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Should public nudity be legal?

The AANR (American Association for Nude Recreation) has the view that public nudity should be legal as long as the person is not doing anything with the intent of sexually arousing either themselves or anyone else.

The most stated reason by members is to get over "body shame", because doing so helps boost self esteem and confidence. There have been studies showing that children raised in nudist family have higher self esteem and confidence and are just generally more comfortable with who they are as a person.

On the other side there are those persons who seek out nude beaches and nudist events who have seual agendas. AANR nudist clubs don't tolerate such persons, and forcibly remove them shoudl they show up. I refer to such persons as "swingers" because they seem to fit the swinger lifestyle more than they do the nudist lifestyule

However, as a point of freedom. A freedom of expression, which does tno do harm to anyone, shoudl public nudity be legal? As atheists are nto burdened with religious mores , I was just wondering what the people here think?

I am a natuirst (nudist) and I have ridden the Portland (OR) World Naked Bike Ride, which has over 10,000 participants each year, and I have gone on nude hikes, visited clothing optional beaches

So, what are your thoughts?

snytiger6 9 Oct 18
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308 comments (276 - 300)

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0

There is no need for laws about this. The human is what it is and we were not given clothes to wear by anybody. But please apply some common sense. If you think you have private parts then keep them private. If you want to teach your kids to feel they have privacy be a role model.

As to bike rides being nude. It sounds more like a silly protest than common sense. No real reason to do it unless you don't have money for clothes (but have money for a bike).

Stig Level 5 Oct 24, 2018

The World Nake dBike Ride is a protest against our continued use of fossil fuels. It is fun, an dyes, it can be silly at times, but a clothed bike ride would not gain the same publicity about the issue. It is a veyr low bost way to gain publicity for protests in oruj society.

@snytiger6 That's for a good cause.

How do you nude bikers deal with the bugs? Its bad enough with a shirt and shorts. But dealing with them down yonder whilst pedaling?

2

Born naked, if you don't want wear cloth least make it optional,the weather itself will let you know what or what not to wear

4

Yes, but only for people I personally deem attractive. Now we sit back and wait for the comments from those who have no sense of humor...

1

I do not believe Public nudity should be legal, I do not know if this could cause more sexually attributed crimes, or perhaps Less

If you do not know if it would decrease sexual crimes then why would you be against it?

1

Female breasts have non-functional (no milk) fatty flesh. This flesh is there purely as an indicator of reproductive ability. So public nudity should not be legal.

I tend to side with New York court rulings as far as going shirtless goes. If a man can go shirless, a woman should be able to also.

I have been told tht in Arkansas they wen the other way, and made it illegal for men to go shirtless too.

I am in agreement that the law shoudl be equal for both genders, but not that the law should be able to regulate the freedom in deciding whether or not to wear clothing. So, long as the person is nto beign sexually provocative (taking actions with the intent of sexually arousing either themselves or anyone else), laws that require clothing go against the freedom of speech and expression, guaranteed to U.S. citizens under the bill of rights.

@snytiger6 1st Males and females are different, so the sexes can NEVER be equal (no matter how much you wish.) 2nd Freedom of speech does not guarantee the freedom of expression. The current trend of expanding the 1st amendment is being used to give corporations power to do as they chose.

@PhilipK Well, at least we seem to be in agreement in a dislike of hte idea of corporate personhood. It has been my impression that coporations latest arguements do inclues tryign to co-op the freedom of expresion to further the concept of corporate personhood, but I do not think that freedom of expresion shoudl be curtailed for actual people to try ot thwart their efforts.

I am more for the strategy of makign it so that the constitution does not aply to artifical persons. The way corporations got a foothold onto the constitution, was because the original tax system was designed to tax people. rather the add on the taxation of coporate entities, they made coporations "artificial people" for taxation purposes. Ever sine the rise of the railroads, coporations have been tryign to extend constitutional rights to "artificial people".

Before the Civil War all coporations had limited lifespans by law. Most states had a limiation of a 20 year lifespan, and I think one had a 50 year lifsapn (it's been a while since I looked at this). The reasons for this was because of the East india Co0mpany, which had a royual monoploy granted from England before the revolutionary war, which le the East India company import to the American colonies tax free, while small businesses were heavily taxed. Thsi led firs tot he Boston Tea party protest, and eventually the Americna Revolution, because American did nto want to be under coporate rule, and be unfairly taxed. Thus the phrase Taxation without representation" became a motto for the revolution.

It too almos t100 years, but eventually coporations were granted unlimitede lifetimes, because everyone who lived under soporate rule before the American revolytion was dead and nobody alive remembered what it was like.

However, today, peopel are once again learnign wht it is like... some more than others.

@snytiger6 Thanks for the detailed response. "thwart their efforts" Can you name an issue that MUST have the ability to argue with expression beyond words? Where is (speech) expression required?

@PhilipK Freedom of speech is synonymous with freedom of expression.

What do breasts have to do with reproductive ability?

@mooredolezal I am not keeping up with human evolution stuff. Breast indicate how much female reproductive potential a woman has.

1

Absolutely. I often think of how convenient it would be to walk out of my house naked get in my car and run my errands on a nice summer day. Clothing requirements are ridiculous. Actually here in Ohio, women can go topless in public. A woman filed suit based on gender equality, as men were allowed to be topless so should women. I guess we are halfway there.

A similar lawsuit won in New York a while back too.

I heard that in order to head off such a law suit in Arkansas, they made it illegal for men to go shirtless/topless.

4

I’m a fan. I like the idea of less laundry, lol!

Yes, when I became a nudist the amount of my laudry was greatly reduced. Also my clothes just generally lasted longer. So, I save money on detergents, on guying new clohtes for those that wear out and on energy and water costs, because of less laudray.

Naturism is definitely a green lifestyle.

1

Heck no. It's bad enough already. Imagine having to look at that. If you want to go nude in private or at certain beaches!

0

We are all nude under our clothes, so once the sexualisation is removed, where is the real harm?
Sticky bum prints on plastic seats? Slightly damp farts? Personal cleanliness and dribbly bits? Unexpected arousal? Knocking things over with bits of body? Unwanted contact? Shedding of hairs? Freezer/chilled compartments (ladies).... Sorry I keep finding problems

I enjoy being nude, and do so as often as is practical, but I don't do it outside. Scotlands climate seldom allows conditions conducive for the activity. Midges would just kill you too.

At nudist clubs those dont' seem to be problems, as nudists are generally bery courteous and considerate of each other.

In society at large it could be a problem as not everyone would be considerate enough huygeniocally for there not to be some laws, such as carrying placing a towel on a seat tht is for general public use. before sitting if one is nude and wish to make use of public seating. For every problem there are multiple solutions.

2

Good post and good question.

I, too, am a nudist (naturalist), but seldom am I naked. I live with roommates who would not be comfortable with me walking around without clothes on. My last roommate didn't care as much and had seen me naked (at a nude establishment twice) previously to us deciding to be roommates. So he's seen my stuff and I've seen his. Who cares? He did care sometimes and sometimes he didn't. I've never lived with a fellow naturalist.
So I keep my clothes on. Keeps people comfortable.

Public nudity, I believe, is a very healthy thing. The statistics you shared have been backed up multiple times by numerous studies. But are Americans ready to accept public nudity? Without question, the answer is a definitive no. Not even close to being ready. And I blame religion and insecurities inflicted by society (fueled partially advertising) for this.

The Bible teaches people to be shameful of their bodies. The "flesh" is a temptation that leads to evil. And to many, whether religious or not, a naked body is a sexual object. Not a healthy viewpoint, but it is a popular one.

I think many are afraid of the fine lines that might be crossed if public nudity became legal. If I may speak for men specifically for a moment. Let's suppose public nudity is written into law. If a man adjusts himself, is it a crime? If a man gets an accidental hard on in public, is he breaking the law? Is it harmful for children to see naked adults? Only if they are taught it is wrong. And they are taught that it is wrong. In a society that requires everyone to be clothed in public, it is the naked man who is a potential threat. That belief wouldn't go away in a generation if laws did change.

And what about one's own insecurities? People can't seem to get passed the fact that some people are slimmer than others, endowments vary from person to person, and everyone isn't beautiful under those layers of clothing. As naturalists, we know that isn't the point. Changing laws would actually, as you stated, would lessen insecurities. But not for this generation, I suspect. Positive self-esteem results wouldn't be seen until the first generation children born into a society where nothing is optional became adults. Americans are far from being that patient for results for anything. That, and for religious reasons, is why public nudity will never become permissible by law. But should it be law? Yes, I believe so. But, with current widely held beliefs, the belief that public nudity could create dangerous situations could result in self- fulfilling prophecy. Too many in our society believe nudity is a sexual thing. Since this brief is so widely accepted, it means it is also accepted by those who would cause harm. Unethical Exhibitionists and predators would halt any chance for public nudity to continue as permissible by law, even if it initially passed in the first place.

Numerous initial horror stories would force the law to be repealed. There just isn't enough time for public opinion and deep-seated beliefs to change. A law allowing public nudity would most likely produce the biggest outcry in American history. The unhealthy beliefs of the past thousands of years is deeply rooted in the minds of too many for there to even be a chance such a proposed bill would make it off the desk of a politician thinking of suggesting it to fellow Congress or Senate members. Such a rebel would undoubtedly be voted out of office when the time came or soon be removed from office.

So we, as a society, are stuck with our unhealthy body images and the Biblical teaching that man (people) should be ashamed of their nakedness. These perceptions aren't going away any time soon. And the very real fear of abuse is too prevalent for many to differentiate between potential danger and freedom of being without clothes.

Maybe it would work in some of the more atheistic countries in the world. Maybe. But, in the United States? It will never happen. Which is unfortunate. The results would show an increase in improved body image and be a freer way to live for many. But the positive results would be many years coming. And Americans and the citizens of other repressive countries with religious belief are way too impatient to wait around for over a generation to see a change in public opinion. If a change doesn't show immediate positive results, it will never happen.

Good post

Jeff ?

You make a lot of good points. As a person who studied Xociology in college, I know that if you try to change to omuch too quickly in any society it causes more problems than it solves Societies have to change gradually over time.

I have talked about ridign in the Portland ((OR) World Naked Bike Ride many times. The ride attracts over 10,000 participants every year. I've never heard of any misconeduct among participants,and I have lived in the area for 8 years now. If there is misconduct, it is from those who aren't riding, but just watching. Because of this the route of the ride is different each year and ketp secret, so only the organizers and local police know the route until the actual ride begins.

I am aware that at the local nudist clubs, which are clothing optional, that in the "wet areas", meaning pool jacuzzi, steam rooms and saunas, nudity 9si required. The reasoning beign that when you mix clothed and nude people in those areas, if anyone misbehaves, it is almost always the clothed persons.

It woule seem that those who feel too insucre to be nude themselves, are the ones who strike out at those who are secure with themselves and are comfortable in their own skin. A behavior which religion reinforces.

In any case, there is a Naturist and Nudists group on this site int he groups section. [agnostic.com]

I admit I did have hope society was changing to better accetp public nudity whenh Young Naturists of Amerca was formed, but the people runnign the organization burne dout as many who run nonprofits do, and the organization sadly folded. However that it did so well while it was going does sugest a change in attitudes of younger generations.

3

Not everywhere. But every region/country should give options for nudists/naturalists as well as a human right. So people could decide if they want to go to pure nudist or mixed outdoor places. Who don‘t want to see nakedness could stay away from these places. Live and let live.

Yucel Level 3 Dec 10, 2018
2

Only in certain areas (nudist resorts, nudist beaches, etc.) It should not be allowed everywhere. Clothing protects us from the elements.

If public nhudity were legal, and seeign nude persons were nto so uncommon, then it wodl no longer be distracting for drivers.

It is true that not everyone woudl be fitowever, I think it is more of a question of beign free to choose whether or nto to wear clothing, and not for the entertainment of other people when one chooses not to.

To say you can't do that because of MY discomfort, means you want to limit the freedoms of others based on your own hang ups. I am nto tryign to make any acusions here, but just trying to turn things a bit so you might see things from a different perspective.

We are taught to feel guilt fear and shame associated with nudity, and most of that teaching originally was based in religious dogma. Few peopel have actually questioned if there is any actual reasoning behind the cultural norm of always being clothed in public at all times. As everyone knows what everyoen else has under their clothes, why do we go to such great lengths to hideit from each other?

I agree with you. Not only do clothes protect the wearer from the elements, clothing on others can protect us from them. What if they didnt wipe well and sit in public. So the next person sits in feces. Or you have a bladder leak? And clothing also helps conceal smells. Keep your clothes on??

2

It's distracting especially if you're driving. On the other hand it would get people off their phones. I think people forget that acceptance of public nudity is democratic so in addition to shapely females and buff males you also have to be willing to put up with grandma and grandpa and all kinds of two tons of fun.

2

Legal, yes. Practiced, yes but with discretion.

In Oregon many years ago, an Oregon State Supreme Court ruling ruled that nudity was a right under the state's constitution. People won't get arrested for indecent exposure, but can get arrested for creating a public disturbance. However, if being nude is a part of a protest, such as the Portland World Naked Bike Ride (which attracts over 10,000 participants each year), then it takes more than just nudity to be arrested.

Anyway, my point is that although it is technically legal to be nude, peopel use discretion about using that freedom.

1

It would be the end of Burningman lol

1

Yup!

1

Yes. As long as it hurts no one, people should legally be allowed to do whatever they want. If you prefer to wear clothes, fine. If you think you look better or feel better with or without, go for it. The nudity taboo and laws, like many things in this country, are expressions of the deeply-rooted patriarchical authoritarian church. It's so deeply rooted that many of us can't distinguish what we really feel from what has been beaten into us by the oppressors.

ErikK Level 6 Jan 17, 2019
1

I think the human body is beautiful and we shouldn’t hide it. Hiding something creates a “taboo” about that thing, in this case the human body, such that it can cause shame. I’m for ppl going nude...I just won’t do it because I’m full of that body shame. Lol

2

Disagree, peoples ass and genitals should be covered in public places.

0

Hell, no. Since age 15 when I developed breasts, I have been catcalled, grabbed, molested, nearly raped, forcibly kissed, sexually assaulted, stalked, raped in 2008, and sexually harassed by men. Nudity would make it much worse.

I want the protection of clothing.

In Hawaii, my date took me to a nude beach without telling me in advance. I wore a bikini. Three-quarters of the people were men trolling for naked women. Ugh.

2

I love to go skinny-dipping. My body moving through the water feels wonderful but not sexual in any way. When it comes to dry land my feet need protection and arch supports. I can't imagine riding a bicycle naked. Surely naked bike riders have a special seat because the bicycle seats I've seen would be dangerous. In other words, I like the protection of clothing When I visit most places.

I've done the Portland (OR) World Naked Bike Ride a few times, which attracts over 10,000 riders each year. Some peopel may use soem kind of set cover, but I've never seen a special seat used.

2

This is how the law near my hometown in Colorado looks at going topless anyway. "Female toplessness is allowed in the cities of Denver, Fort Collins and Boulder, since these cities do not make any distinction between female toplessness and male bare chested". Drives the bible thumpers nuts. They keep taking it to court...and the court rulings keep slapping them down. Quite a few legal social nudity places in the US and World: [en.wikipedia.org]

Nice to know that Colorado is pregressive i some places. I knew Boulder ws progressive, but had the impression that the rest of th state was mired in conservatism.

I do like to hear about the bible thumpers being beaten back, and human rights trumping religious dogmas.

1

The question was should it be legal not should it be compulsory lol ???

Well, yes. Being able to choose is the whole point.

2

I do believe it should be legal but i am also honest enough to say that i would be afraid of embarrassing myself due to arousal. I would feel that i was being discourteous, even though it was an involuntary action lol. The hope would be i suppose that familiarity would breed contempt. But in the initial stages it would be hard (cheap pun i couldn't resist ?).

For persons who have nto experienced social nudity, but have only been naked either for sex or bathing, a first time social nudity experience may cause a man to inadvertantly get hard, because the body has been conditioned to think "naked equals sex". I myself spent the first few minutes at a nude beach laying on my stomach until the problem went away. Then I got used to being naked, and never had such an issue again.

So yeah, it hapens. Generally nudist etiquette says that you just ignore it and do nothign to draw attention to it and let it go away on its own.

personally I prefer nudist clubs to nude beachees. Much different atmosphere.

You can always take care of yourself beforehand.

It might happen at first, but like most things, you become numb to it. After a while it's just another set of tits. Honestly, you can see almost everything at most beaches today anyway with some bikinis. Do you keep a raging boner at the beach all day when and if you go?

1

I think that if men are allowed to go shirtless, women should too. The prohibition against female nipples is just absurd. That said, most of us are probably better off keeping our shirts on.

The covering of genitals for both sexes seems sensible though, more to limit the the behavior of men, for whom a display full nudity could be an act of aggression and harassment or even abuse.

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