Thank you. You words align with pictures in my head that I find difficult to articulate.

I am glad one of us got a good night's sleep.

What little I remember about it, yeah, I thought his "roadmap" was pure fantasy.

@Omots I honestly know next to nothing about the history of socialism in scandinavia. I would be interested in learning the keys to their democratic socialism success. Obviously they have free enterprise and participate in world markets, etc., but they have figured out how to regulate in a way that prioritizes a healthy basic social safety net, and that seems to have been impressively successful for them.

I have this feeling that functioning political and economic systems depend in part on the cultural values of the society supporting them. I fear that in the U.S., despite our proud flag-waving patriotic proclamations about how wonderfully democratic we are, in reality our deep Puritan roots promote a rather alarming attraction to charismatic "heros" who promise unrealistic rewards for little public effort. We are too quick to cede authority to a single executive leader promising us some vague economic "victory." We are weak on mechanisms for real accountability by our elected officials, let alone the massively wealthy power brokers behind the scenes, who shovel buttloads of money at Congress to be able to steer legislative agendas.

I imagine Finland or Norway citizens and officials simply having no tolerance for political bullies, while we here in the U.S. reward swaggering assholes.

@MikeInBatonRouge I did a paper a couple semesters ago on the one percent and had to compare socialism and capitalism. China ranked first in the socialist category, but I eliminated them because they are authoritarian. Finland is the only totally socialist country that did not have the authoritarian assholes. They ranked in the top ten in happiness, healthcare, and education. The latter two are totally free. They felt they were freer than us because they could pursue pretty much whatever education they wanted, and had no fear of going bankrupt because of medical bills. Everyone got the same medical care no matter their social status. Everyone is treated equally. They are behind the US in innovation. Since Trump has been in power I have thought about running away to a place like Finland. No. This is my country, and I am not going to let him win. Got to make a stand sometimes. We are so dysfunctional though. Unless our legislative branch reclaims their authority, I do not see how things are not going to continue going downward. The top ten percent will control what we believe. Working on my soapbox speech. I have always wondered how the government comes up with their numbers saying the economy is doing good when I see no change in the communities that I have lived in. Burst my bubble, please. I really want to work on my confidence.

and he was long winded?

@Omots Finnish, socially secure, sure! But Happy??? I thought happiness violated their code against "flagrant" public displays of emotion, ...or something

@MikeInBatonRouge grass is always greener on the other side. I just wish Americans weren’t so arrogant. There are things we can learn from others.

@Omots YES!!!!! This whole "national pride" thing always annoyed me, because true confidence and appreciation for your "tribe" does not necessitate you blowing your own horn boastfully, nor denigrating others. We should be able to say "Hey, awesome job, guys!" to our reference group without belaboring the notion of being "better THAN" someone else. Why is the put-down necessary?

@MikeInBatonRouge "National Pride" - I have an issue with the "New World Order" platitude. When I first heard that - I thought it was a death toll for our country. Whoever has been at the top of that order has always been replaced in time. For me it is "Humanity First" more than"America First." I think that is a socialist mantra.

@Omots well there you go, you are a socialist. How does it feel to hate your country? You probably don't even pray like a proper American! ? ?

The route you suggest reminds me of Animal Farm. Whoever makes the corporations subservient will, in the end, be like the pigs in that story. They will walk on two legs like equals with the men of the corporations that remain. I do not believe fairness is attainable, and I accept that as a reality I must cope with. I use to believe that government, through regulations, was a way to protect the people from the "gross favoritism" and "gross discrimination." The pigs have taken over. I am at a loss and confused as to the direction. Groupthink destroys everything.

I think I just depressed myself. 3 am is not a good time for me to be doing this.

@Omots 3 am isn't. Get some sleep and come back refreshed. Switch the phone off.
Dream on this however - corporations and companies are merely paper entities to protect the liability of the investors. However the investors are ultimately, without exception PEOPLE/HUMAN BEINGS. Giving them a godlike status of immunity from the wrong doing of the people that they employ to run them is the same as giving religions freedom from taxation in secular societies. I also recently learned that here in Australia there is legislation for each of the major religions. The one that I had need to investigate was under an act that granted it the right to do whatever it wanted irrespective of it being contrary to any other Australian law! Ie. Their actions were only answerable to their god.
Goodnight, have a good sleep - try remembering what white noise looks like on an old black and white tv!

@FrayedBear I do remember that noise.

@Omots Its great for clearing your mind of unwanted thoughts in order to enable sleep.

My metaphor is that capitalism is a pyramid scheme. The top gets everything, and the people on the bottom have no chance. Why people hold onto this dream/lie of the American dream, I don't understand. The pure form can only exist if people can be trusted to be honorable, and not self-serving. Yeah, right. I do not believe in communism because the classless society is a fantasy. I do believe in evolution, and I feel socialistic ideas is the best hope of keeping the concept of having a fairer society alive until the next theory emerges. The people at the bottom of the pyramid deserve better. Finland is all socialist, and one of the happiest nations in the world. Innovation suffers because of that. Is that really bad?

that is pretty good. and concise. and correct, mind if i quote you

Big help you are

Thank you though. I do worry that I live in a bubble.

@Omots You must be one of those edumacated elites, that Fox News is always referring to as a scare tactic for their viewers.

@MikeInBatonRouge I just have a simple concept that seems to scare people. It's the details I don't have an answer for. I see the goal, I just don't know how to get there. The first step is to conquer the fear. That is as far as I have gotten.