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Ok. I don't believe that there is an almighty entity or the son of the almighty entity and most of the people on Agnosic. Com don't either, but that does not give me or anyone else the right of Bashing other peoples beliefs.

DonaldHRoberts 7 Oct 20
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3

I don't believe in that either.
I DO believe it's so okay to sharply disagree with beliefs contrary to my own, often returning tit-for-tat abusive, derisive, or derogatory language.
Having been on the receiving end of such abuse several times, I find it has had a corrective effect on my own language, even in some cases my attitude.
For that I'm grateful.

Alright, tit for tat!!!

@Castlepaloma Right. Which raises the question:what's a 'tat???'

Tit for tat is an interesting idiom that means a response in kind, retaliation, counterattack.

Tat has about 50 meanings , more often it means time to turn around.

I learn about this game from British game researchers. They selected 600 games related to most effective game for life success. Tit for Tat won world's most efficient game to play in life. I've hired 1000s of artist in my lifetime, it's like herding cats. Tit for tat really helped me deal with them on different levels.

@Castlepaloma Interesting. Sounds like you have most of the answers to life's riddles.
Must be nice.
I'd say, 'Let's share a bottle of wine and solve the rest of them,' but I don't drink.
And without it I'm speechless.
I'm no genius but I certainly drank like one.

9

Point of order:

Calling out factually incorrect beliefs is not the same thing as "bashing". For example, if someone believes that the Universe is 6,000 years old, or that no species ever alive evolved from another, and these are cornerstones of their belief system, these are factually wrong and should be corrected. How these beliefs then reflect on a belief in a Creator entity is up to the person involved to decide.

And then, of course, we have the realm of politics, which you didn't bring up, but which currently contains a very fertile ground for bashing, especially when there are so many verifiable factual statements that are being misstated.

Now, the manner in which one goes about correcting can be seen as "bashing", but that's subjective. Surely you're not calling for errors of fact to be left unchallenged for eternity?

9

My policy is don't mess with me and I will not mess with you. Unfortunately, the "other people" who believe, are obligated to proselytize, thus they feel the right to bash all non-believers. Sorry, but I won't take shit from anyone, they bash me I bash them twice as hard.

9

Wouldn't happen if they didn't attack us so often, evidently they don't believe in live and let live

bobwjr Level 10 Oct 20, 2019

Yeppers. The "War On Christmas" never dies , in their minds. Always being picked on....

8

No. We don’t have the right to bash other people. But if your beliefs are ridiculous, superstitious, bigoted or anti-facts, we have every right to bash them.

8

God? Holy Trinity? Virgin birth? Holy visions of the saints? The earth and universe is only 6,500 years old? Alien abductions? Faked moon landings? Flat earth? or how about the latest one I heard that Australia does not exist?
At what point do you call foul and say "bullshit"?

Cripes, I didn’t know Australia didn’t exist. Better find my way out of this alternative universe quickly or I will start believing I live 200kms out of Melbourne (which clearly doesn’t exist)

@Geoffrey51 Yes apparently it is a film set in S, America

@Geoffrey51 [theculturetrip.com]

@273kelvin Fantastic. I always thought there was something wrong about Christmas in the summer!

8

As long as their beliefs continue to endanger health, lives, laws, education, children's futures, the climate, and personal freedoms, yeah I'm going to bash it, oppose it, fight it at every given opportunity. This isn't a matter of benign disagreement, this is a matter of survival, fighting for what's right, and standing up for the weak.

8

You do not think one person has the right, or even social obligation, to question the beliefs of another if they see those beliefs as unsound?
Where is that line, in the questioning, disagreement with, or expression of said disagreement.

If someone believes human sacrifice is good, am I not obligated to disagree with them, even if the whole damn world thinks it is good?

@DonaldHRoberts Not to a believer there isn't.

If I ask a pointed question like " Why do you believe the spilled Blood is magical?"
Christians are upset and feel I am bashing their reoligion, because while factual, it does not reflect the spin by which they believe it.

So, are you advocating never asking them sharp questions?

Where is the line?

If someone "Bashes" a religion, how do we know they were not abused by that religion prior, not knowing them?

Define bashing, give me a more concrete example of what you mean please.

@DonaldHRoberts of course their actions continuously intervene in my life, in too many ways to list.

  1. Churches operate tax-free, meaning we all pay more.
  2. State law requires "In god we Trust" to be displayed at every public school, subjecting children to this particular (peculiar) belief system.

@DonaldHRoberts So apply the Jeffersonian Idea," if it neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket ", Honestly it does both, worse some religions are outright exploitive of our fellow citizens.

Take just ONE small facet of religion, Religious Iconography and clothing. People wear these, decorate homes and cars with these all the time under their freedom of expression. Almost all these believers do so with the notion "THIS I BELIEVE", but never take into account the dogma of their own creed which plainly states "Only this way is correct"
So by wearing such thing to declare themselves, Catholic, or Muslim, or Jewish, or whatever, they also imply "Your tribe is LESS THAN mine, because you follow a false path".

Religious people are free to proudly wear these things all the time, but I would be bashing their beliefs if I also exercise my right and tell them "I think thats all a lot of BS for profit"?

You think what, we should just let religions do, say whatever they think BUT we have to remain silent (or else we are bashing them (not their belief THEM as a human)?

@DonaldHRoberts Are you kidding yourself? Because you're not fooling anyone here. Religion is destructive to society. It divides and isolates.

7

Perhaps not - though, in truth, you do have a right to free speech.

And you DO have a right to tell people they're wrong - just as you can do if they say the Earth is flat, vaccines cause autism, or chinchillas sing Italian Grand Opera.

Also, if people use their religious beliefs to justify bigotry, injustice, intollerance, prejudice, or racism then you have not only a right to call them out for their unacceptable behaviour, you have an active moral duty to do so.

Then, if people are actively indoctrinating children in their religious beliefs, and demanding that it is their 'religious right' to demand that schools do likewise, then it is right and proper to object, and to do so with conviction.

People have a right to believe what they want - but that freedom to believe does NOT grant them any right to treat OTHERS unjustly or improperly on the basis of their beliefs. The freedom to believe is NOT the same as being free to impose, or demand, or discriminate, or persecute BASED on your beliefs - and you are RIGHT to make that point, LOUDLY.

Chinchillas voices are simply above your range of hearing!

7

That depends on what is being proffered as to whether I will bash.
I make no promises

You need make no promises, when it comes to bash or not, we all know which way you will go. LOL. And long may you do so.

@Fernapple Thank you!!

7

I used to be a member of sceptics group who's slogan was "attack the idea not the person" which sounds right to me. The problem occurs when the person is so tied to those ideas or beliefs that they are inseparable and they feel that if you attack the idea you are attacking them.

They say that you should not judge a book by its cover. But what if the cover has Jeffrey Archer on it?
Some people are so welded to their belief systems that they are almost indivisible from them.

7

I'm not sure what prompted this post, but if it's people's comments here on this site that is upsetting you, my feeling is that Agnostic.com is a "safe place" where we can say what we really feel, without hurting anyone's feelings, since we're all agnostic anyway.

Some of us may need to vent our frustrations that the religious people in our lives sometimes trample on our rights, or make us feel less than human, so rather than say hurtful things to their faces, we may vent our pent up anger here, and find some peace and calm in doing so.

Yeah it helps

Right!

Tacos help everything....😂

7

Why do people think they can believe any ridiculous nonsense and the rest of the world owes their delusions respect? People deserve respect, but if they are so attached to their beliefs that they can't differentiate between a human being and an idea, what do they expect? Ideas and beliefs do not advance if they are not challenged. If you cannot defend your views against criticism, perhaps you should reconsider your views.

Did the beliefs of the Manson family deserve respect? What about those of the "devout" christians in the KKK? Or Warren Jeffs?

JimG Level 8 Oct 20, 2019
7

I will defend anyone's right to believe whatever they want, but if I think any of those beliefs are absurd or dangerous I the right to criticize, bash, mock, make fun of or scorn any of those beliefs! Religious people have bashed atheism for millennia and have bashed atheists for that matter.

6

So are you telling me that if someone told you that they believe in superman or the wicked witch you wouldn't think they are stupid or insane? What's the difference?

@DonaldHRoberts what if their beliefs are getting people killed, as beliefs often do?

6

To their face? No that's rude.

Here on a site full of agnostics and atheists? We get to poke fun now and then.

We take a lot of slams out in the world for being as we are - I think it's ok to let off steam.

6

no problem with others beliefs . . problem when they want me to conform to them

6

And what if they are using the government, laws and their privileged status to force you to conform to their nonsensical beliefs?

5

Yes it does. Ideas are always up for criticism. As a matter of fact, some might consider criticizing bad ideas as an obligation we have to humanity. Beliefs are fair game. Where did you get the idea that anybody has a right to not be offended?

Deb57 Level 8 Oct 21, 2019
5

Actually, this is a public forum and any belief or idea is susceptible of bashing. It is par for the course. Those with skin so thin are welcomed to leave. There is no idea, theory, belief, or comment that is required to be treated with kiddy gloves. Such is life and such is the realm of ideas; very interesting and stimulating. Why would anyone want to turn life and these discussions into boring endeavors by setting “do not touch” signs all over the place?

5

I don't think that pointing out some of the absurdities in certain religions and beliefs that defies logic and common sense is bashing others. It is stating the obvious that the religious people refuse or are unable to figure out, and they just blindly accept.

5

Bashing people’s beliefs is a divisive phrase, but if you say, exposing the falsehoods of others beliefs you’re not imposing physical violence into the imagery. I think exposing false claims is our social responsibility.

5

I believe in generally trying to be respectful and tolerant of people who think differently than I do. However, I also believe that it's unreasonable to expect intelligent, thoughtful human beings not to criticize or speak harshly at times of absurd, immoral, or harmful ideas or beliefs (e.g. certain fundamentalist Christian or Islamic teachings) or of those who advocate them.

Ideas are always legitimate targets of criticism.

Some people bring condemnation or harsh criticism upon their own heads. Examples would be Trump, white supremacists, televangelists, etc. But in general, I try personally to hold a respectful attitude towards people who disagree with me, at least until they give me some clear reason to do otherwise.

5

Donald, I believe that 4 plus 4 = 95.345 and 7/8. SHAME on YOU if you disagree and bash me for believing this for ANY reason whatsoever

And also, I'd like make my answer THE LAW

twill Level 7 Oct 20, 2019

It is the will of God! 4+4=93.345+7/8ths! So mote it be! Hehehe

@DonaldHRoberts The whole subject of my belief is ridiculous. Why pick on mine?

@DonaldHRoberts Belief should not override facts and truth. If someone, or some organization will not accept being corrected, then what?

NO! 1+ 1 equals god and god equals,,,,,,,THE GOURD!,,,,,,,NO,,,,,THE SHOE!

5

I basically agree given that the term you used is "bashing". I see nothing wrong with challenging or questioning beliefs of others.

@DonaldHRoberts - No violent physical assaults have occurred here, unless someone has found a way to reach through cyberspace. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don't see this definition helps your argiment.

@RussRAB Someone just ate my breakfast! And they reached through my monitor!

5

A am friendly with those who believe things I don't. I welcome them to try convincing me, but I demand facts and evidence, not blind belief. So far, the evidence I've collected points to religion being a scam based on a myth. This is not bashing religion. It is stating the facts.

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