What is or isn't attractive is learned and has changed over time. In the middle ages plumpness was considered ideal. In Samoa, to this day, fat is considered to be attractive. ideals of beauty are cultural and learned. They can be unlearned too, where peopel just accept each other for who they are instead of an unrealistic ideal driven by advertising.

To me not feeling ashamed of one's own body is an ideal worth fighting for. It goes a logn way towards good self esteem to accept oneself as is.

@snytiger6 , ppl accepting their bodies the way they are is destroying your health care system.
the # of obese, & morbidly obese ppl in the US is astonishing. a high % of ppl with C19 are obese & die. they end up on ventilators & the hospitals charge obsene amounts of money to keep them alive but many don't make it.

@callmedubious Ironically, it is often the lack of self acceptance that leads people to eat to the point of obesity. Because they don't accept themselves, they eat to get some emotional satisfaction.

If you look at a country like Germany, were nudity is a lto mroe accepted, peopel there dont' over eat so mcuh.

Also, a good part of obasity in America is the lack of nutrition in the goods they eat. When a food is poor in nutrients but high in calories, a person eats more of it because the body doesn't stop being constantly hungry until its nutritional needs are met, and you can't get nutrition form junk food.

@snytiger6 , i was stationed in germany for 3/12 yrs & while there were many hefty deutchers at that time (early 1980s) i didn't really notice many that would be considered obese.
i think a lot of that has to do with the German's love of the outdoors. they have trails everywhere & love to get out & "wander" as they refer to it.
you're right about the poor nutrition.

I've seen video of topless women walking around New York (being topless is legal there), and although the videos seem to indicate that mos tpeople just ignore it, I am sure there is always those few people who do mess it up often enough to keep others from feeling safe and comfortable doing it themselves.

I know in Portland (OR), where I have been on several naked bike rides, the peopel generally just shrug and go on with their lives.

Hygenic concerns seems to be pretty universal. However puttign that aside, I think peopel shoudl have the choice of whether or not to wear clothing, rather than have clothing be required by law (for other than hygienic reasons).

You're hygiene argument is ridiculous. People wipe their ass, hold their penis after urinating - all with their hands. Yet we shake hands with people without being disgusted, we open door that people have touched, we handle money that has been circulating in the community daily. Hell, I bet most of use have even participated in a work or social pot luck, with no concern about the cleanliness of the person's home that brought the food. Hygiene issues are more mental than actually founded.

[slate.com]
[besafemeds.com]

@jondspen There’s a difference between what you don’t know, and what you do know. If I did know that someone hadn’t washed their hands, or other necessary bits, after going to the loo, I wouldn’t touch them. If I knew someone’s kitchen was a cess pit, I wouldn’t eat or drink anything they’d touched, let alone cooked.

We do worry overmuch about hygiene, but there are limits. If you’d be happy to sit where someone else’s shitty arse had been, good luck to you. But I’m wouldn’t be. And I’m allowed.

@KevinTwining Again, most people I know use toilette paper, and don't have an inch of shit smeared across their ass, so your argument isn't really based on reality. Plus, even when I sit in a chair to get dressed, my A hole isn't all up on the cushion. Maybe people with extreme flat asses have this problem, but most people I know have their anus in a crack that doesn't directly touch the chair. And the only difference between knowing there is microscopic shit on a bathroom doorknob and not knowing when you touch it - is that you don't know. Same microbs still get on your hand. But thank you for replying without any data or references, just your opinion. That make so much better an argument than my two links.

@jondspen Give it up mate. You’re becoming tiresome.

@jondspen in the "today" of diseases that cannot be cured, spread by bodily fluids, you are an IDIOT!!!!!

[slate.com]
[besafemeds.com]

Unfounded fear

@jondspen yeah, okay,I took care of my brother in law as he died of AIDS, 6'3" , 83lbs at the end. You can bet your ass after cleaning up fountains of bodily fluids as he wasted away over 6 months, I got tested! Clothing is a sanitary barrier, just look at how operating room personnel are dressed, for the protection of Everyone in there.

For persons who have nto experienced social nudity, but have only been naked either for sex or bathing, a first time social nudity experience may cause a man to inadvertantly get hard, because the body has been conditioned to think "naked equals sex". I myself spent the first few minutes at a nude beach laying on my stomach until the problem went away. Then I got used to being naked, and never had such an issue again.

So yeah, it hapens. Generally nudist etiquette says that you just ignore it and do nothign to draw attention to it and let it go away on its own.

personally I prefer nudist clubs to nude beachees. Much different atmosphere.

You can always take care of yourself beforehand.

It might happen at first, but like most things, you become numb to it. After a while it's just another set of tits. Honestly, you can see almost everything at most beaches today anyway with some bikinis. Do you keep a raging boner at the beach all day when and if you go?

Well, yes. Being able to choose is the whole point.

Nice to know that Colorado is pregressive i some places. I knew Boulder ws progressive, but had the impression that the rest of th state was mired in conservatism.

I do like to hear about the bible thumpers being beaten back, and human rights trumping religious dogmas.

I've done the Portland (OR) World Naked Bike Ride a few times, which attracts over 10,000 riders each year. Some peopel may use soem kind of set cover, but I've never seen a special seat used.

In Oregon many years ago, an Oregon State Supreme Court ruling ruled that nudity was a right under the state's constitution. People won't get arrested for indecent exposure, but can get arrested for creating a public disturbance. However, if being nude is a part of a protest, such as the Portland World Naked Bike Ride (which attracts over 10,000 participants each year), then it takes more than just nudity to be arrested.

Anyway, my point is that although it is technically legal to be nude, peopel use discretion about using that freedom.

If public nhudity were legal, and seeign nude persons were nto so uncommon, then it wodl no longer be distracting for drivers.

It is true that not everyone woudl be fitowever, I think it is more of a question of beign free to choose whether or nto to wear clothing, and not for the entertainment of other people when one chooses not to.

To say you can't do that because of MY discomfort, means you want to limit the freedoms of others based on your own hang ups. I am nto tryign to make any acusions here, but just trying to turn things a bit so you might see things from a different perspective.

We are taught to feel guilt fear and shame associated with nudity, and most of that teaching originally was based in religious dogma. Few peopel have actually questioned if there is any actual reasoning behind the cultural norm of always being clothed in public at all times. As everyone knows what everyoen else has under their clothes, why do we go to such great lengths to hideit from each other?

I agree with you. Not only do clothes protect the wearer from the elements, clothing on others can protect us from them. What if they didnt wipe well and sit in public. So the next person sits in feces. Or you have a bladder leak? And clothing also helps conceal smells. Keep your clothes on??

You make a lot of good points. As a person who studied Xociology in college, I know that if you try to change to omuch too quickly in any society it causes more problems than it solves Societies have to change gradually over time.

I have talked about ridign in the Portland ((OR) World Naked Bike Ride many times. The ride attracts over 10,000 participants every year. I've never heard of any misconeduct among participants,and I have lived in the area for 8 years now. If there is misconduct, it is from those who aren't riding, but just watching. Because of this the route of the ride is different each year and ketp secret, so only the organizers and local police know the route until the actual ride begins.

I am aware that at the local nudist clubs, which are clothing optional, that in the "wet areas", meaning pool jacuzzi, steam rooms and saunas, nudity 9si required. The reasoning beign that when you mix clothed and nude people in those areas, if anyone misbehaves, it is almost always the clothed persons.

It woule seem that those who feel too insucre to be nude themselves, are the ones who strike out at those who are secure with themselves and are comfortable in their own skin. A behavior which religion reinforces.

In any case, there is a Naturist and Nudists group on this site int he groups section. [agnostic.com]

I admit I did have hope society was changing to better accetp public nudity whenh Young Naturists of Amerca was formed, but the people runnign the organization burne dout as many who run nonprofits do, and the organization sadly folded. However that it did so well while it was going does sugest a change in attitudes of younger generations.

I enjoy being nude, and do so as often as is practical, but I don't do it outside. Scotlands climate seldom allows conditions conducive for the activity. Midges would just kill you too.

At nudist clubs those dont' seem to be problems, as nudists are generally bery courteous and considerate of each other.

In society at large it could be a problem as not everyone would be considerate enough huygeniocally for there not to be some laws, such as carrying placing a towel on a seat tht is for general public use. before sitting if one is nude and wish to make use of public seating. For every problem there are multiple solutions.