source says nothing like what you posted about "dark gray boxes" being found.

So, you're challenging one account of the flight recorder being found with a different account of the flight recorder being found, to say that no flight recorder was found, because it wasn't a plane?

The wing and engines didn't sit intact out on the lawn, they hit at hundreds of miles per hour and shattered into their component parts.

As for your earlier replies (which I hadn't noticed until now), you postulate a conspiracy between Al Qaeda to hijack at least 3 airliners (2 that hit the Towers and 1 that was crashed into the field outside Shanksville PA), and the US Government to demolish the Towers with explosives that were somehow smuggled in and placed, without anyone noticing, and set up on the exact floors that the planes were then crashed into so it wouldn't look suspicious when the Towers started collapsing from a different level than the ones the planes hit? So the hijackers were expert enough to hit an exact floor of the WTC, give or take 10, and pick a different level on each tower?

The towers actually did survive being hit by the 757s. The crashes did not take them down. The fires that burned for almost an hour weakened the structural components, already damaged by the collision, finally causing the collapse. Had first reponders been able to concentrate on a single tower, who knows? They may have been able to save the building. But it was never anticipated that two airliners would be deliberately crashed by terrorists into both towers at once. We did not fathom the evil that our enemies were capable of. And I use that word deliberately.

I personally cannot fathom those who insist that "the truth" is other than the truth, and insist that the REAL enemies are in here with us; and no matter how much evidence is brought out, it's just wrong, because it doesn't go along with the idea of the REAL truth.

@Happy_Killbot, I am not shifting the burden of proof. You have yet to provide a single convincing piece of evidence to back your initial assertion. You are the one who claimed that hijackers did it. They are, as you point out, innocent until proven guilty. So far, the jury is voting to acquit.

@mcgeo52 We are past that point, we fought several wars over them hijacking planes, that trial is over. What we are talking about is if something else hit the pentagon, for which there is no evidence to support. We dragged their bodies out of the wreckage, we found the black box, we have photo evidence of the scene. How is any of that even possible if they didn't do it?

You are making an assertion that a plane didn't hit the pentagon, and it was something else. That claim has no evidence, you might as well as insist it was Santa Claus.

The perpetrators are not on trial here, its a few supposed top officials working behind the scenes, conspirators if you will, who are on trial. Therefore you need to provide evidence that they did it, and quite frankly you don't even have proof that any such people exist!

@Paul4747, I never said that the planes had to hit an exact floor on either tower. I am saying that all three towers were rigged for demolition. Yes, it was an inside job that required the cooperation of the owner of the towers, and the company responsible for the security of the towers.

Why would Larry Silverstein want his towers demolished?

  1. They were in need of renovation but, because of all of the asbestos used in their construction, that would have been cost prohibitive.
  2. They were fully insured, so he would get the money when they came down. They were actually doubly insured against a terrorist attack, and he was paid double.

Why would the security company cooperate?

  1. Silverstein told them to.
  2. The owners of the company were in on the deal for their own reasons. Securacom, as the company was then known, was backed by the Kuwait-American Corp. The managing director at KuwAm, Wirt D. Walker III, was also a principal at Securacom, and Walker and Marvin Bush and are listed in SEC filings as significant shareholders in both companies during that period. In case you don't recognize those two names, Marvin Bush is W's younger brother and Wirt (his nickname for Herbert) Walker was his cousin. Through their holdings in defense contractors, the Bush/Walker family profited immensely from the two wars we were lied into based on 9/11.

Call me a cynic, but when the money trail lines up that well with the physical evidence, I know what I am going to believe.

Speaking of the money trail, there was also the matter of the $2.3 trillion dollars that Donald Rumsfeld announced on September 10, 2001 was unaccounted for in the Pentagon budget. The team in the Pentagon assigned to investigate the "shortfall" was in the office that took the direct hit on 9/11. Not to worry; there were offsite backup copies of everything. Care to guess where? You win the grand prize if said Tower 7.

In short, there was more than enough motive and opportunity for an inside job.

@Happy_Killbot, we are not past that point. That case was never proven in court. The fact we were lied into those wars is a matter of record. The "attack" was part of the lies until you prove otherwise.

As for who did it, read my response to @Paul4747.

@mcgeo52 Actually, there were several trials.
[en.wikipedia.org]
[independent.co.uk]
[huffpost.com]
[nytimes.com]

The 5 individuals who haven't had trial are in legal limbo because of the use of enhanced interrogation used to coerce evidence from them.
[nytimes.com]

Also I found this picture.

@mcgeo52 Watch this video, it should clear some things up.

@Happy_Killbot, where in any of what you posted does it prove that terrorists were responsible for 9/11? Hint: Nowhere.

The only thing that comes close is the statement by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed confessing to 9/11, organizing the 1993 World Trade Center bombing; the Bali nightclub bombings; and Richard Reid's attempted shoe bombing. Talk about a self-aggrandizing twat. He ranks right up there with Trump on both that and creditability.

P.S. Cute picture. Did you get it for free with six packets of Kool-Aid mix?

@Happy_Killbot, cute video. Not proof of anything.

@Happy_Killbot, unlike you I have a life. If you actually find real proof, please let me know. Until then feel free to keep drinking the Kool-Aid, but this conversation is over.

@mcgeo52 The actual real proof has been there for 18 years. The same people who attacked the USS Cole, who made coordinated attacks on our embassies worlwide, who had plotted to hijack a dozen airliners and blow them up over the Pacific (luckiliy that failed), were the conspirators in the 9/11 attacks.

I doubt you've considered the cockpit voice recordings, the phone calls from passangers on the hijacked planes, the mass confusion of the government's response, all pointing to the complete shock of this event which nobody saw coming on that day- except for a very few antiterrorism experts, who had been warning about something like it for years.

To claim that this was a conspiracy also posits that it was an alliance between the US Government and Al Qaeda. You have to show a single scrap of evidence for that. Also, explain how not a single tenant of the building (thousands escaped) ever reported seeing the demolition materials being moved in. How no camera footage survived showing it being placed. How a government that can't cover up a President getting oral sex from an intern and is utterly incompetent at almost anything it does, according to its critics, is also so amazingly competent at this conspiracy. And how not one of the hundreds of people who would have to be involved has not come forward by now to reveal their role. It would make them millions in talk show fees and book deals, and yet they remain silent. That goes against human nature- just like the so-called JFK conspiracy. (By the way- that was Oswald acting alone.)

Go drink your kool-aid, maybe get a dog, read the 9/11 commission report, and come to terms with reality. Massive conspiracies don't exist for long without being revealed. The best clue that this wasn't one? You still have no evidence, just sinister allegations.

Yep, this conversation is over.

@Paul4747, are you aware that those phone calls were impossible give the technology available to the passengers?

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

6

We shouldn't forget the lives lost, the sacrifice of those who arrived at the scene, and the political fall out in the aftermath.

We should never forget that airports didn't used to suck this bad, and government survailance wasn't the norm.

We should never forget our mortality, how fragile our society is, or that our assumption of American exceptionalism is fundamentaly wrong.

We should never forget because their is too much to learn from our failure and about the role we play as a single part of a global humanity, a reality we need to except at face value. Anyone who pushes a narrative of fear and hate, insisting we continue to place blame and eradicate diversity for the sake of unity, has an agenda of isolation and self proclaimed superiority. We are already over the tipping point, and I don't think we have forgotten that.

6

I remember the day
I remember the dead ... who died through no fault of their own
I remember those who fought hard to save lives ... some at the cost of their own
I remember it was done for religion, and in retaliation, and derived from middle east oil
mostly ... I remember the waste of lives in futile half hearted wars fought since that day

6

I think we must remember the 9/11 when the biggest empire that the world knew at time suffered a defeat so huge, to a loosely knitted alliance of barbarians and traitors, that 2 of the pillars of power destroyed on that day were never re-raised again. This event defined new borders on the world!

Of course I am talking about the lost of 3 legions (2 of them never re-raised anymore) at the Teutoburg Forest on 9/11 of 9 dc, where german tribes on a 3 days struggle (ending probably on 9/11) swallowed the Roman army and established the Rhine as the fronter of the roman empire in central Europe.

Interesting. Another interesting 9/11 story is how we (CIA) killed Alliende in 1973

[en.wikipedia.org]

And don't forget the 9th legion who made the mistake of crossing Hadrian's wall and were never heard of again.

@Moravian those dem pixies

5

What should we remember? Thats Easy:
911 proved that we don't have a Defense Industry. We have an Offense Industry

twill Level 7 Sep 12, 2019

And which president during the 90's cut defense spending?

5

2977, 2403, 23049, 4414, 90000, and 39000. Anyone remember those numbers? 9/11, Perl Harbor, Gettysburg, D-day, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki. Until man gets rid of his tribalism and quits listening to those that promote it, death from it will exist.

5

The big lie I am hearing today is about this foolish nonsense about Trump considering meeting with the Taliban just before the 9/11 remembrance, is the falsehood that the Taliban attacked the US on that day. Lets not forget.... the media cry. Utterly nonsense. The Taliban were and are total religious bastards, but they were not responsible for these attacks. Yes, they allowed Bin Ladin to stay there, but he might have been somewhere else, and the attackers were Saudi and Yemeni. My understanding is that Bin Laden told Mullah Omah just after the attacks and Omah's response was like 'Are you crazy? You're going to bring the Americans down on our heads!' which is exactly what happened. It was the last thing the Taliban wanted. But it was exactly what Bin Laden wanted, and the US blundered in, thoughtlessly. But in the Fake History that the Right now peddles, that war in Afghanistan is equated with preventing another 9/11 attack. And the irony is, if there were another attack, it wouldn't be from the Taliban, who are fighting a nationalist war against what they see as invaders, but from other middle eastern countries that hate the West. What point is mainstream media when all they do is peddle Establishment spin.

Exactly!

The Taliban regime were warned, during the Clinton administration, that their harboring of Al Qaeda had to come to an end or they would face consequences. Their reaction was something along the lines of "Consequences, shmonsequences, they're paying us good money to rent the place." Bin Laden and Al Qaeda (literal translation- The Base, as in Base of the new Islamic movement) saw Afghanistan as the foundation of the new world order. Their version of Islam would spread out from there and take over the world. The Taliban had no problem with this and were philisophically allies in the movement.

TL;DR- they asked for it.

@Paul4747 and yet much of the attack was planned in Europe, like in Hamburg, since this kind of terrorist group is an idea and fluid and international. The US is fighting 21st century wars with 20th century thinking. Bad idea. They're fighting Nazis in Afghanistan and Iraq, only they are not Nazis and it's not the second world war. I repeat, if the US is hit again, and may that not happen, it won't be planned in Afghanistan. The biggest military in the world doesn't make up for archaic military strategic thinking. I'm just deeply sorry for the military personnel who have to be at the receiving end of the US Ruling Class's folly.

5

To understand what happened on 9/11, you have to remember how things were like on 9/10.

4

I'll give you several reasons to never forget

341 firefighters
10 EMT Paramedics (2 were FDNY, but were NOT firefighters)
37 PAPD officers
23 NYPD officers

Also the thousands of civilians who perished...

Those are 411 specific reasons to never forget. It is the largest line of duty loss of life in this country's history. Equating 9/11 to the geopolitical turmoil that has happened is the biggest disrespect to those who lost their lives on that day. Please stop making a national day of remembrance into a reason to spew political rhetoric.

Our unbelievable and constant meddling in the Middle East created 9/11. It doesn't justify what they did in my eyes, but my eyes don't count. We are very childish when it comes to accepting responsibility for for the problems we create when the stupid shit we do backfires on us.

4

Everything is "forgotten." It stays in the history logs. There will still be monuments. But as new generations, who have no memory of an event, it will be less relevant That is not unpatriotic. Just how things work. History is full of terrible events that we no longer have memorials for.

Fake "history" and the billionaires remain free for murdering many of the victims

4

Never forget who created the attackers " Al Qaeda"

[en.wikipedia.org]

NR92 Level 6 Sep 12, 2019
4

You're not from New York

You know really horrible things happen in a lot of places. Just look what is happening in Gaza with your money for instance.

No I'm not . I'm guessing you are, so what do you want us to remember?

@Jolanta You are not from NY or Gaza. We think about people. Thats what we remember. A memorial is generally not a political discussion..its a fucking memorial. So you can honor that people love each other and grieve and comfort each other or you can join westboro baptist church I guess

@thinkwithme Have a lovely day, but for your information just in case you didn’t notice you are not from Gaza or New York either. Wanker.

I am from NYC. I hate the whole never forget because we have already forgotten. We have forgotten about the first responders who need help, we forgot it was the Saudis who did this and the Bush family who evacuated them on 9/12. We forgot that not no one had ever won a war or invasion of Afghanistan. We, as a collective whole in this country forget a lot.

@GreatNani At the rate thiongs are happening in this country, "never forget" will become a common phrase..

@Jolanta I think I know where Im from and that you do not know. I have to admit it upset me to see the wording to suggest its my money as though I personally fund the Gaza attacks. Blaming all Americans seems part of the ideology that allowed it to happen. Its very sad and I just ask respect for families friends neighbors for their loved ones and to help them

@IAJO163 yes, that is the truth!

@LimitedLight Seems like when I drive 3 hours west of the city, I'm in Pennsylvania ..

@GreatNani On the family that was evacuated, I remember when this article was published and this line stuck out to me.. "I understand now that when you are innocent, in the face of emotion, nothing, not even common sense, can help argue your case." [cbsnews.com] If he was estranged from his family, what would have allowed them to keep those people here? I think the arguement that they feared for their lives is pretty feasible. You can look at the list of hate crimes recorded by Southern Poverty Law that year ..[splcenter.org] They need to fund the first responders. I'm not sure where you're going with never winning a war with Afghanistan, unless you mean maybe blowing more people up isn't the answer. That's a good idea to consider

@thinkwithme my point was we evacuated the saudis because we knew they were responsible for the attack and then shifted our attention to a war with the wrong people. A war in a country that has never been conquered. Because saudia Arabia means money. And no one cares about the suffering people in Afghanistan. And of course no one learns from history. Afghanistan is unwinnable.

@GreatNani I didn't do that. I'm not sure you really want to use the word we. Are you stating that George Bush had confessions, witnesses, recordings, emails, videos, something to show the individuals who returned to Saudi Arabia were directly complicit, either in orchestrating or knowingly funding the attacks, and W sent them back anyway? How do you know? Unless, you think we should have rounded up all the Saudis and put them in internment camps..Bin Ladin had 49 siblings. Some people have one sibling and they don't what she's doing. I remember the going to war with Iraq over WMD that no one found. I remember thinking did W lie about it or did someone else lie to him about it or make a mistake in thinking they were there or were there WMD that disappeared somehow to where no one could find them. There's a lot of shit that we haven't forgotten, but that we really don't know. Judges very often have a difficult time when they do their job and a lot of times its impossible.

@thinkwithme I am using we in the collective sense. And no I am not advocating that we should have rounded up all saudis and put them in camps. Not sure where you think I said that. I believe I was quite clear that we have a vested interest in propping up Saudi Arabia at the expense of our own people and also deflecting the American publics attention for the Saudis and directing it to people who had nothing to do with 9/11.

@LimitedLight it is always about money. Truly. Follow the money and you can see everything.

3

Don't get sucked in by politics of hate and fear

bobwjr Level 10 Sep 14, 2019
3

it wasn't about religion at all. the self-proclaimed muslims who planned and executed 9/11 do not/did not follow islam. they are no more muslims than the westboro idiots are christians (not that one would want to be a christian, but let's get our labels right, right?)

what to remember is that some people's loved ones died, that first responders risked and in some cases lost their lives, and that there is a good possibility that crucial parts of our government knew it was coming and either ignored the information because it was stupid or allowed it to happen for political reasons. that's what to remember.

g

@Imatheistically well the suiciders were not atheists but the planners may or may not have been. for them it was political. i know some muslims who are not terrorists. in fact none of the muslims i know are terrorists. i am encountering some pretty virulent bigots here and there, though. genocidally exterminated? so what makes you, an atheist like me, so great if you can say a thing like that? feh. not even worth arguing with someone who says that. i am not typing this for your benefit but for the benefit of others who may be reading this and not happen to favor genocide.

g

p.s. what makes you better than isul or al kaeda if you too are willing to indulge in genocide?

oh look, he deleted his response, which is fine except that now it looks as if what i said was purely judgmental. this is to what i was responding:

"Imatheistically 6 replied Sep 12, 2019 0
They sure as hell were not atheists! When they screamed, "Allah Akbar" as they crashed each plane, what religion was that a declaration of? Christianity? Islam is a god-damned death cukt whose terrorist adherents neef to be genocidally exterminated off this planet!"

so you see, i am not the one who brought up genocide.

g

Thank you for a reasoned response

@genessa thank you for clarifying what you were responding to.

@Redheadedgammy lol i had no idea he had deleted his post, but fortunately i had copied it up to show someone on facebook (as an example of a bad attitude) so i was able to reproduce it. otherwise, i would have had to explain without being able to show it.

g

@OwlInASack well, i don't know about edits... what if they're for a typo? you have to preserve typos forever? rofl! but i do see your point. i was lucky.

g

@OwlInASack i've been known to zap a few lol

g

2

I am not convinced that it was "about religion". It would seem that the Muslims do not want McDonalds (American/western influences in what they see as their domain), on all their street corners. The most stupid statement on the issue of why they attacked is, "They hate us for our freedoms." They don't give a shit about our "freedoms".

@ToolGuy Your statement is inaccurate, excessively emotional and not logic. Inasmuch as the topic was not "guns", if you were a woman I would suspect a hormonal issue.

@Bushshaker Forget ToolGuy, he is one of those Canadians whose hubris allows him to stick their nose in American politics.

@Bushshaker It always amazes me that Aussies, Brits, and Canadians seem to think that their opinions on American politics (especially gun control),should hold any weight. Conversely, I personally have not read any post from an American concerning the politics of those countries.

@Bushshaker I agree with the erosion of freedom and the advance into an Orwellian dystopia, not do sure about the gun thing, but then I’m not American.

1

The positives, as you say, the thousands of people that rallied, not the handful bent on destruction.

Politics caused the mess, people can clean it up.

1

What to always remember about 9/11?

That it was payback for decades of American foreign policy in the Mideast.

1

You are right in stating the the most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi. With that being said, I feel that Afghanistan was the right thing to do. I have always been against the war in Iraq. If any country, we should have attacked Saudi Arabia. I suppose it didn't happen for 2 reasons, one is that we bought a buttload of oil from them. Secondly, if a wayward bomb were to hit Mecca, a holy war would have been waged against us by every Muslim country in the world.

Certainly the UK sell them bucketloads of arms.

1

What happened on 9/11? I’ve forgotten. It’s got something to do with Newark?

1

I like the post at stonekettle.com it's how I feel

1

I recently read an article saying we have forgotten. I assumed it was going to be an anti-brown people article. BUT, instead it was about how people pulled together after 9/11 and helped each other. America truly was one nation united together. We’ve forgotten that and are divided now.

I’ll see if I can find the article

Found it!

[johnpavlovitz.com]

The American people only "pull together" under extreme circumstances, and only for short periods of time. It has always been that way.
I will never understand why people think we've never been more divided.
We've always been divided. We aren't any more divided now than we've been before.
There are way too many people in this country who have NO idea of our history.
The "good old days" NEVER existed. Never.

@KKGator I disagree somewhat. I feel like smaller communities, neighborhoods, what have you do look out for each other, especially in times of need. Definitely not on a national scale but communities do.

But I tend to be an optimist

@Marcie1974 You go right ahead and continue to be an optimist.
Somebody's gotta do it.
😉

@KKGator You have a point but one thing bears noting. Republicans love to sing the praises of Ronald Reagan, but if Reagan were around today, he would take today's GOP leaders into a back room somewhere and ream their a$$es eight ways from Sunday. Reagan despised liberals and Democrats, but at least he was willing to work with them to make compromises and get things done. He would be appalled at the way today's Republicans just refuse to do anything. Anyway, just my $.02.

@KKGator "The "good old days" NEVER existed. Never." You got it, exactly. I agree.

@dahermit there’s always going to be good and bad about every era.

@Marcie1974 My pont is that in depends what social-economic level you are from determines if you can view ANY era as "the good old days".

@Marcie1974 the only reference I have is the English Village mentality.

In those small communities labelling, segregation, oneupmanship, behind the gloss veneer of quaint and innocent, is rife.

Smal communities can be toxic and harsh.

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