Renowned liberal Atheist Richard Dawkins claims Liberals and Leftists are cowards in regards to Islam
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He's right. You can talk about pedo-priests but if you say the prophet Muhammad was a pedophile, you are an islamophobe. If you bring up 9/11 and mention that 19 Moslems flew planes into the towers so they get with 70 virgins? You are a hateful racist. If you bring up honor killings or even say the word "Sharia*, you are a wingnut bigot.
barjoe
Level 9
Mar 10, 2023
7
But nearly all the 9-11 attackers were Saudis, but bush2 took us to war with Afghanistan and Iraq. I don't think anyone really excuses the honor killings who is outside of it. But men in the US have even recently been exonerated for killing a wife they believed was cheating.
@BufftonBeotch Dubya had his own agenda because his father lost the presidency and Saddam Hussein was still in power at the same time. He invented Iraqi involvement to carry a torch for GHW Bush and 1991 Iraq Kuwaiti war. True the 19 hijackers were all Saudis. They were also all Mohammedans who killed 3K people for their religious jihad. Honor killings are acts of savages. Don't forget Charlie Hebdo. Don't forget Islamic jihadists posting videos proudly beheading Americans. There are plenty of Muslims who still defend it all. People were dancing in the streets of Palestine on 9/11. People will swear that didn't happen but it most certainly did.
@barjoe And what of the Mexican women and other Latina lost. All of them nearly exclusively devoted christian.
Nearly all religions are lethal to girls and women.
@BufftonBeotch We can't single out Mohammedans. Maybe Richard Dawkins was describing yourself.
@barjoe I just only see small degrees where Islam adherents are worse than others.
After all, there is a treaty in the UN for codify that women are human beings deserving of equal rights ad protections. It has been signed and ratified by all countries in the world except these -- Iran, Sudan, Somalia, Tonga, Palau -The Holy See (big surprise) - And the United States.
Forgive me if I continue to think that the US is NOT any better.
Sorry, but I'm a Liberal and a Freethinker, and I do advocate for the rights of women and for sexual freedom, but I think we would be better off if both the Bible and the Koran did not exist, and that people would start recognizing what dangerous, archaic and repressive literature they are. Muslem countries need a "Liberal Arts" education instead of rote memorization of the repressive laws of Bronze-Age Islamic bigotry, designed to keep people ignorant and submissive to people who don't practice what they preach! (Notice, I did say both the Bible and Kuran) Salman Rushdie is my hero.By the way, I also admire some "Christians" like Jimmie Carter who DO practice what they preach, and don't foist their beliefs on others.
fishline79
Level 7
Mar 11, 2023
6
The Salman Rushdie case is a prime example of what savage animals they are.
@barjoe Not to mention the various attacks in France, Denmark, US and others. Any group who believes their way is the only way (including Israel, who claim to be "God's chosen people" ) should be ignored.
@fishline79 Eradicated? Who said anything about eradicating people? You did? You need to shut the fuck up with that shit.
@barjoe
Eradicate: destroy completely; put an end to.
"this disease has been eradicated from the world" OK maybe that was a bad choice of words and not what I meant. I changed my comment. I was referring to the philosophy or institution, not the "people". Lighten up.
@fishline79 When you speak of eradicated regarding a group that means genocide. I saw you changed it to "ignored". I am openly critical of religions, Islam in particular for their misogyny, violence and tyranny but that doesn't mean I want to eradicate Muslims or any other group.. When I read stuff like that, I can't "lighten up", lest my silence taken to mean I concur.
Eraducate will win the OED's neologism of the year.
Eraducate is a portmanteau of eradicate and educate.
Its use is largely confined to religious debate on whether or not an infinity of angels dance on the head or the point of o pin e.
@barjoe Suit yourself. I think I conceded to your complaint, and explained myself as much as I'm prepared too. If that's not to your satisfaction, that's your problem, and you are a self-righteous prig. Frankly I'm the last person to be called violent or bigoted, so sue me.
@waitingforgodo The people who post here are the most intolerant dorks I have ever encountered, for "freethinkers". So I spelled eradicate wrong in it's first usage! Excuse my typo. W.t.F. does OED mean, anyway, or "Point of o pin e"?
I wasn't complaining about the typo, I was lauding its inadvertent brilliance.
The OED is the Oxford English Dictionary.
Head of a pin: o pin: o pin e: opine.
Then the people here must be the most intolerant dork prescriptivists and the most intolerant dork descriptivists you have encountered.
@waitingforgodo Sorry, but lately I seem to get "raked over the coals" for every comment I make, even the most seemingly innocuous. Besides, you have what is, to me, a rather cryptic way of writing.
A recent incident at an English school shows how the religious extremists can try to bully the rest.
A boy was persuaded to bring a copy of the Koran in to the school and it was slightly damaged when being passed around.
The leaders of the local mosque are demanding that this should be considered a hate crime and the boys in question be suspended from school. They have even been getting death threats. We are so worried about hurting the feelings of a vociferous minority.
A totally over the top reaction and those people should be told what to do with themselves and their precious Koran.
Moravian
Level 8
Mar 10, 2023
5
Cite the school and the date this happened.
Or did you learn about this on a blog?
For one thing the child would not just "pass around" the Quran. They were probably taunting him and snatched it and were tossing it around.
@BufftonBeotch [independent.co.uk]
Touchy !!. I have no great love for Suella but I agree with her this time.
@David_Cooper Blasphemy laws were repealed in the UK as recently as 2008 although I am sure there were no convictions for many years before this.
Whenever i am told by Christians how loving their religion is I tell them to ask the descendants of Archie Aitkenhead. Difficult, a he was the last person to be executed for blasphemy in Scotland c 300 years ago.
@David_Cooper The death threat are obviously coming from the insane. But the bullying was also grounds for severe punishment.
Yet, during an interview earlier this year with The Sun, he condemned his fellow liberals as "cowards" over their apparent failure to condemn Islam for the way it treats certain people.
When asked whether it was possible to have a sensible conversation about Islam, Prof Dawkins explained why it had became particularly difficult for him.
He said: "People who think I'm right wing, are decent liberal people who I regard as my own - I've always been among those people.
"But I regard them as cowards because they cave in and they do not observe their principles of feminism, of gay rights, all the things that decent liberal people believe, suddenly they forget about them when it comes to Islam.
waitingforgodo
Level 8
Mar 9, 2023
4
I have the highest regard for Professor Dawkins, but I suspect that he did not consider the full range of natural variations among liberals. Speaking as an example of the agnostic/atheist variety, I can say my attitude toward Christianity, Judaism, and Islam is fairly even-handed. I say, a pox on all their houses! 
Flyingsaucesir
Level 8
Mar 10, 2023
4
That's my outlook. And civil liberties in the US are far more endangered by Xtians than any other religion.
@BufftonBeotch Yes, in this country, the Xtians are, by a large margin, the greatest threat to freedom.
There have been a few political figures on all areas of the political spectrum who have spoken out against Islam, however, in the Conservative Party, Sajid Javid who is a Muslim was Home Secretary. The UK Parliament has become more ethnically diverse over the years and the current PM, Rishi Sunak, is a Hindu. Religion or not holding a religious viewpoint is not such a contentious issue here in the UK as it is in the US. So, I do wonder about Richard Dawkin’s statement in the above quoted excerpt.
ASTRALMAX
Level 8
Mar 11, 2023
3
There is alot of things like freedom and how the Muslims treat sexuality, I would not agree with. A Good point, is to live and let live. As long as their tribe is not harming my tribe. Or mandating anything force against me or my tribe's .Will not except if anybtribe is being harmful or dishonest against my tribe as an artist, bio-orgamism and individualism. Certainly, I will challenge back or crawl back into my cowadly tiny box..
I consider myself a left leaning liberal, but I have never been a coward to any religion, they all suck and they're all a danger to society.
Mofo1953
Level 9
Mar 11, 2023
3
@FrancoFran nothing is a religion to me, to assume that without knowing who I am is not only asinine but outright stupid.
I'm not and i have noticed neither are many of you too!.
is he always making stupid generalizations like this or descending into dementia now?
AnneWimsey
Level 9
Mar 9, 2023
3
He's not at all senile, he's just old enough that he doesn't give a shit and isn't afraid to tell the truth.
Ryo1:
I wouldn't insult his intelligence, though I don't like the generalisation he makes. I agree that true liberals (and conservatives for that matter) would never abandon their principles.
Dementia for speaking the truth ? You wold be fortunate if you had 1% of his intellect you pathetic asswipe.
@repcon try "would' instead of "wold" and try rereading my comments...i worship neither gawd or dawkins, unlike you apparently.
@biguy12 Says the guy making thinly-veiled sad references to his junk........
That’s because atheist aren’t fond of religions in general. And the leftist that aren’t atheist tend to be proponents of christianity. These are the libs that are referred to as snowflakes, because they can’t decide if they want science or mythology to dictate and govern them…..
Aaron70
Level 8
Mar 9, 2023
3
@biguy12 What is your purpose in reminding us of Dawkins' opinion?
waitingforgodo
Level 8
Mar 10, 2023
2
Just finished listening to this interview. Definitely agree with him.
I recall Armin Nevabi mentioning something similar, several times on his podcasts, and in person during his visits to Mississauga and Toronto (went to them both), he says (paraphrasing), "I will fight for your right to believe in anything you want, BUT you must also allow your beliefs to be open to criticism."
MacStriker
Level 7
Mar 10, 2023
2
Where did Dawkins actually say what is quoted above?
Scott321
Level 7
Mar 10, 2023
2
Evidently you do not know much about one of the most famous and familiar atheists ,evolutionary biologists and authors on the planet There are numerous videos on YouTube with him stating this in person ,including debates, Also many publications .
@biguy12 I could not locate an exact quote as your OP above. "Liberals and Leftists are cowards” in Google produces your OP. Nothing by Dawkins himself. No luck with “They believe in protecting the rights of feminism”. "they are completely silent" "dawkins" doesn’t yield anything relevant. Was it a paraphrase instead of a direct quote?
I know enough about Dawkins to realize he popularized George Williams’ concept of the evolutionary gene…to much fanfare and per Ernst Mayr merely wrapped “concept” in a fancy evolutionary package with memes. He and Gould didn’t quite see eye to eye on many things. He tweeted plenty of of off-putting things over the years.
@biguy12
I asked if that entire quote attributed to Dawkins was direct or just a paraphrase and you evaded by directing me to an hour long video. Starting just after timestamp 50:11 it is at best a paraphrase and not a direct quote excepting the “So they overlook the HOMOPHOBIA and the rampant MISOGYNY”. The whole “ "Liberals and Leftists are cowards. They donot believe in their own principles.They believe in protecting the rights of feminism, Gay people but when it comes to Islam. They are completely silent." is not even close to verbatim.
Coming from the auto-generated Youtube transcript which may itself be off we get Dawkins kinda saying: “decent liberal people who I regard as my own people I've always been among among those people who I regard as cowards because they they cave in and they do not observe their principles of feminism of gay rights all the things that decent liberal people believe suddenly they forget about them when it comes to Islam…” At about the 51:07 mark we get “they overlook the homophobia and them and that the rampant misogyny and the rampant homophobia of extreme Islamism…”
Iran and Saudi Arabia have the money and the motive to pay both sides to denounce Jews or Israel. Some recipients are (self-hating) Jews themselves! Strange bedfellows indeed. Even so, the news still carries what the Muslims are doing in Afghanistan, Iran and in Pakistan. Islam will always have its defenders, unfortunately.
racocn8
Level 9
Mar 9, 2023
2
Lefty go from extreme of the gay ABCs then puperty blockers for kid in school. To ignoring extreme homophobe and misogynistic people. I'm a happy anarchist watching these freak shows, peacefully. Send in the political clowns
Castlepaloma
Level 8
Mar 9, 2023
1
Puberty blockers are looked on approvingly for promising, young female gymnasts to keep them smaller in statue and from developing too much.
But this is further approved because it may be administered without the mere females consent or will.
Sweden banned puberty blockers because it would sterilized reproduction systems and harm bone structures.
Do school yard Muslims force everyone to pray 10x a day? When that bs happens I hope the teachers and school leaders forbid it and don't cave.
K9Kohle
Level 6
Mar 10, 2023
1
And it is the goal of the right wing extremists to coerce all children to do specific Xtian prayers in schools and to replace science with bible study.
@BufftonBeotch FKN Neanderthals.
There have been so many words wasted on the term, "god" and so much lip service paid to describing the concept or justifying its existence, if only to rationalize one's own use of the word "god". I thought that the very use of the word to describe the meaning behind the word, could be considered a "cop-out", as if to use the term was to acknowledge it's existence. If that were true, non-believers would be recused from using the term as if just using it required admitting it is something real, and thusly being guilty of hypocrisy . Therefore I decided to relegate it into simple semantic terms. We use the word, therefore it exists. I, as an "agnostic" claim the right to use the word, if only because it does exist, just as I use the word "infinity" or "Heaven" even though I can not describe them or prove that they exist. Here, then is what I say when asked if I believe in "god".
What is god?: God is a concept, and a name given to what we do not understand , and the subject of many symbols, none of which has a claim to exclusivity.
Many years ago, for the reasons I just described, I wrote a song, which I later included in my book of poetry "Food for Thought", in which I take the liberty of ascribing a sort of "anthropomorphic" quality to the term. This, for reasons of "poetic license" should naturally not be taken literally. It merely states that god can be anything you want it to be.
“God and Man”
(An agnostic’s view of the deity)I am the writing on the wall
I am the smoke signals that rise
I am the autumn leaves that fall
against the brisk October skies
It’s hard to say just how I feel
I only know I must be right
I am the ever turning wheel
I am the darkness… I’m the light
God and man…they are one
The winter snow and the summer sun
I’m in God…God’s in me
Throughout the long eternity
If death should take me from life’s stride
I know that I’ll return again
I am the ever changing tide
I am the essence of all men
I am the Moon to light your way
I am the sun to warm the Earth
I was a child of yesterday
I am the miracle of birth
The mysteries of all the Earth
Are hidden deep within my soul
I come from death and end in birth
I am a part…I am the whole
God and man, they are one
The winter snow and the summer sun
I'm in God, God's in me
Throughout the long eternity
“If God lived on Earth, people would
break his windows’”……….Fiddler on the Roof
“God is a comedian playing to an audience
who are afraid to laugh”……….Voltaire
0
I agree with Dawkins's stances on atheism but I hate how he can be a prick. It is one thing to think all religion is bunk but quite another to post it on a religious site during their holiday, as he did about Islam during Ramadan. Also, Islamophobia is often thinly veiled racism. eg. I have been amazed at how much some people suddenly care so much about how an animal is killed for food if it is halal but never said a word about kosher. Also, it is really easy for white supremacists to jump on anti-Islamic comments and subvert them for their own purposes.
273kelvin
Level 8
Mar 10, 2023
0
The accusations of racism baffles me as virtually all north African and central European countries have a proportion of Muslims so how can criticism of Islam be racist.
@Moravian Whilst it is true that there are some central European countries that are Islamic. Most Muslims hail from places where the skin is of a darker hue. Pakistan, Bangladesh, Turkey, Sudan, Syria etc. So a racist thug can say; "Oh I've no problem with skin tone. I just firebombed that halal shop because Im an animal lover". Okay maybe firebomb is a bit strong but I have heard these idiots go on about halal food on a hotel's menu.
@David1955 Well Dawkins grew up in the same country as I did, with an established religion and the momentum HAS swung towards us at majority "no religion". Btw that includes Muslims at 6.5% of pop.
The same sense of good manners that would prevent me from being a prick about my atheism, prevents my Christian and Muslim friends from doing the same.
Richard Dawkins defending a religion, any religion ... that HAS to be a lie.
Normanbites
Level 7
Mar 10, 2023
0
Ryo1:
Ryo1:
If you think the point of the original post is about Dawkins defending religion, you're missing the whole point, mate.
Yes he does does he?:
[twitter.com]
Someone not Dawkins: “I honestly don't know what I would do if I were pregnant with a kid with Down Syndrome. Real ethical dilemma.”
RD: “Abort it and try again. It would be immoral to bring it into the world if you have the choice.”
Egads not going to quote:
[twitter.com]
followed by:
[twitter.com]
[twitter.com]
“Of course you can have an opinion about Islam without having read Qur'an. You don't have to read Mein Kampf to have an opinion about nazism.”
[twitter.com]
“Living in a university it's easy to forget the mean IQ of the population at large is 100, & 50% of them are in the bottom half.”
[twitter.com]
“Oh NO. Just checked my privilege. Turns out I'm a white heterosexual male. [campusreform.org] How can I atone? Hair shirt? Flagellation?”
[twitter.com]
“Bin Laden has won, in airports of the world every day. I had a little jar of honey, now thrown away by rule-bound dundridges. STUPID waste.”
[twitter.com]
“It’s one thing to deplore eugenics on ideological, political, moral grounds. It’s quite another to conclude that it wouldn’t work in practice. Of course it would. It works for cows, horses, pigs, dogs & roses. Why on earth wouldn’t it work for humans? Facts ignore ideology.”
And for real fun look up the infamous “Dear Muslima”…
@Ryo1
Religion was used as a tool also. for Germany was a strong Christian nation in 1st ans 2nd world war as Hitler was born and died as a catholic. Although I agree with Dawkins that nationalism is more dangerous than religion. I think centroism does more harm than good.
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