I have a great deal of resect for Ben CarsonA A truly great man; when I see him speaking on television he demonstrates clear gay mannerisms he is a brilliant creative man that may well be gay

That would depend on your sexuality, I don’t think that specific test has been done, but plenty have:
[psychologicalscience.org]
And of course some people would be sexually attracted to neither of them. Just because you’re stuck with someone it doesn’t mean you’d have chemistry, no matter how charming they are

@girlwithsmiles Only think bi or undecided are making choices..... LGTQ and heteros probably do not have a choice.

@chiara23k What about pansexuals?

@demifeministgal ...LOL... um.. they are choosing it all?

@chiara23k some gay men/ lesbian women marry because it’s ‘normal’ or are pretty much forced to; and have families, some people’s sexuality seems to change, or become clearer with age.
It’s definitely different for most individuals, there are no one size fits all answers

Christians like to say that being gay is a behavioral choice, but I disagree. Being gay, straight or something else is an orientation of one's attractions and does not change even when behaviors may be curbed to be inconsistent with the orientation. Research shows distinct differences in brain configuration between gay and straight individuals and no reputable research has ever shown that any therapy has changed an individual's orientation. There has been a few cases (like less than 5) where a stroke has apparently change someone's sexual orientation. More often a stroke changes the patient's sex drive, usually diminishing it. The documented cases of a stroke changing someone's orientation have been both gay to straight and straight to gay.

@RussRAB Even if science could manufacture a pill that would change a person's sexual orientation, the choice to take it rests with the individual. I wouldn't take that pill because I'm perfectly happy with my sexual-orientation just as it is. The goal of the conversation should be uncovering their lack of acceptance. All too often, we waste time arguing over the wrong thing. I hear the secularist debating with the theist over, is it a choice? Resulting in this, "No, it's not a choice, yes, it is...your stupid!...no, you are!" The conversation with the theist never gets to the biting point, which is why is gay immoral?

@paul1967 - Ask a Christian why is gay immoral and they will recite several well known and well rehearsed Bible verses starting with Leviticus. Because the Bible says so is all many Christians need to decide being gay is immoral. Even with gay marriage being legal in many countries doesn't change their minds. Gay sex within a same sex marriage is no different for many Christians than is sex outside of marriage. The question of the morality of being gay is settled as far as these Christians are concerned.

IMO, the real question isn't about morality but why should Christian morality trump all other moral systems in our secular nation? (We could get an argument about whether the US is a secular or Christian nstion). Why is the imposition of their Christian morality defined by them as freedom?

You just reworded his question though. I think you need to consider this: even if one does not act on their sexual urges, they are still gay. Just as a straight virgin that has not dated yet is still heterosexual, the same applies to gay people. Basically, you do not have to engage in any "lifestyle" to be homosexual or hetersoexual. It is about ATTRACTION, not whether one acts on one's attraction.

@demifeministgal I did reword the question because the point I'm making is, why does their God think homosexuality is immoral. We get occupied in this counterproductive banter with theists over, is being gay a choice? Even if it were a choice, why does that matter? I want to know why they support a God concept that is so homophobic. I want to challenge theists to think about why they object to same-sex love. That's to me is a more productive dialogue.

@RussRAB I agree with you about their Biblical responses. I'm fine starting with, so the Bible tells you so... I just redirect them to something the Bible fails to address well which is, why does their God tell them it's immoral. Then I ask, setting aside the Bible why do they think it's immoral. Usually, I get Bible blocked people who don't care about the why question. To them, it's enough that God says so and that's all they need to know. However, sometimes I get someone to rethink their position.

@paul1967 - I think we could address the issue as one of religious freedom since this is the current buzz word term used by religious consetvatives to discriminate against gay people in various situations. Gays have the religious freedom to define gay sex as moral despite anyone else's objections. It's in the Constitution which guarantees this religious freedom.

It is for sure but they have this idea that homosexuality will put a stop to human reproduction. Not from where I'm looking, and I'm in a secular society. People are still producing the lil darlins all the time.

I believe the reason why people are so enraged sexuality and other sexual deviations; it's due to the fact they have some of these desires themselves it's a direct transference of Rage between themselves to others

@Radu It probably was a factor, but because most people at that time did not have a concept of prime or composite numbers many cases went unreported.

It came out eventually. I couldn't hide it once I started spending all my money and free time chasing after women.

@Sgt_Spanky hopefully you weren’t shamed

I shouldn’t make light of it. If I was going to be mad or upset with my kid, their orientation is about the last thing that would concern me. I just don’t understand what the big deal is. Just a stupid think to worry about

@Marcie1974 It's like being mad at someone's eye color. It's how they were born, just accept it and move on.

@Sgt_Spanky exactly

"Make it a law they must reproduce"?????
Because the Earth doesn't have enough bodies infesting it????????????

I grew up Catholic, and it was mandated that you produce as many little Catholics as you could. It's why they forbid birth control. To them, taking over the world was a matter of quantity instead of quality, and families with 10+ kids was common in my school. When that's their aim, whether or not it agrees with one's biology - or the world's overpopulation - doesn't seem to matter.

@AnneWimsey Humans cover this planet in plague numbers. Only insects populate earth in greater numbers.

@Lauren I hadn’t considered that aspect.. Seems the Fundamentalists have stolen the idea. So, if a child is not prone to reproduce, it’s a dud? So pressure it into reproducing in order to produce more Catholics, Fundamentalists, and homosexuals.. Why didn’t Atheists think of that

So glad my Father broke from his Catholic links … though his description of their alcoholism seemed enough of a reason for him..

@Varn I'm so glad I broke with them, too, for many reasons. How they treated women, but then the god stuff. My mother, who became deathly ill throughout each pregnancy, finally started using birth control after having four kids in six years. It was obvious she was doing it, and she felt so guilty that she confessed it repeatedly because it was a sin.

I worked for a catholic auxiliary bishop, and it was an insight into the rampant alcoholism. Good for your father.

It's a name or a title. By the rules of correct punctuation it should be capitalized. It's not a statement of respect.

@Bobby9 I don't either and when discussing god, I purposely use the pronoun "it" to refer to it.

Yes, it does. There's a lot of personal prejudice and irrational fear behind it.

I don’t think so. Homosexuality is currently trendy and it’s members are very vocal but it’s still a very small percentage overall. I’m sure what you say does indeed happen more in the religious community than the secular but even if every gay person did it, it couldn’t account for the whole lot of em being so..., well you pick an adjective.

@JacobMeyers I don’t think it accounts for everything. It might be a small component of the overall issue. I have zero data or info behind this. Just a random thought that crossed my mind and I thought I would toss it out there.

Yesterday I suggested this to Chinese female ... she got almost angry at me.

Your professor was conflating behavior with orientation. We can control our actions but our orientation is inherent.

I think you are asking valid questions.
My answer is that there are separate issues in this seemingly single question.

Sexual behavior is one thing and is definitely molded by environment and experience. Behavior per se is a choice, but desire and inclination to engage in one behavior over another is definitely not simply choice. It is influenced by environment, past experience, and by orientation.

Sexual orientation is about what sex or gender we find sexually arousing. The research heavily suggests this is partly genetic, partly hormonal--likely programmed in utero and therefore not simply elective for the individual.

So what confuses the issue even more is that sexual orientation is not dichotomous, not simply binary. There are gradations along a spectrum. Many of us have some degree of bisexual potential, and not merely 50/50 equal attraction either way. Experience might very well influence people more strongly who are closer to the middle of that spectrum, in that it may put certain sexual ideas more in the front of our minds than other ideas. People close to either extreme on the orientation spectrum would be less influenced by experience.

Which brings me to the third aspect of sexuality...sexual identity, which is how we choose to see ourselves as sexual beings. There is heavy cultural influences in this, including language and what categories our culture teaches us even exist. After that, our personal environment, role models, and experiences all play some part.

Personally, I was married to a woman for 25 years and identified as bisexual for a chunk of that time, even though inside I knew I was more attracted to men but was afraid of descrimination and rejection, and quite honestly, back in the day, of dying of aids. I now identify as gay, as I have no intention of pursuing sexual intimacy with any women. But hey, on a desert island, who knows, right? My orientation seems to be somewhere on that spectrum I sometimes jokingly call myself a 70/30 gay.

@MikeInBatonRouge I like this 'spectrum' answer. I identify as straight but have had a couple of fun lesbian experiences.

@MsDemeanour great. It is even more varied than a two dimensional spectrum when one adds gender identity to the mix and things like pansexualism and demi- and asexualism.

Because if you refuse or resist crime hardened thugs will beat you and rape you anyway so better to grab your ankles and just deal with it rather than getting beaten or shanked. It's a survival strategy not a sexual preference.

Sexuality is a biological imperative hardwired into our brains at birth. Is being religious a biological imperative? No, it isn't, it's a cultural one so it's entirely a choice to either accept or reject religion as a whole or accept or reject any specific religion.

@Sgt_Spanky I was being sarcastic but you fell for it.... Okay.

why would a mother want to dress their boy up in dresses and if they did why would they want a homosexual child homosexuality is a hard life. yes many men and women engage in homosexuality while in prison but I would argue there still heterosexuals choosing to act homosexual " gay for the stay ". personally do you have any homosexual desires have you ever thought about a same-sex partner?

@m16566 I have never had any homosexual desires. I do believe my sexual preferences are a function of my environment. I completed a PhD in electrical engineering, and worked as an engineer and engineering manager for about 20 years. The majority of the women I interacted with as peers were Asian. My first wife and second wife were Asian, and my girlfriend is Asian. I'm not really attracted to non-Asian women the same way I am attracted to Asian women. I would suspect that has something to do with the environment I lived and worked in.

Do you have some sort of data on boys being dressed as girls causing homosexuality? Other than anecdotal that is.

@Theresa_N I seriously question simply wearing girl's clothes can drive a hetero male to homosexual behavior. unless there were gay proclivities inherent in the boy to begin with. It doesn't add up for me.

@Sgt_Spanky I would guess the mother wanted a daughter, so she dressed her son in girl's clothing. She also likely gave him positive feedback when he acted in feminine ways and negative feedback for masculine behavior.

@Sgt_Spanky On the flip-side, I know three tomboys from my hometown who had fathers who were obsessed with sports. Both girls competed and did quite well in sports against little boys, then when they got into high school and competed against girls, they dominated in sports like basketball and softball. Those three turned out to be lesbians. It could have been a similar type of feedback, positive reinforcement for masculine behavior and negative reinforcement for feminine behavior.

@BD66 I'm not saying it wouldn't be anomalous but true gays are born, not made due to aberrant parenting.

@Sgt_Spanky There is an environmental factor. Look at Jason and Jaron Collins. Identical Twins, Same DNA. Jason is gay, Jaron is not:

@Sgt_Spanky A larger study in Sweden

[sciencemag.org]

Are you aware that until around 130 years ago there was in western society a breeching cerimony, when a boy got his breeches around the age of seven. Until then boys wore the same clothes and dresses as girls.
Culture directs us as to what is normal. In western society the military has been a straight male enclave until recently, and homosexuality is seen as populated by effeminate males. Yet look to Ancient Greece and the Spartans. The toughest, hardest strongest killer military societies humanity has produced and gay/bi. Surely not all Spartan men were gay/bi or is bisexual/pansexual our basic normal?
There is evidence to support this...

A boy wearing dresses does NOT make him gay! That’s absolutely ridiculous. A gay kid may wear a dress, but wearing one doesn’t cause gayness. Wow.

@Sofabeast It sounds like we are 100% in agreement?

Culture directs us as to what is normal. In western society the military has been a straight male enclave until recently, and homosexuality is seen as populated by effeminate males. Yet look to Ancient Greece and the Spartans. The toughest, hardest strongest killer military societies humanity has produced and gay/bi. Surely not all Spartan men were gay/bi or is bisexual/pansexual our basic normal?

This would imply that the environment in which the Spartans raised their boys led to a higher incidence of gay and bisexual behavior. Don't you agree?

@BD66 I do agree. Although there are biological drives which lend us to be more hetero or homosexual, culture also guides our behavioural norms. Consider the Gurhka. The men will often engage in homosexual sex without being gay. It's just sex, and if you're up in the highlands tending Yaks with no women about, it is often the duty of the youngest to 'play' the woman.
Often in male prisons, some men will have sex with other men wilst encarserated just for sexual release or to exert power over another. Once outside, they may display anti gay sentiment, until banged up again.
Look to the Polynesian peoples pre-Christianity. The cultural norm for women would be to openly have sex with new travellers. If you didn't have sex with the chief's wife, that would be a great insult.
These are just some examples of culture affecting sexual behaviour. In other words, you do not have to be homo or bisexual to enjoy sex with someone of your own gender!

This is why religion is so insidiously evil, it empowers people to do hateful things they probably wouldn't do unless they had moral cover from a higher authority.

@m16566 most religions aren’t homophobic, apparently, but the most popular ones are: [answers.com]

good point for example in Buddhism homosexuality is totally a personal issue it has no bearing on being a good Buddhist

you had many good things to say; I am disturbed by the POINT that you consider homosexuality abnormal. homosexuals have made up a part of our society since the dawn of time. it is a recent phenomenon that a person choose a team ( this is mostly true of men) women are allowed to experiment with homosexuality it is considered okay as long as it doesn't go too far and Men become obsolete.
sex and Power are always connected at some level in ancient times young man often engage in homosexuality and then later in life got married and had children.

@m16566 My intent wasn't to single out homosexuality as 'abnormal' and though I haven't re-read the above, I don't recall having used that term. I tried to spotlight how what is considered 'normal' in what we call civilizations, is in fact a counter to what is natural by inborn canon and Nature's intentionality. In that regard, most of our behaviors qualify and our sexually related ones transcend mere homosexuality when it comes to 'fooling Mother Nature'. It is actually because of the way homosexual behaviors are regarded by many societies' orthodoxies that what is occasional behavior in Nature becomes an anxiety and guilt ridden compulsive behavioral identity in 'anti-Nature'. Many other secondary reactions, sexual and non, result from our (what I like to call) brine existence. Some are therapeutic substitutes, some just benign and others are destructive to self and others.

Many non-sexually related secondary (substitutional) drives are developed because of thwarted primary ones. Left alone, primary and instinctually driven curiosities appear at their developmental level, are acted upon with most receding to their places in character 'landscape' while we continue development at subsequent stages. Interference or blocking in ways with a high emotional charge will cause emotional injury and a 'turning-in' of frustrated drives. Not only do they not disappear. They are harbored restlessly and will seek 'cover' via other outlets, with more of an emotional charge than what drove them back in the first place. There is an entire soup of these kinds of compensatory behaviors that are well represented in the mainstream of our 'civilization' and, by the way, are at the roots of addictions.

Though occasional homosexual behaviors are documented among human cultures closer to nature, like other kinds of sexual acting-out, it barely merits any attention at all and certainly not rejection by the group. Our nearest animal cousins, bonobos, are spontaneously affectionate and sexual at any time and some of their behaviors are same-sex as well.

It is, I believe, the emotional charge, positive or negative, reflected back upon us by our social organizations in our time that thwarts Nature by forcing us to live within confines of self-destructive, pathogenic systems that usurp power from Nature to freely condemn her phenomena as abnormal and it isn't limited to sexuality.

Go ahead. Talk.

I just did.

Contribute.

So straight conservatives never have anal sex themselves? hmm seems unlikely

Who We Are primates that mate year round sex is a big part of Who We Are, that is why it was necessary to create so many taboos, when we were a hunter-gatherer Society it wasn't necessary to know who the father of the child was it was simply part of the community from birth, when pedigree became important it became necessary for men to control a woman's reproductive system to ensure parentage. since we all have sexual desires heterosexual homosexual and unappropriate it becomes necessary to control ourselves and others. as people transfer their internal struggles two others it creates hatred and mistrust