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I would like to submit the idea that religion IS politics... mostly grass-roots, but there are definitly different levels of it, organized in it's own ways.

Hell, everything is politics any more. If you have a philosophy, adopted, assigned, or designed, it's largely political... like this site. The instant you add people from different backgrounds, here come the politics, the oppositions, the alliances, the BS, and yes... the fricken party line.

Politics is intrinsic to people; even though we may say we hate it, we are unable to exist without it.

Agree or disagree?

EarnestEccentric 7 Oct 7

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Well, yeah: obviously! Anything involving two or more people is political in some level. A lot of my work is in public policy, which is politics. I like two definitions, which I teach my students: politics as “the mechanics of power,” and as “the art of the possible.” For better or worse, I admit I find it kind of fascinating — and useful ...

@EarnestEccentric Thanks for the kind words! As for civility, I find that it’s practical, ESPECIALLY with those with whom I disagree. If we can agree to disagree some times, and collaborate at others, we have a problem-solving relationship that benefits everyone. Aggressive posturing degrades the processes that should be serving us all.


Both have elements of governance and power over fellow humans, this much is true.

Mvtt Level 7 Oct 7, 2020

I think you've got it backwards. Politics is a religion, both sects are manipulating their followers for profit, but one is a lot more threatening in its rhetoric and less tolerant of digression from its doctrine.

I can be liberal and support the second amendment or even profess to be pro-life, but I would be a heretic if I were conservative in favor of "reasonable" gun control policies or a woman's right to choose.

Every political party is out there asking for monetary contributions too. That's another thing they have in common with religions.

JimG Level 8 Oct 7, 2020

It is all about money and power, not about religious beliefs. No morality in money, power or religion.


Pretty much everything humans do is political.
Religion is definitely political to the max.
It's where people confused by facts find representation.


No. Most religions are total system ideologies. That is, they purport to explain and include everything. So do some political total system ideologies. like communism. Religion becomes political when it attempts to use or control government power.


When religious organisations put millions into campaigning for certain legislation it’s hardly a subtle link 😉
Step 8 in running a campaign: []


Religion and politics have held hands for centuries. When your ruler is "ordained by gawd" can't get away from it.


"The personal is political." - Carol Hanisch-

It has always been political. I agree.

"Politics" is not a four-letter word 🙂 It is how the power and wealth are distributed and controlled. We can ignore it, but we can't avoid it.


It struck me also that politics is part of our genetic heritage. All primates, and for that matter almost all animals, practice politics. For instance, I've read about bird species in which the dominant males show off their prowess by watching for predators from the most conspicuous and exposed location, or feed the lower ranked birds while refusing gifts in return. Most species have dominant males and females in their hierarchies.

It seems reasonable to speculate that part of the origin of religion was the notion that, just as humans have alpha males and females running society, thus the universe must have alpha males and females running things. As above, so below. Societies with somewhat more egalitarian mores, like the Greeks, imagined gods and goddesses. Strict patriarchies like the Hebrews imagined a single alpha male as their patron deity. (The command "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" implies very clearly that the Hebrews recognized the existence of other tribal gods competing with YHWH.)

In this view, religion grew out of the programmed behavioral politics of our species as much as from our inquisitive nature and our desire to explain natural processes.


I would like to submit the idea that religion IS nonsense.


Yes, I agree. The current problem today is that opinion can come from so many places and the gullible public takes it all at face value thinking it is all real. An uninformed person ends up as dumb as a rock and then wants to argue with you on how they are right. Everyone feels they have a trail of evidence when things are all hollow words with no logic.


Yes I agree. I believe that we are all born with rudimentary politics, religion and science "What are you doing riding my kiddy bike?" Look at those stars Daddy" "Where is the Milk bar?" Often these are squashed out of us by bad experiences [also for good reasons of safety and they all need structured re-education.

I have been advocating centering that re-education on science since I finished my science teaching career. Why ?- because it is fundamental to the other two, giving a methodical, cyclic ,simple pattern searching and comparison set of processes for problem solving. Once it is solving problems in all three areas, society will change by setting examples of good democratic practices and naturally absorbing good solutions.

PS Please do not elect a President who does not understand science processes again.

While it is also true the Trump doesn't understand science, the real problem is that he, like his evangelical base, hates science. Evolutionary science disproves Christianity by corollary, so Christians detest science. Trump panders to his base, and is deeply resentful of anyone learned.

@racocn8 Yes . I often wonder why I am trying to support a move which for historical and psychological reasons is hated by some many people

@Mcflewster Perhaps it is the right and honest thing to do. Learning science is enriching to ones life in a way that other branches of education are not. Science provides at least one answer as to what we are and why we are here. The answer is radically different from anything from religion, but most importantly, it is supported by the evidence. We may not like the answer, but that's on us.

@racocn8 Thanks for saying this. If we could fathom a way to beat the initial resistance to relearning some science it could really take off. My phrase is "OWN YOUR OWN SCIENCE" to further increase your responsibility for the consequences of one's action and fighting fake news etc It has to get personal and when they realise something useful from it, they too will say "Eureka".


Religion is bullshit.

But like its bovine origin, Natural.

@Mcflewster there's nothing natural in religions, in fact the only natural state is not believing, all humans are born that way

@Mofo1953 I am only thinking it is natural to wonder where our planet and ourselves came from. Of course the religionists get the wrong answer.


I think you need to define the word "politics".

@EarnestEccentric So how does that definition fit "everything"? There are endeavors between people that aren't a power play or related to governing.

Going on a date.
Visiting family.
Visiting friends.
Getting and education.

There are numerous activities that don't necessarily have anything to do with a power play or governing.


Religion has it’s realm; inside, it’s quasi-political, with a power struggle between people. Has it’s pecking orders, conventions, officers, ultimate arbitrators, rules of engagement and fanatical adherents.

Participatory democratic politics within a nation should be separate, but, in that they’re also made of ‘people,’ have similar attributes. The difference is, democratic politics deals with reality, not fantasy. It’s costs, rewards, and goals are actually achievable. And, everyone gets a vote.

Charismatic populists arise from either realm, but only within democratic politics can they be systematically replaced (voted out). Opinions and interests will always vary, but within participatory politics - we have a say. In religion, we simply wade into the land of make believe ~

Varn Level 8 Oct 7, 2020

I don't think "everything of politics" is as accurate as "anything can be politicized". In 2019, no one would have said wearing medical equipment to protect against contacting a deadly virus was a political issue. Now, unbelievably, it is.


Well.... politics is frequently religion. Witness the number of people who adhere to the Cult of Donald, and can't articulate why, even though they admit that he lies, fornicates, cheats, has been an adulterer, and contradicts all the values they say they hold, they still claim he's more moral than a Sunday-school teacher who is running on the other ticket.

I think I saw video proof of this somewhere. 😝

@JeffMurray Yyyeahhhh.... that was your post, wasn't it...


Agree and disagree. We are able to exist without it, it just takes so much conscious effort by so many people that it doesn't appear that way. But that effort seems it would be futile so in that sense, agree.


Agree that politics is intrinsic to people, disagree that religion is politics. Religion has little to do with my politics, lack of religion does.

Yeah, there had to be a disconnect somewhere because by the transitive property the OP stated everything was intrinsic to people.

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